9 hours ago, Credo said:

I pretty much lean toward renewable energy and moving away from our dependence on fossil fuels,

YOUR dependence on fossil fuels ....... some of us have solar power.

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

YOUR dependence on fossil fuels ....... some of us have solar power.

Yea, I still wonder why people are waiting for the govt or utility company to lead the way ... as they've proven their failure to do so over and over again.

 

Want something done, and done right ... DIY ????

... or in my case, have it installed ????

On 10/7/2022 at 1:27 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

With the increase in prices this year I suspect per capita electricity use to be very much lower through the coming winter than it was the last.

It should decrease even when prices go down. It's quite clear that many people are using too much and even wasting energy.

 

The recent price cap capped an "average" household bill at £2500 a year. Our power bill for the past year was a little over £650. We've received correspondence from our provider estimating our bill will increase to a little over £820.

 

If the average is £2500, there are people out there using serious amounts of energy.

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

It should decrease even when prices go down. It's quite clear that many people are using too much and even wasting energy.

 

The recent price cap capped an "average" household bill at £2500 a year. Our power bill for the past year was a little over £650. We've received correspondence from our provider estimating our bill will increase to a little over £820.

 

If the average is £2500, there are people out there using serious amounts of energy.

Alternatively we can see what one of the major energy companies has to say in the matter: 

 

1~2 people living in a flat or 2 bedroom house:

 

Annual consumption: Gas - 8000KWh; Electricity 1800KWh

 

Annual Cost: £1712.25

_____

2~3 people living in a 3 bedroom house

 

Annual consumption: Gas 12000KWh; Electricity 2900KWh

Annual Cost £2499.87

 

_______
 

4~5 people living in a five bedroom house

 

Annual consumption: Gas 17000KWh; Electricity 4300KWh 

 

Annual Cost £3492.90

 

 

I wonder who we should believe.

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/energy/guides/average-bill.html

 

 

wrong.

Edited October 8, 20223 yr by BritManToo

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

I wonder who we should believe.

 

 

You really do make me laugh. Anything you disagree with or don't understand has to be a lie. Very funny.

 

It may surprise you but this is not a p$#ing competition. There is mo winner or lower. I posted a fact. If you don't believe it then scroll on by. Don't bother with your veiled accusations.

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wonder who we should believe.

Nobody ... would think people would simply look at their own past use and bills paid.  Assess and plan.

 

No such thing as average.  My PEA bill was certainly higher than other in my old neighborhoods, in TH & USA.

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

You really do make me laugh. Anything you disagree with or don't understand has to be a lie. Very funny.

 

It may surprise you but this is not a p$#ing competition. There is mo winner or lower. I posted a fact. If you don't believe it then scroll on by. Don't bother with your veiled accusations.

I didn’t accuse you of lying, I simply compared hat you said with verifiable facts, don’t blame me for the discrepancy.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Nobody ... would think people would simply look at their own past use and bills paid.  Assess and plan.

 

No such thing as average.  My PEA bill was certainly higher than other in my old neighborhoods, in TH & USA.

But we do not have the reference bills (and anyway did you notice bills have rocketed in an upwards trajectory), what we do have is a verifiable statement from a major energy company that provides average bills v occupancy and dwelling together with a basis for their calculation.

 

To be fair, British Gas have not provided an example for a mansion nor a mobile home, but they have provided examples that cover the vast majority of UK homes.

 

 

Edited October 8, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But we do not have the reference bills (and anyway did you notice bills have rocketed in an upwards trajectory), what we do have is a verifiable statement from a major energy company that provides average bills v occupancy and dwelling together with a basis for their calculation.

 

To be fair, British Gas have not provided an example for a mansion nor a mobile home, but they have provided examples that cover the vast majority of UK homes.

 

 

OK. Here are the details. As you can see, out DD is £50 per month. You'll also notice the credit we have.

Edited October 8, 20223 yr by puchooay

6 hours ago, puchooay said:

OK. Here are the details. As you can see, out DD is £50 per month. You'll also notice the credit we have.

Fixed £50 per month and your ‘balance’ adjusted each time you make a payment.

 

It does not mean you are using £50 per month.

 

Keep an eye on your balance.

 

 

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Fixed £50 per month and your ‘balance’ adjusted each time you make a payment.

 

It does not mean you are using £50 per month.

 

Keep an eye on your balance.

 

 

Oh dear. This has been going on for a long-time. Previously our monthly payments were £39 a month. They have been adjusted accordingly. SSE are happy that we are paying enough to cover our bills. That is what they do. Attached is our monthly usage.

 

You are correct that we have not been using £50 a month. That is why out credit is over £200. Given that we are about to start receiving £66 a month from the government scheme awarding £400 to each household, our credit is likely to increase.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by puchooay

 

31 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Oh dear. This has been going on for a long-time. Previously our monthly payments were £39 a month. They have been adjusted accordingly. SSE are happy that we are paying enough to cover our bills. That is what they do. Attached is our monthly usage.

 

You are correct that we have not been using £50 a month. That is why out credit is over £200. Given that we are about to start receiving £66 a month from the government scheme awarding £400 to each household, our credit is likely to increase.

So you personally are consuming considerably less than the national average.

 

That doesn’t in anyway make the averages published by energy companies wrong, nor disprove that millions are struggling to pay their energy bills 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

So you personally are consuming considerably less than the national average.

 

That doesn’t in anyway make the averages published by energy companies wrong, nor disprove that millions are struggling to pay their energy bills 

 

 

 

Thank you gor finally realising your precious links are not cast in stone figures.

 

I have never said the averages published were wrong. I've never said people aren't struggling.

 

What I did say was, with those published figures and the figures of our usage, I believe some households naybe use too much energy or even waste energy. If we are way below average, there must be some considerably above average. Simple mathematics.

 

It was you who posted " I wonder who we should believe"

 

Now that you have defended the averages published, I can only conclude you didnt believe what I posted. Now that I have proved I was telling the truth, you owe me an apology.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by puchooay

On 10/7/2022 at 10:43 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't think electricity shortages a problem that can be blamed on Truss.

I'd blame it on those who demanded 'green power' and closing 'nuke plants'.

With a bit of blame on those whom demand war with Russia.

So very true, there is no reason Britain should have to import fuel as the North Sea has more than enough supply. It is the wacko green globalists that caused this problem, not Truss.

On 10/7/2022 at 10:43 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't think electricity shortages a problem that can be blamed on Truss.

I'd blame it on those who demanded 'green power' and closing 'nuke plants'.

With a bit of blame on those whom demand war with Russia.

If the UK were not right now getting 43% of its energy from renewables it would be more reliant on fossil fuels, and therefore the current energy price crisis would be worse.

 

But agreed, Truss is not to be blamed for the energy price hike, though she is failing to do anything about windfall profits at cost to millions who are struggling to pay their bills.

19 minutes ago, Screaming said:

So very true, there is no reason Britain should have to import fuel as the North Sea has more than enough supply. It is the wacko green globalists that caused this problem, not Truss.

If the UK derived all its energy needs from North Sea Gas it would still be facing an energy price crisis.

 

The UK licensed the exploration and extraction of North Sea Gas to O&G companies and must buy the gas the UK needs at the international market price for gas.

 

So it doesn’t matter where the gas comes from, the price is the same.

 

Britain’s diversity into renewable energy supplies reduces reliance on imported energy and reduces the cost fluctuations that have arisen from Russia’s war of aggression.

 

 

troll post removed

It took a hundred years or so for brilliant minds to identify a cheap and efficient energy, and a way to get it. The world needs cheap energy to survive and flourish. I find it quite amazing that our present day, so called, great leaders say we have to do away with our known efficient energy namely oil. Perhaps it would be wise to wait until there is something to fill the gap! Renewable energy at present will not! So in other words, this is having the obvious results which will be hardship and death. Guess that's the idea.

27 minutes ago, 300sd said:

It took a hundred years or so for brilliant minds to identify a cheap and efficient energy, and a way to get it. The world needs cheap energy to survive and flourish. I find it quite amazing that our present day, so called, great leaders say we have to do away with our known efficient energy namely oil. Perhaps it would be wise to wait until there is something to fill the gap! Renewable energy at present will not! So in other words, this is having the obvious results which will be hardship and death. Guess that's the idea.

You might want to try and acquaint yourself with facts instead of subscribing to ancient dogma. Here's how the cost of renewables has declined in from 2009 to 2012:

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/

 

46 minutes ago, 300sd said:

I find it quite amazing that our present day, so called, great leaders say we have to do away with our known efficient energy namely oil.

Moving away from something that pollutes, causes climate warming and is finite seems eminently sensible to me.

 

Investing in renewable sources of energy is the way forward.

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You might want to try and acquaint yourself with facts instead of subscribing to ancient dogma. Here's how the cost of renewables has declined in from 2009 to 2012:

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/

 

You may want to acquaint yourself with the people who most likely will starve or freeze to death this winter. They are not important in the big picture are they?

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Moving away from something that pollutes, causes climate warming and is finite seems eminently sensible to me.

 

Investing in renewable sources of energy is the way forward.

I agree with you, although I'm not that sure about the climate warming part. Renewable energy is the way but, as I said, let's have something that can handle what the world needs before we take away what the world has.

On 10/7/2022 at 12:27 PM, BritManToo said:

I think there will almost certainly be power cuts.

Not only in the UK, but across Europe and the USA as well.

It's the only way the 'renewable energy' movement can end.

Texas was just the first of many electricity failing events to come.

And would have been likely even without the foolish war on Russia.

Power cuts affect everything, from food upwards.

 

Maybe the Brits will return to this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9wNJ78S2GY

 

7 minutes ago, 300sd said:

You may want to acquaint yourself with the people who most likely will starve or freeze to death this winter. They are not important in the big picture are they?

The world is currently suffering a fossil fuel price surge because of a War. Not because of renewable energy. Maybe you like the idea of continued dependency on unstable dictatorships for the world's energy needs instead of genuine unlimited energy independence. Deprived of their income to cause mischief, I think the world would be a better place with people like MbS and Putin defanged.

9 minutes ago, 300sd said:

<snip> let's have something that can handle what the world needs before we take away what the world has.

Too late for that, should have done that a long time ago.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by stevenl

49 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you like the idea of continued dependency on unstable dictatorships for the world's energy needs instead of genuine unlimited energy independence.

"Up to a point, Lord Copper."

 

Many of the crucial materials which go into solar panels and particularly wind turbines are controlled almost exclusively by .... China. It may not be an unstable dictatorship, but it has already flexed its muscles in this area by restricting exports of 'strategic materials', as it calls them.

 

In particular, the rare-earth metal neodymium, called  by some the "heart of wind turbines" because it is used to create the strongest permanent magnets known, is almost exclusively produced by China, incidentally at appalling cost to their own environment, not that they care about that.

 

So we can choose between having the oil weapon leveled at us by dictatorships or the rare-earth metal weapon by other dictatorships.

 

It is certainly not "unlimited energy independence" either way.

21 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

"Up to a point, Lord Copper."

 

Many of the crucial materials which go into solar panels and particularly wind turbines are controlled almost exclusively by .... China. It may not be an unstable dictatorship, but it has already flexed its muscles in this area by restricting exports of 'strategic materials', as it calls them.

 

In particular, the rare-earth metal neodymium, called  by some the "heart of wind turbines" because it is used to create the strongest permanent magnets known, is almost exclusively produced by China, incidentally at appalling cost to their own environment, not that they care about that.

 

So we can choose between having the oil weapon leveled at us by dictatorships or the rare-earth metal weapon by other dictatorships.

 

It is certainly not "unlimited energy independence" either way.

Things can change and the west is working on it.

 

US Boosting Domestic Solar Industry, Reducing Reliance on China

U.S. President Joe Biden Tuesday signed into law the sweeping Inflation Reduction Act, which includes tax incentives for the development of a more robust solar industry. The White House aims to triple domestic solar manufacturing by 2024.

The law responds to longstanding calls by some in the solar industry for U.S. action to boost domestic manufacturing and to level the playing field between the United States and China. Many U.S. firms complain that China can manufacture solar panels and other hardware more cheaply than they can.

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-boosting-domestic-solar-industry-reducing-reliance-on-china/6705923.html

 

US Crackdown on Chinese Solar Means Sales Recovery Ruled Out

US solar power equipment imports fell 16% through May

Key China producers have had goods detained under new law

Giant solar producers in China are ruling out any recovery in panel exports to the US as a recently enacted law targeting forced labor has stalled negotiations between US project developers and some foreign manufacturers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-04/solar-giants-rule-out-us-boost-as-china-forced-labor-act-bites

49 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

"Up to a point, Lord Copper."

 

Many of the crucial materials which go into solar panels and particularly wind turbines are controlled almost exclusively by .... China. It may not be an unstable dictatorship, but it has already flexed its muscles in this area by restricting exports of 'strategic materials', as it calls them.

 

In particular, the rare-earth metal neodymium, called  by some the "heart of wind turbines" because it is used to create the strongest permanent magnets known, is almost exclusively produced by China, incidentally at appalling cost to their own environment, not that they care about that.

 

So we can choose between having the oil weapon leveled at us by dictatorships or the rare-earth metal weapon by other dictatorships.

 

It is certainly not "unlimited energy independence" either way.

Because neodymium is only to be found in China?

Greenland to Host One of Few Rare Earth Mines Outside China

https://ens-newswire.com/greenland-to-host-one-of-few-rare-earth-mines-outside-china/

 

Don’t Panic about Rare Earth Elements
The materials used in iPhones and Tesla cars need not become a long-term casualty of a U.S.-China trade war

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dont-panic-about-rare-earth-elements/

 

China’s stranglehold of the rare earths supply chain will last another decade

https://www.investmentmonitor.ai/sectors/extractive-industries/china-rare-earths-dominance-mining

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

You might want to try and acquaint yourself with facts instead of subscribing to ancient dogma. Here's how the cost of renewables has declined in from 2009 to 2012:

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/

 

and yet, and yet the fossil fueled IC engine still rules the world of transportation.

 

Do tell us how 3rd world countries are going to convert to renewable, when many can't even provide clean drinking water for many?