New York City declares state of emergency over migrant 'crisis situation'

[placeholder]

On 10/8/2022 at 11:15 AM, NickyLouie said:

 

Purchased via predatory credit cards that seldom get paid back.

Got any evidence to support that? Stop spreading falsehoods.

[placeholder]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

This is similar to what the Gov of Texas has been saying for more than a year.

How is Texas supporting asylum seekers? And it looks to me like undocumented aliens are doing their fair share in contributing to Texas' economy.

In Texas, undocumented immigrants have no shortage of work

An underground labor market provides abundant employment opportunities for undocumented immigrants in the United States. But working in the shadows often means accepting low pay and exploitation.

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/16/undocumented-workers-finding-jobs-underground-econ/

Edited October 11, 2022 by placeholder

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, Credo said:

The vast majority of crime is committed by Natural born Americans and the biggest fear around here is getting shot and that's not by anyone crossing the border.   

 

So, gated community it is.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If the federal government had done it's job, likely this situation would never have arisen. In my opinion and that of many, the federal government has created the situation and has dumped the problem on border states. The border states have just had enough and are not going to take it anymore. I for one do not blame them.

Abbott's Operation Lone Star has not slowed down surging number of migrants. He has built wall, arrested migrants, spend million busing migrants to other cities and intensified the inspection of commercial trucks causing economic gridlock. His policies has not worked. Title 42 and Trump's Remain in Mexico program are not working. Abbott has been confrontational, obstructive in his actions and will not coordinate with federal and states on his policies. He has exploited the migrant issue for his own political gains. It's easy to cite numbers and put blame but the facts remained that migration is rising due to economics, natural disasters etc and are out of the President's control. A cohesive plan between state and federal government is needed but under this kind of hostile atmosphere created by Abbott, it's unlikely anything can be achieved.  

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

Exactly....much bigger schools.... and the population of the entire state of Texas is only twice that of NYC.

Speaking of education...how can Texas' population of 28 million be only twice that of NYC with a population of 8 million? I await your explanation with interest.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Speaking of education...how can Texas' population of 28 million be only twice that of NYC with a population of 8 million? I await your explanation with interest.

First numbers I found were 24/12.

[candide]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

First numbers I found were 24/12.

You must have used another search engine than Google. First numbers on top of page are 28/8.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

You must have used another search engine than Google. First numbers on top of page are 28/8.

Just confirms my belief that some people posting here are living in an alternate reality. I couldn't find those 24/12 numbers even when I specifically searched for them.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, candide said:

You must have used another search engine than Google. First numbers on top of page are 28/8.

depends on the input

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Just confirms my belief that some people posting here are living in an alternate reality. I couldn't find those 24/12 numbers even when I specifically searched for them.

Well it's certainly different and certainly a lot closer to true reality. 

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

depends on the input

 

So what was the search term that led you to come up with this remarkable answer?

[candide]

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

depends on the input

 

"New York population" and "Texas population"

Census Bureau indicated as source

[nauseus]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So what was the search term that led you to come up with this remarkable answer?

I can't remember - I don't keep a log - this was in answer to the issue of school place ratio, which was way off, anyway. Now I won't chase this more.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

A lot of the problem seems to be about basic math.

 

Yes, the border States already have systems, personnel, and facilities to deal with immigration, legal and otherwise. Some of this the States themselves wind up having to pay for, and some of it is paid for by the Federal Government. 

 

The problem is, money is allocated to these things based on anticipated need............

 

How many people can be expected, and what will be their status? How many will be children or have children? Et cetera.

 

Based on what they think will happen......... (which, frankly, is just another form of fortune telling!).......... they make budgets. Once they have a budget, they keep/fire/or hire workers, order supplies and food stuffs, build or acquire short-term and longer-term housing facilities, and so forth.

 

But what they are able to do.......... everything  they are able to do............. is dictated by that budget! That took-our-best-guess-at-fortune-telling budget!

 

So......... what are they supposed to do if 10,000 more people show up than they had predicted? Than they had anticipated? Than they have budgeted for?

 

THAT'S the problem!

 

That's the problem they're dealing with in the border States........... AND............ that's problem their dealing with in the cities where the immigrants are being forwarded to!

 

It's not that they don't have means and systems for dealing with newly arrived immigrants. It's that they don't have ENOUGH means and systems for the numbers they are now facing!

 

* Who's going to interview them and process them?

 

* Do you have enough people speaking the right languages?

 

* Where will you house them?

 

* How will you feed them?

 

* Do you have enough food-flexibility to properly address food allergies and religious limitations?

 

* Do you have enough qualified medical personnel for dealing with injuries, pregnancies, and disease?

 

And on and on and on.

 

Whether you're talking about border Cities and States........... or New York City or Chicago or Martha's Vineyard or Washington, DC.......... it's the same problem.

 

It's  the proverbial............

 

"Straw That Breaks the Camel's Back!"

 

When the money has already been allocated based on expected levels of NEED........... what the hell are you supposed to do........... if 10,000 "extra" people show up?

 

Where are you supposed to get the money for the additional officers you need? Where are you supposed to get the money for the additional housing you need? Where are you supposed to get the money for extra food, medicine, clothing, et cetera, that will be needed?

 

If 10,000 more people show up than had been anticipated............ that doesn't mean a bunch of new budget money will magically appear in your bank account!

 

It really is a pretty basic math problem............

 

Budgets limit the amount of money you have to spend............ but they don't limit the number of people who are trying to immigrate!

 

And that's true whether we're talking about New York City or a New Mexico border crossing!

 

The simple fact is, 3,000 a month extra in New York City......... AND ......... 3,000 a month extra in El Paso, Texas............ could both qualify as "emergencies"........... if it's 3,000 more than they are prepared and budgeted for!

 

Because the math is.......

 

If the coffers are empty........ you've got an EMERGENCY!

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Credo said:

Please explain just what 'job' it is that the federal government is supposed to do?   Then let us know how they created the situation or how they are dumping on the border states.   

 

I own a home and property near the border -- an unwalled portion as well -- and I fail to see the problem.   

 

Do whatever is necessary to prevent them entering without using the proper entry points.

Can be done as Australia has proven. Just need the political will to do so.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

It's easy to cite numbers and put blame but the facts remained that migration is rising due to economics, natural disasters etc and are out of the President's control. 

Yes, it's out of THIS president's control. Perhaps a different president might be IN control. Time to man up, put on the big boy pants and do the job he was elected to do.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do whatever is necessary to prevent them entering without using the proper entry points.

Can be done as Australia has proven. Just need the political will to do so.

Not a winner here, I see.   By 'whatever is necessary' do you mean to break the law?   Do you support illegal activities that prevent people from entering?   

 

Don't you think it's rather silly to compare a large island with many miles of open seas to a border that has only a narrow, shallow river in one part and open space in the other.   

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

Not a winner here, I see.   By 'whatever is necessary' do you mean to break the law?   Do you support illegal activities that prevent people from entering?   

 

Don't you think it's rather silly to compare a large island with many miles of open seas to a border that has only a narrow, shallow river in one part and open space in the other.   

 

Good start would be completing the wall, preventing people climbing over it, and reinstating agreements with Mexico to prevent them entering Mexico or keeping them there.

 

No. They could lock up everyone that crosses except in authorised places to await their hearing. Huge camps in the desert somewhere.

That would be the equivalent of what Australia does, and have the same effect of stopping it. Wouldn't get overwhelmed, as soon as the word got out people would stop paying smugglers to take them to be incarcerated.

Edited October 12, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[Credo]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good start would be completing the wall, preventing people climbing over it, and reinstating agreements with Mexico to prevent them entering Mexico or keeping them there.

 

No. They could lock up everyone that crosses except in authorised places to await their hearing. Huge camps in the desert somewhere.

That would be the equivalent of what Australia does, and have the same effect of stopping it. Wouldn't get overwhelmed, as soon as the word got out people would stop paying smugglers to take them to be incarcerated.

No one has built a wall you can't get over.  No one has built one you can't get under, either.  This one is easy to climb and if you don't want to then simply cut the bars with tools that can be gotten at any hardware store and done in minutes.   

Oh, and if you want to detain them for illegal crossing, then the penalty is a $50 -$250 fine and a possible 6th month sentence.  But, that means all the constitutional rights to a fair trial are in effect.   
If you recall Trump sort of tried that quite unsuccessfully, I might add.  

 

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

I can't remember - I don't keep a log - this was in answer to the issue of school place ratio, which was way off, anyway. Now I won't chase this more.

That is 100% believable.

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

A lot of the problem seems to be about basic math.

 

Yes, the border States already have systems, personnel, and facilities to deal with immigration, legal and otherwise. Some of this the States themselves wind up having to pay for, and some of it is paid for by the Federal Government. 

 

The problem is, money is allocated to these things based on anticipated need............

 

How many people can be expected, and what will be their status? How many will be children or have children? Et cetera.

 

Based on what they think will happen......... (which, frankly, is just another form of fortune telling!).......... they make budgets. Once they have a budget, they keep/fire/or hire workers, order supplies and food stuffs, build or acquire short-term and longer-term housing facilities, and so forth.

 

But what they are able to do.......... everything  they are able to do............. is dictated by that budget! That took-our-best-guess-at-fortune-telling budget!

 

So......... what are they supposed to do if 10,000 more people show up than they had predicted? Than they had anticipated? Than they have budgeted for?

 

THAT'S the problem!

 

That's the problem they're dealing with in the border States........... AND............ that's problem their dealing with in the cities where the immigrants are being forwarded to!

 

It's not that they don't have means and systems for dealing with newly arrived immigrants. It's that they don't have ENOUGH means and systems for the numbers they are now facing!

 

* Who's going to interview them and process them?

 

* Do you have enough people speaking the right languages?

 

* Where will you house them?

 

* How will you feed them?

 

* Do you have enough food-flexibility to properly address food allergies and religious limitations?

 

* Do you have enough qualified medical personnel for dealing with injuries, pregnancies, and disease?

 

And on and on and on.

 

Whether you're talking about border Cities and States........... or New York City or Chicago or Martha's Vineyard or Washington, DC.......... it's the same problem.

 

It's  the proverbial............

 

"Straw That Breaks the Camel's Back!"

 

When the money has already been allocated based on expected levels of NEED........... what the hell are you supposed to do........... if 10,000 "extra" people show up?

 

Where are you supposed to get the money for the additional officers you need? Where are you supposed to get the money for the additional housing you need? Where are you supposed to get the money for extra food, medicine, clothing, et cetera, that will be needed?

 

If 10,000 more people show up than had been anticipated............ that doesn't mean a bunch of new budget money will magically appear in your bank account!

 

It really is a pretty basic math problem............

 

Budgets limit the amount of money you have to spend............ but they don't limit the number of people who are trying to immigrate!

 

And that's true whether we're talking about New York City or a New Mexico border crossing!

 

The simple fact is, 3,000 a month extra in New York City......... AND ......... 3,000 a month extra in El Paso, Texas............ could both qualify as "emergencies"........... if it's 3,000 more than they are prepared and budgeted for!

 

Because the math is.......

 

If the coffers are empty........ you've got an EMERGENCY!

 

 

 

What makes you think that Texas is spending money to assist undocumented aliens? You're comparing programs financed by the Federal govt in Texas to programs financed by New York City in NYC.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do whatever is necessary to prevent them entering without using the proper entry points.

Can be done as Australia has proven. Just need the political will to do so.

Hmm...what is there about Australia that makes it different from the United States in regards to its borders? What could that be?

Could somebody help me out here?

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, it's out of THIS president's control. Perhaps a different president might be IN control. Time to man up, put on the big boy pants and do the job he was elected to do.

Perhaps the Republicans should think about working with the federal administration for the benefit of the country to resolve the migrant issues rather than selfishly exploiting the issues for their own political ambitions. They should not follow blindly to leverage the migrant issue that was Trump's policy centerpiece. Wear the big boy pants and not suck up to Trump's exploitative self serving policy.  

Edited October 12, 2022 by Eric Loh
wrong word

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps the Republicans should think about working with the federal administration for the benefit of the country to resolve the migrant issues rather than selfishly exploiting the issues for their own political ambitions. They should not follow blindly to leverage the migrant issue that was Trump's policy centerpiece. Wear the big boy pants and not suck up to Trump's exploitative self serving policy.  

After Biden's policies have undermined America’s border security so much already, it seems that his course is set, indicating that any attempt to "work with the federal administration" would be futile.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

After Biden's policies have undermined America’s border security so much already, it seems that his course is set, indicating that any attempt to "work with the federal administration" would be futile.

You got to love that phrase, "border security." As though undocumented aliens pose some kind of threat to the United States instead of being a crucial source of Labor for the agricultural and construction industry. It's a sure thing we'll be seeing lots of them undermining Florida by working in the reconstruction efforts in that state. Despite which, I doubt DeSantis will be delivering them to New York City.

Edited October 12, 2022 by placeholder

[nauseus]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You got to love that phrase, "border security." As though undocumented aliens pose some kind of threat to the United States instead of being a crucial source of Labor for the agricultural and construction industry. It's a sure thing we'll be seeing lots of them undermining Florida by working in the reconstruction efforts in that state. Despite which, I doubt DeSantis will be delivering them to New York City.

 A crucial source of drug mules and revenue for the people smugglers, more like. 

[placeholder]

Just now, nauseus said:

 A crucial source of drug mules and revenue for the people smugglers, more like. 

A few reasons why your comment is ridiculous. For one thing, drugs are mostly brought over via shipments of perfectly legitimate shipments of manufactured goods from Mexico.

And exactly how out-of-touch do you have to be to understand that the reason there is a people smuggling business is because these smugglers are paid for it by the people that they're smuggling? People who come to the United States so that they can earn money to live and support their families.

[candide]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 A crucial source of drug mules and revenue for the people smugglers, more like. 

As already commented by Placeholder, that's not how drug enters the U.S. 

As they can easily be spotted and arrested, it's not a reliable way for drug traffickers. 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

What makes you think that Texas is spending money to assist undocumented aliens? You're comparing programs financed by the Federal govt in Texas to programs financed by New York City in NYC.

No, no "comparison" was made. I've merely shown why New York City, who's received "only 17,000 bused-in immigrants" in roughly six months......... (about 3,000 per month).......... might be justified in calling the situation "an emergency."

 

Just like all those cities along the border, it really isn't a question of how many people coming in you have to deal with.

 

It's a question of how many people you are PREPARED  to handle, and how many you have BUDGETED FOR!

 

If the numbers arriving greatly exceed the number you have prepared for and budgeted for............ then........... regardless of size or how often you have to deal with this........ you've got an emergency !

 

...

 

If you're the mayor of Martha's Vineyard and you have prepared to handle zero and you have budgeted to take care of zero............. then, yeah, fifty suddenly showing up.......... could turn out to be quite the problem!

Edited October 12, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[nauseus]

52 minutes ago, placeholder said:

?A few reasons why your comment is ridiculous. For one thing, drugs are mostly brought over via shipments of perfectly legitimate shipments of manufactured goods from Mexico.

And exactly how out-of-touch do you have to be to understand that the reason there is a people smuggling business is because these smugglers are paid for it by the people that they're smuggling? People who come to the United States so that they can earn money to live and support their families.

What nonsense! How is the import of illegal drugs "perfectly legitimate"?

 

That people pay criminals to help them over the border does not make that crossing legal.

 

Ridiculous back.