wwest5829 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jingthing said: True but will eventually be caught. Hmm, Jimmy Carter pardoned, I think in 1977. Edited October 11, 2022 by wwest5829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, plus7 said: Yes, yes.... I but it happened in US history and Vietnam war. Do you want to discuss it too ? I doubt, it is such an obvious topic. Don't you know that even Ukranians try to escape draft too ? About russians, some flee, but much more go to the war. With fears, but go. I have not seen the documented numbers so I would be hesitant to make this determination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 11:32 AM, Jingthing said: Well yes I do think about Vietnam. I knew some draft dodgers but all were active dissenters (but the penalties for that were mild compared to Russia). I was an active dissenter myself, sorry, Okies from Muskokies. About Russians fleeing. Come on man. Can you name one time in world history where there has been such a dramatic and large wave of "draft dodgers" fleeing any other country? I do not take issue but counsel restraint as we do not have the facts and figures yet. As for a dramatic and large wave of draft dodgers, I feel guilty as I would have to research this. My suspicion is that: 1. current media coverage may be influencing our thinking and 2. I do seriously suspect we would find previous wars around the globe where we would find substantial numbers of me fleeing military service ( yes, just an educated guess based on my reading of history). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, whereyougo said: Can keep doing circuits around SEA without any overstay. To easy Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 32 minutes ago, wwest5829 said: Maybe they can apply for political asylum in some countries. I seem to remember Canada as a destination in earlier wrongful political decisions. Well during the entire very long Vietnam War according to this there were roughly only 40,000 that fled to Canada and they classed as immigrants not refugees. I never heard of a dodger on that era that went to any other country than Canada Of course there were some but definitely mostly Canada. One of my best buddies migrated to Manitiba with his entire war protesting family. I remember the farewell party. Manitoba sounded like Siberia. https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/u-s-vietnam-war-draft-dodgers-left-their-mark-on-canada/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wwest5829 Posted October 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Well during the entire very long Vietnam War according to this there were roughly only 40,000 that fled to Canada and they classed as immigrants not refugees. I never heard of a dodger on that era that went to any other country than Canada Of course there were some but definitely mostly Canada. One of my best buddies migrated to Manitiba with his entire war protesting family. I remember the farewell party. Manitoba sounded like Siberia. https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/u-s-vietnam-war-draft-dodgers-left-their-mark-on-canada/ Don’t wish to bore you but bear with me for a story to hopefully bring a smile. Dad and Uncles had served in or at the end of WW II. Dad had said he would understand if I headed for Canada. Draft numbering system was put in place. My number 210 and they were up to 190. Next round and a good chance I would be called. Already had the physical. Hmm, OK I applied for Navy OCS. All tests passed but there were too many of us with the same idea. Unlimited line officer closed, only Supply and Nuclear sub available. With my lack of math ability … well, subs were not the best choice. Supply? Hey, everybody loves the supply officer! Right 1-9 accountants, bookkeepers, … number 9 Social Sciences (for me history, 10. = other. Richard Mulhouse Nixon (bless his potted head) froze the draft at 190! The end of my Naval career. Yet another path not taken … Edited October 11, 2022 by wwest5829 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) The war was over before I was 18 but I would have been 4F. I started protesting at 13. Let my freak flag fly and all that. My story might beat yours. A neighbors family was driving down to a major protest in their Citroen but my Dad forbade it. Not sure that he was very pro war but he thought my activities might threaten his defense oriented government job. So he literally tied me to a chair in the basement! Naturally I escaped. Don't get me wrong. He was a sweetheart. Edited October 11, 2022 by Jingthing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/10/04/russia-putin-mobilization-central-asia-conscripts-flee/ According to this an estimated "hundreds of thousands" of Russians had fled the country to avoid conscription in a very short period of time as of 2 October. They keep coming and to several different countries. The line at the Georgian border could be seen from space. I challenge all to cite a comparably large or bigger such movement of men fleeing conscription in history. Edited October 11, 2022 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereyougo Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Jingthing said: Money Doubt it. Why do expats assume everyone else is also poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, whereyougo said: Doubt it. Why do expats assume everyone else is also poor? I don't. Some of them left with one days notice. They are not typical expats! They ran for their lives. They have issues with Russian Bank cards working. They are a wide range of wealth levels and ages. Some have valuable marketable skills. Some don't. Very few left with detailed long term financial plans. Use your common sense. The longer they need to be out of Russia the number that will run out of money will inevitably increase. They may need to be out indefinitely. Nobody knows how long. Edited October 11, 2022 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3NUMBAS Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 they could catch a boat the uk by inflatable at night it seems very easy to enter the uk without a PP and hide in the woodwork there are construction workers in the uk in the city doing heavy lifting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woof999 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, plus7 said: And finally, the whole France in 1940. Of course, there were 7 brave members of Resista`nce who were filmed in 9 movies. Don't forget Rene Artois please. A hero of my time. Allo Allo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 12:16 PM, KhunLA said: Talk to 2 people, but 'many' from Russia ???? Unless on a direct flight to HKT, you'd need transit stickers. Survey size 2 100% correlation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DezLez Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said: they could catch a boat the uk by inflatable at nigh Where from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geisha Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 I would leave too if someone tried to force me into an illegal war on a sovereign country. If it was to fight for my home country I would stay. Not all Russians are Putin lovers. If they have the money , why shouldn’t they leave ? A huge amount of Russians have condos in Thailand and homes in many other countries, or have left Russia a long time ago. They can get visas , renew them, do border hops, stay in Cambodia, Vietnam, Bali for a long time on their savings. Anywhere that will have them. These countries aren’t reserved exclusively for Europeans and Americans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereyougo Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jingthing said: I don't. Some of them left with one days notice. They are not typical expats! They ran for their lives. They have issues with Russian Bank cards working. They are a wide range of wealth levels and ages. Some have valuable marketable skills. Some don't. Very few left with detailed long term financial plans. Use your common sense. The longer they need to be out of Russia the number that will run out of money will inevitably increase. They may need to be out indefinitely. Nobody knows how long. Never said they were expats. Only a minor portion left that could afford to longterm wether using own funds or those of wealthy parents. They can remain indefinitely in SEA especially rural areas. THOSE that got Nothing are porobably in body bags. Why are you struggling with this lol? Edited October 11, 2022 by whereyougo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 20 minutes ago, whereyougo said: Never said they were expats. Only a minor portion left that could afford to longterm wether using own funds or those of wealthy parents. They can remain indefinitely in SEA especially rural areas. THOSE that got Nothing are porobably in body bags. Why are you struggling with this lol? BAIT IGNORED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deli Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 In fsct, Phuket is very busy with Ivans agsin. And more to come, their community is growing and they stick together. ED Visa for $ and hete we go. Unfortunstely, Cha Cha and his clowns don't ban them. As longvas their Zar bombs Ukraine, they are guilty the same. Don't want to get close to these people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tropposurfer Posted October 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 2:50 PM, Jingthing said: The thing about these Russian "draft dodgers" is morally ambiguous. In general most people in most countries don't exactly exalt people evading military service when their country calls. Most of the Russians escaping now didn't have a word to say in opposition to the evil war chosen by their dictator UNTIL the war came to them. Not exactly profiles in courage. Of course, I don't blame them, but if this war lasts a long time, many are going to find it impossible to stay abroad because of visas and expenses. No complaints about lovely mother Russia and the boom times until the water got a bit too warm maybe? I have a Russian (St Petersburg) friend who married a Swiss some years back, and she saw and wrote, as a journalist, about the deliberate, inexorable, degradation of Russias moral centre spanning decades since Putin came to power. She can't go back home now because of her speaking out. I hope the Ukrainians drive every last son back behind the Russian border pre-Crimea invasion and show them no mercy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Deli said: In fsct, Phuket is very busy with Ivans agsin. And more to come, their community is growing and they stick together. ED Visa for $ and hete we go. Unfortunstely, Cha Cha and his clowns don't ban them. As longvas their Zar bombs Ukraine, they are guilty the same. Don't want to get close to these people. Some are more guilty than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said: No complaints about lovely mother Russia and the boom times until the water got a bit too warm maybe? I have a Russian (St Petersburg) friend who married a Swiss some years back, and she saw and wrote, as a journalist, about the deliberate, inexorable, degradation of Russias moral centre spanning decades since Putin came to power. She can't go back home now because of her speaking out. I hope the Ukrainians drive every last son back behind the Russian border pre-Crimea invasion and show them no mercy. Unfortunately even in a better case scenario getting Crimea back would be very hard. In fact even if Ukraine got all the rest of the east back I reckon at that point the west would be ready to push a deal hard. Not fair but what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Will Thailand - another land favorable to oligarch occupation - become the new Russian Crimea escape from reality? July 2022 The Thaiger: "Russian billionaire's super yacht Samui spurs hope of wealthy tourists" What's good for the goose is good enough for the gander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Srikcir said: Will Thailand - another land favorable to oligarch occupation - become the new Russian Crimea escape from reality? July 2022 The Thaiger: "Russian billionaire's super yacht Samui spurs hope of wealthy tourists" What's good for the goose is good enough for the gander? No, but Georgia might. So many Russians there enjoying themselves that Putin might feel to attack them again to liberate the draft dodgers from the great wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortean1 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Majority in Vietnam were volunteers. The Second Indochina War was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereyougo Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/11/2022 at 8:24 PM, Jingthing said: BAIT IGNORED No comeback so taking the BAIT DEFENCE ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, whereyougo said: No comeback so taking the BAIT DEFENCE ???? If the shoe fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalawaan Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 4:41 PM, Jingthing said: I doubt it. Have you seen the prices out of Russia? I posted about this before. I follow a number of Russian youtubers who have escaped or are trying to escape. One of them was talking to a lot of them during a peak fleeing day in Moscow airport. Thailand, Bali, and Vietnam were specifically mentioned as ultimate destinations. Georgia has been most popular but because of the Russians, rents have skyrocketed and the government is talking about cracking down on easy visas for them. To add, men trying to leave are questioned at borders and SOME are turned away from leaving. The top targets of that are the younger men. I'm sure the Thai junta will sympathetically NOT grant them asylum like the little Sri Lankan criminal who fled his responsibilities recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/11/2022 at 2:33 PM, LALes said: America learned an important lesson from the Vitnam War...never use a draft to fight an unpopular war. Better yet, never fight an unpopular war, period. I guess George Bush the Second never got the memo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylophone Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 10:34 AM, CANSIAM said: Actually the escaping Vladisvostok fella said many onboard, Im sure many are holidaying rather than fleeing as well......... And I have a good idea where they are, having just returned from a trip to Villa Market in Chalong, where I would estimate that 70% of the customers were Russian! I stopped off at Big C (Patong) on the way back and sure enough the Russian contingent is growing there too......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, xylophone said: And I have a good idea where they are, having just returned from a trip to Villa Market in Chalong, where I would estimate that 70% of the customers were Russian! I stopped off at Big C (Patong) on the way back and sure enough the Russian contingent is growing there too......... What sort did they seem? Old school types? Z types? New wave draft dodgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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