50 minutes ago, nauseus said:

But it also seems there are millions of people who seem to think that conflating two separate issues is useful.   

The links between the perpetrator and MAGA seem to have been pretty well established thus far.   It isn't conflation when there is connection.

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

There has been plenty of evidence of him promoting maga/q ideologies very very recently.  There may be an argument that this particular individual has mental issues, however, you miss the point.  It's the normalisation and promotion of political violence by MAGA, which will lead to more and more situations like this, that means there is no conflation but only connection in the post you replied to.

A misinformation post has been removed.

 

History of threats against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: "It's here; we shouldn't be surprised"

Per USA Today:

...

"Arrests made for other threats against Pelosi have resulted in prison time for at least five men in the last two years.

 

Last year, a North Carolina man was sentenced to 28 months in prison for threatening to shoot the speaker.

 

A Georgia man who drove across the country with a rifle and threatened to kill Pelosi was sentenced to 28 months in prison last December."

 

and further details of the other cases beyond what I'm allowed to quote via fair use.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/history-of-threats-against-house-speaker-nancy-pelosi-it-s-here-we-shouldn-t-be-surprised/ar-AA13BhtA

 

If you read into the details of the longish article above, it's particularly interesting because it also recited several cases where the FBI during Trump's time as president wanted to prosecute people making serious threats against Pelosi and several other current and former Democratic politicians. But the U.S. Attorney's Office prosecutors -- mostly during the 2017-2020 years Trump's appointees ran the Justice Department -- declined to file charges in those several such cases, according to the article.

 

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

48 minutes ago, Slip said:

There has been plenty of evidence of him promoting maga/q ideologies very very recently.  There may be an argument that this particular individual has mental issues, however, you miss the point.  It's the normalisation and promotion of political violence by MAGA, which will lead to more and more situations like this, that means there is no conflation but only connection in the post you replied to.

It's claims like this that encourage more political strife. 

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's claims like this that encourage more political strife. 

 

Don't think the MAGA violent extremists like this guy need any help in going off the deep end, certainly not like they're going to be any further stirred by factual discussion of the current case.

 

The rise of domestic
extremism in America

Data shows a surge in homegrown incidents not seen in a quarter-century

April 12, 2021

 

"Domestic terrorism incidents have soared to new highs in the United States, driven chiefly by white-supremacist, anti-Muslim and anti-government extremists on the far right, according to a Washington Post analysis of data compiled by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

 

The surge reflects a growing threat from homegrown terrorism not seen in a quarter-century, with right-wing extremist attacks and plots greatly eclipsing those from the far left and causing more deaths, the analysis shows.

The number of all domestic terrorism incidents in the data peaked in 2020."

 

(more)

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-terrorism-data/

 

 

1 in 3 Americans say violence against government can be justified, citing fears of political schism, pandemic

The Post-UMD poll, coming a year after the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, marks the largest share of Americans to hold that view since the question was first asked more than two decades ago.

January 1, 2022

...

A year after a pro-Trump mob ransacked the Capitol in the worst attack on the home of Congress since it was burned by British forces in 1814, a Washington Post-University of Maryland poll finds that about 1 in 3 Americans say they believe violence against the government can at times be justified.

...

While a 2015 survey found no significant partisan divide when it comes to the question of justified violence against the government, the new poll identified a sharper rise on the right — with 40 percent of Republicans and 41 percent of independents saying it can be acceptable. The view was held by 23 percent of Democrats, the survey finds."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/01/1-3-americans-say-violence-against-government-can-be-justified-citing-fears-political-schism-pandemic/

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's claims like this that encourage more political strife. 

Clueless

 

QAnon: a timeline of violence linked to the conspiracy theory

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/15/qanon-violence-crimes-timeline

And of course, it's not just lunatic members of the public, but elected (Republican) officials as well, as with the following example:

 

Republican Confronted Over Shooting Video Tweet With 'Fire Pelosi' Hashtag

"Representative Tom Emmer was confronted on Sunday over a video of him firing a gun that he posted on Twitter with the hashtag "fire [Nancy] Pelosi," a couple days before the House Speaker's husband was violently attacked inside the couple's San Francisco home.

 

Emmer, a Minnesota Republican, said in the Wednesday tweet that he was firing shots with Republican Representative Jack Bergman of Michigan and Kelly Cooper, who is the GOP candidate in Arizona for the U.S. House, in this year's midterm election.

 

"Enjoyed exercising my Second Amendment rights with @KellyCooperAZ & General @JackBergman_MI1. 13 days to make history. Let's #FirePelosi," the Republican tweeted."

 

(more)

 

https://www.newsweek.com/republican-confronted-over-shooting-video-tweet-fire-pelosi-hashtag-1755661

 

Image from the above-linked Newsweek article:

 

46 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's claims like this that encourage more political strife. 

Your attempt to move the goalposts notwithstanding, you are wrong.  It is entirely the point of view that you are supporting that leads to political strife.  The MAGA movement is actively and demonstrably fomenting political violence and intimidation as a normal way to go about your goals.  

 

I'm done.  If I want to play chess with a pigeon I'll buy an outside board.

It is you who is wrong but that is entirely your point of view. 

 

And your aspect of these goalposts - you will never score from there. 

Another unsourced and unsubstantiated misinformation post has been removed.

 

Multiple posts of news reports earlier in this thread detail the suspect's prior political views many years ago, and then how those radically changed to the extreme right in more recent years and in the lead-up to the Pelosi attack.

 

 

Every single right wing lie and conspiracy has been debunked chapter and verse by the police and the perpetrator’s own taped confession. There will be no apologies, corrections or retractions from them because they are busy creating new conspiracies.

21 hours ago, xylophone said:

Promise that you won't cry when you see the actual footage of the idiot breaking into the house, or indeed try to rearrange the narrative to suit the twisted ideals of the MAGA sympathisers on here – – promise??

 

And then when he is jailed for his crimes, perhaps you will want to send him some letters of MAGA comfort!!

 

Lock him up, there are enough idiots running loose in the US without letting another one go free.

Of course. Why would I cry? ???? I only want the truth to come out, that's why I want to see the unedited footage. I don't "want" the official story to be a lie, it just doesn't add up to me and I suspect the body cam footage will tell all, which is why I am so keen to see it. It's also why I believe it won't be shown any time soon.

 

MAGA? Hardly. I am British, not a fan of Trump (or Biden BTW) and certainly not MAGA. Great strawman though.

 

He will no doubt be locked up. The attack was terrible and he's a loon. It's the circumstances surrounding the attack that are intriguing.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Of course. Why would I cry? ???? I only want the truth to come out, that's why I want to see the unedited footage. I don't "want" the official story to be a lie, it just doesn't add up to me and I suspect the body cam footage will tell all, which is why I am so keen to see it. It's also why I believe it won't be shown any time soon.

 

MAGA? Hardly. I am British, not a fan of Trump (or Biden BTW) and certainly not MAGA. Great strawman though, real classy ????. Given the vitriolic tone of your post, may I be so bold as to assume you are one the #bekind progressives?  ????.

 

He will no doubt be locked up. The attack was terrible and he's a loon. It's the circumstances surrounding the attack that are intriguing.

If you want the truth, you might want to check this thread out:

 

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Of course. Why would I cry? ???? I only want the truth to come out, that's why I want to see the unedited footage. I don't "want" the official story to be a lie, it just doesn't add up to me and I suspect the body cam footage will tell all, which is why I am so keen to see it. It's also why I believe it won't be shown any time soon.

 

MAGA? Hardly. I am British, not a fan of Trump (or Biden BTW) and certainly not MAGA. Great strawman though.

 

He will no doubt be locked up. The attack was terrible and he's a loon. It's the circumstances surrounding the attack that are intriguing.

Have you ever considered that we may never see the cctv footage of the attack? When its shown in court I suspect it will not be for public viewing.

 

Not sure the victim and his family would want a graphic, bloody and attempted murder peace of video making the rounds and going viral just to please a few doubters. 

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

It has already been presented and assessed, and a verdict reached by the social? media and they have determined that Paul Pelosi is guilty of beating himself over the head with a hammer, and that David DePape was just an innocent bystander let into the house by the third person.

 

Further it is a cover up, expressly ordered by President Biden, aka the Great Satan and election stealer in chief, himself.  ???? ????

Plenty of speculation from both sides. The left are saying that the hemp jewellery making, bus dwelling, nudist protester with an ex-girlfriend called Gypsy (who is an ardent BLM and LGBTQ+ supporter) was a far right MAGA extremist. Not typical traits of the far right but hey, if it fits the narrative...  ????

 

Maybe best we ignore the loony theories from BOTH sides and simply look at the evidence. Let's re-visit this after the body cam footage is released. 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

I can only repeat what I already said about that:

Not sure the victim and his family would want a graphic, bloody and attempted murder peace of video making the rounds and going viral just to please a few doubters. 

 

Beside which it was only yesterday that this was issued so we not even sure they've seen or heard it yet Members of Pelosi family to hear 911 call and see bodycam footage

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

The court cases are very soon, why not have a little patience?

Judge Diane Northway set a hearing for November 4 in San Francisco Superior Court to set a date for the preliminary hearing

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Plenty of speculation from both sides. The left are saying that the hemp jewellery making, bus dwelling, nudist protester with an ex-girlfriend called Gypsy (who is an ardent BLM and LGBTQ+ supporter) was a far right MAGA extremist. Not typical traits of the far right but hey, if it fits the narrative...  ????

 

Maybe best we ignore the loony theories from BOTH sides and simply look at the evidence. Let's re-visit this after the body cam footage is released. 

I can think of a relatively recent example in which hundreds of hours worth of body camera, security and news camera footage has been released depicting a mass violent attack.

 

And yet very many right wingers insist it depicts a peaceful protest.

 

We can all also read through your posts in this thread.

 

So please excuse me if I don’t buy your wanting to see body camera  evidence before you make up your mind.

 

 

Edited November 2, 20223 yr by Chomper Higgot

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I can think of a relatively recent example in which hundreds of hours worth of body camera, security and news camera footage has been released depicting a mass violent attack.

 

And yet very many right wingers insist it depicts a peaceful protest.

 

We can all also read through your posts in this thread.

 

So please excuse me if I don’t buy your wanting to see body camera  evidence before you make up your mind.

 

 

Sorry I don't understand your point.

 

You don't believe I want to see the footage of the Pelosi attack because there is footage of the Jan 6 raid? Could you clarify?

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Sorry I don't understand your point.

 

You don't believe I want to see the footage of the Pelosi attack because there is footage of the Jan 6 raid? Could you clarify?

I don’t think it’ll make a blind bit of difference.

 

I suspect, based on your posts in this thread, you’ll simply switch to asking more inane question, such as where the shadows fall or the angle of view.

 

Here’s what I’m going to do.

 

Wait for the trial.

 

If you have any relevant information you believe the defense, or indeed the prosecution might benefit from, do your civil duty and pass it on to the attorneys, I’m sure they’ll be delighted to hear from you.

 

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Don't give up your day job ????.

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

And if there is no footage?

 

 

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Don't give up your day job ????.

I'm impressed. I only hope you didn't waste too much time on such a breathtakingly original, yet witty comeback ????.

 

Such a glib reply is certainly much easier than addressing how the far fetched story being touted could be true. 

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And if there is no footage?

 

 

Oh how you must wish that was the case.

 

But unfortunately...

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/01/politics/paul-pelosi-family-body-cam-footage/index.html

 

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Oh how you must wish that was the case.

 

But unfortunately...

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/01/politics/paul-pelosi-family-body-cam-footage/index.html

 

I don’t wish anything was the case.

 

I shall however take note of your response to body camera footage, if revealed, and your response if not revealed.

 

I myself shall wait for the trial and look forward to the Jury’s verdict, which I shall accept regardless of what the verdict is.

 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

The trial, that’s the bit where both the prosecution and defense present and challenge evidence and testimony.

 

The Jury then decide a verdict.

 

Let’s see who does and doesn’t accept the evidence and testimony presented at trial, let’s see who does or doesn’t accept the Jury’s verdict.

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The trial, that’s the bit where both the prosecution and defense present and challenge evidence and testimony.

 

The Jury then decide a verdict.

 

Let’s see who does and doesn’t accept the evidence and testimony presented at trial, let’s see who does or doesn’t accept the Jury’s verdict.

Indeed, the trial will be fascinating. I hope it is televised.

 

I will accept the verdict either way. Same as I accept the result of Democratic referendums.

 

I just want to see the video for myself (minus the graphic content of course). If they refuse to release the footage (as I suspect they will) then I will still have my doubts, since the story they are telling simply doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't add up. Not based on MAGA, or Trump, or any other left wing trope but on the fundamentals of human behaviour and the laws of physics.

 

 

Edited November 2, 20223 yr by onthedarkside
unsourced and unsubstantiated claims removed

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Indeed, the trial will be fascinating. I hope it is televised.

 

I will accept the verdict either way. Same as I accept the result of Democratic referendums.

 

I just want to see the video for myself (minus the graphic content of course). If they refuse to release the footage (as I suspect they will) then I will still have my doubts, since the story they are telling simply doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't add up. Not based on MAGA, or Trump, or any other left wing trope but on the fundamentals of human behaviour and the laws of physics.

 

So you’ll accept the verdict but if you don’t get to see the footage you’ll have your doubts.

 

In other words your acceptance of the Jury verdict is conditional.

 

Why doesn’t that surprise me?!

 

 

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

And it is quite likely that he IS guilty of ALL the charges against him.

 

Of course he pled not guilty. He might be crazy, but he isn't stupid.