1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Both of which came to you second hand.

That's all anybody has unless maybe you're in the know.  

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

That's all anybody has unless maybe you're in the know.  

So, what you have been told the police said doesn’t match what you have been told Paul Pelosi said.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even when corrected the MAGA nuts still carried on with their conspiracy theories, only after this new information has come out, the facts, they seem to be a little quieter although I see the excuses are now rolling in. Its pretty sad to see such desperation to justify their positions.

Again with the conspiracy. Some people believed what Politico reported. Simple as.

 

Take it up with Politico.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Yes I see they "corrected" that. But my point stands, someone reading it is not a conspiracy theorist for believing it was accurate. That is the fault of Politico, not the reader.

 

I know my posting history, please point out anything you found offensive. I haven't said anything controversial, the most controversial thing I said was let's wait for the facts to come out before reaching a conclusion.

Yet the definition of a conspiracy theorist is "a person who proposes or believes in a conspiracy theory".

 

Perhaps some critical thinking would be appropriate here, like waiting for the facts or looking for other supporting evidence from reliable sources.

 

Conspiracy theorist Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

Just now, JonnyF said:

Again with the conspiracy. Some people believed what Politico reported. Simple as.

 

Take it up with Politico.

Again, even after corrected from later reports they still believed thier own rubbish. The following day the reports were corrected from other sources, but too late, wild and baseless theories of a homosexual tryst have been making the rounds in conservative forums, even though Pelosi told authorities he had never seen the suspect before. Untrue assertions about how the attacker got in, the list is endless.

 

Its not till today, ie the latest reports already posted that their lies seem to be dying down.  Its pretty sad to see such desperation to justify their positions.

Does the attacker live in Berkeley?

 

8 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Yet the definition of a conspiracy theorist is "a person who proposes or believes in a conspiracy theory".

 

Perhaps some critical thinking would be appropriate here, like waiting for the facts or looking for other supporting evidence from reliable sources.

 

Conspiracy theorist Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

Agreed. Of course based on that definition you still have to know what is a "loony conspiracy theory" and what is a genuine "cover-up". There are examples of both in US politics in the past. Which is why I've said "let's wait and see what eventually comes out" from the very start. Too many conflicting reports, no CCTV etc. 

 

Speculation is of course a natural thing for people to do in such a situation. It is a forum, differing opinions should be welcomed and respected. 

“The man accused of attacking House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband with a hammer was in the country illegally, ICE sources told The Post Monday”.
 
https://nypost.com/2022/11/01/paul-pelosis-attacker-david-depape-in-us-illegally-on-overstayed-visa/

 

They dont know how long he’s been here on overstay , living in that hippie commune with apparent mental illness!

 

55 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am 78 and I have lived and worked in 38 countries across the world from South America to Europe, to the Arab Gulf, Pakistan, Bangladesh, PNG, Asia and NZ.

 

I have never been a victim of a home invasion, nor has anybody I know. That includes one military coup in Venezuela and 3 here in Thailand.

 

You must be very unlucky or somewhat of a high profile person.

 

Home invasions or robberies tend to occur where the perpetrator believes there are things of value in the property that he can steal. No point risking robbing the home of a person who has less than you. That’s why my home has never been invaded.

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/10/29/david-depape-blog-pelosi-fairies/

 

https://news.yahoo.com/attacker-wanted-to-hold-nancy-pelosi-hostage-planned-to-break-her-knee-caps-194449972.html

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

“There is absolutely no evidence that Mr. Pelosi knew this man,” San Francisco Police Chief William Scott told CNN in an interview. “As a matter of fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite.”

But the explosion of social media posts discussing the theory shows how quickly conspiracies can spread.

 

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

When the tapes have been released I will consider that "proof". I do not consider a police statement to be proof as these can be incorrect on occasion. Whether due to a misunderstanding or something else, they are not conclusive proof of what actually happened.

 

To clarify, I am not saying the reports are true. I am saying there has been no definitive proof either way - yet.

And if you don’t see the tapes (which may or may not exist)?

 

Or if you are told there are no tapes?

 

 

59 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

“There is absolutely no evidence that Mr. Pelosi knew this man,” San Francisco Police Chief William Scott told CNN in an interview. “As a matter of fact, the evidence indicates the exact opposite.”

But the explosion of social media posts discussing the theory shows how quickly conspiracies can spread.

 

 

A statement by the police chief that they have no evidence of something, a day after an alleged crime is not definitive proof of the truth.

 

The truth must be determined in a court of law after a thorough investigation, when all the evidence (CCTV, body cam footage. recordings of phone calls, questioning on the stand of victim and accused etc.) has been presented and assessed, and a verdict reached. 

7 minutes ago, candide said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/10/29/david-depape-blog-pelosi-fairies/

 

https://news.yahoo.com/attacker-wanted-to-hold-nancy-pelosi-hostage-planned-to-break-her-knee-caps-194449972.html

Thanks. Can't open the top one but where is the proof of any Trump/MAGA connection in the other?

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And if you don’t see the tapes (which may or may not exist)?

 

Or if you are told there are no tapes?

 

 

Of course I will believe what I see/hear on the tapes. 

 

911 calls are recorded. Police wear body cams to situations like these. Wealthy built up areas like these have multiple CCTV cameras. As do wealthy politicians who have received threats in the past. 

 

If all of that goes missing, yes I might think that's a bit strange. 

Just now, JonnyF said:

A statement by the police chief that they have no evidence of something, a day after an alleged crime is not definitive proof of the truth.

 

The truth must be determined in a court of law after a thorough investigation, when all the evidence (CCTV, body cam footage. recordings of phone calls, questioning on the stand of victim and accused etc.) has been presented and assessed, and a verdict reached. 

Until then you carry on with deliberately laying doubt despite ALL available credible evidence including from De Pape himself in police interviews yesterday who also stated his intentions for the attack.

 

"During an interview with San Francisco police, David DePape told authorities he decided to break into House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's home to hold her hostage and break 'her kneecaps' to teach other members of Congress a lesson."

 

I can see a pattern of denial here and like I stated its absolutely despicable. 

 

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Of course I will believe what I see/hear on the tapes. 

 

911 calls are recorded. Police wear body cams to situations like these. Wealthy built up areas like these have multiple CCTV cameras. As do wealthy politicians who have received threats in the past. 

 

If all of that goes missing, yes I might think that's a bit strange. 

And there you have it, primed for a conspiracy.

 

I’ll wait for the trial.

45 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Until then you carry on with deliberately laying doubt despite ALL available credible evidence including from De Pape himself in police interviews yesterday who also stated his intentions for the attack.

 

"During an interview with San Francisco police, David DePape told authorities he decided to break into House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's home to hold her hostage and break 'her kneecaps' to teach other members of Congress a lesson."

 

I can see a pattern of denial here and like I stated its absolutely despicable. 

 

 

I'm just waiting for all the evidence to be presented before I reach my conclusions. That seems a perfectly logical and reasonable position to take.

 

We've seen how things can emerge later on that are not apparent in the immediate aftermath, especially when it has political connotations.

 

Therefore I prefer to wait for a full investigation before reaching my conclusions. If you consider that despicable, well, let's just say I find that assessment a little extreme but each to their own.

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

37 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I'm just waiting for all the evidence to be presented before I reach my conclusions. That seems a perfectly logical and reasonable position to take.

 

We've seen how things can emerge later on that are not apparent in the immediate aftermath, especially when it has political connotations.

 

Therefore I prefer to wait for a full investigation before reaching my conclusions. If you consider that despicable, well, let's just say I find that assessment a little extreme but each to their own.

 I suggest you wait then because your the one spreading doubt. The rest of us are giving facts

 

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Thanks. Can't open the top one but where is the proof of any Trump/MAGA connection in the other?

This one has no paywall

"Last year, David DePape posted links on his Facebook page to multiple videos produced by My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell falsely alleging that the 2020 election was stolen. Other posts included transphobic images and linked to websites claiming Covid vaccines were deadly. “The death rates being promoted are what ever ‘THEY’ want to be promoted as the death rate,” one post read.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/28/politics/pelosi-attack-suspect-conspiracy-theories-invs/index.html

 

So a guy who posted MAGA content, including about the Big Lie, states he wanted to take Pelosi as hostage in order to confront her with her lies, etc... and show the Dems their actions have consequences.

 

You will likely raise further doubts about it. In any case, it's surely much more significant than the absence of flags on the bus.

Topics like this are tiresome. The commonsense approach is surely to say the likelihood is 98 per cent plus that the story as told by the police about who the assailant is and what happened is correct. Available evidence backs this up. 

Therefore no need to waste space on this site turning your mind to alternative theories or stating that further evidence is needed before you can make a reasoned likely conclusion.  Otherwise there would need to be a similar discussion on each and every news story about the possibility it is false. Tiresome.

If there is some actual fact down the track that raises a real sense of doubt then speculate away at that time.

 

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by Fat is a type of crazy

34 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

 I suggest you wait then because your the one spreading doubt. The rest of us are giving facts

 

I am not spreading doubt, I am waiting for all the facts to be presented before reaching my conclusion.

 

You on the other hand have reached all your conclusions based on the statement of one police chief. 

 

I am sure you are aware of the four components of procedural justice. I don't believe any of them support abandoning due process a couple of days after an event like this.

Not sure if this has been posted before but maybe a timely reminder that this involves real people. From Nancy

 

"Our children, our grandchildren and I are heartbroken and traumatized by the life-threatening attack on our Pop," she wrote. "We are grateful for the quick response of law enforcement and emergency services, and for the life-saving medical care he is receiving. Please know that the outpouring of prayers and warm wishes from so many in the Congress is a comfort to our family and is helping Paul make progress with his recovery."

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-pelosi-attack-suspect-target-list-sources-say-nancy-pelosi-husband/

Multiple posts continuing to raise debunked claims and conspiracy theory content have been removed, along with multiple off-topic posts.

 

It's a good thing that Republican elected officials haven't engaged in behavior that could encourage this sort of thing...oh wait a minute...

Prominent conservatives share online disinformation about Paul Pelosi assault

'As members of Congress mull potential security enhancements following the Pelosi attack, the tone of Republican leaders’ responses is likely to draw continued scrutiny. Rep. Tom Emmer (R-Minn.), chair of the House GOP campaign arm, fielded tough questions on national TV Sunday regarding a tweet he posted of himself firing a gun with the hashtag "#FirePelosi.”'

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/31/conservatives-disinformation-paul-pelosi-assault-00064208

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I am not spreading doubt, I am waiting for all the facts to be presented before reaching my conclusion.

 

You on the other hand have reached all your conclusions based on the statement of one police chief. 

 

I am sure you are aware of the four components of procedural justice. I don't believe any of them support abandoning due process a couple of days after an event like this.

You on the other hand have reached all your conclusions based on the statement of one police chief.

 

Its not based on the conclusions of just one police chief though is it. Another example of your misinformation. There have been multiple witness statements from all sides. All are in unison with the facts presented.

Better than media relating the content, the orginal complaint and affidavit document is accessible here

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-charged-assault-and-attempted-kidnapping-following-breaking-and-entering-pelosi-residence

https://nypost.com/2022/10/31/paul-pelosi-attack-a-timeline-of-david-depapes-alleged-assault/

 

"DePape and Pelosi had gone downstairs by the time police arrived and knocked on the door, which the 82-year-old rushed to open.

 

“Pelosi grabbed onto DePape’s hammer, which was in DePape’s hand. At this point in the interview, DePape repeated that [he] did not plan to surrender and that he would go ‘through’ Pelosi.”

 

It was then he began beating Pelosi with the hammer, fracturing his skull in the process, cops said.

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by onthedarkside
unsubstantiated claim removed

22 minutes ago, candide said:

Better than media relating the content, the orginal complaint and affidavit document is accessible here

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-charged-assault-and-attempted-kidnapping-following-breaking-and-entering-pelosi-residence

Or possibly just as good, a video of the San Francisco DA's latest press release from PBS.

 

PBS is the most balanced, trusted and respected and independent News Agency is US.

 

 

Edited November 1, 20223 yr by LosLobo

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I am not spreading doubt, I am waiting for all the facts to be presented before reaching my conclusion.

 

You on the other hand have reached all your conclusions based on the statement of one police chief. 

 

I am sure you are aware of the four components of procedural justice. I don't believe any of them support abandoning due process a couple of days after an event like this.

Now that’s rich coming from you to cite procedural justice. You had much indignation of the due process resulting in the legal search of Marlago.