What to be careful when buying condo?

[parafareno]

I am in process of buying and the seller is changing his mind etc.. he lowered the price but he wants me to pay the land office tax, so me 100 %. And I cant see the deed.

He is foreign owner so the real estate agent said he does not want to give me a copy or just to show the deed. 

Is this normal? Or can there be financing on the deed or some extra costs?

what else could be the signs to be careful?

Also the agent pushed me to give 10 % deposit, so if I did then I would have to pay tax 100 % or they would take my deposit?

How to protect myself...seems the agent was not very trusting..... 

she just was pushing for deposit and i did not even get any paper of the total costs etc....

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by parafareno

[2baht]

No deed, no buy! Sounds dodgy!

[Lacessit]

Walk away. The deed may have a caveat or debt attached, which would be why the owner or real estate agent does not want you to see it.

Did you check the condo balcony for pigeon poo?

[nigelforbes]

It is customary for the buyer and seller to agree on who pays the Land Office charges at the time the sales price is agreed.

 

It is not necessary or even advisable to give a deposit, especially in todays market. Pay the entire amount at the Land Office.

 

You want to see the channote before hand, end of story. If their is a lien or a bank loan/charge on the property it will be shown on the back of the channote. If the seller wont show it to you, tell him to get stuffed and buy something else.

 

The agent wants the deposit because they want their fee early, tell them to get stuffed.

 

I wont even go into where or what you are buying, given the various threads you have started over the past month, taking advise doesn't seem to be one of your strengths.

[lexxy]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Did you check the condo balcony for pigeon poo?

asking the hard hitting questions i see...

 

As a long term condo owner you can do the following

1. Check the strata (maintanence) costs. My condo recently went from 30b to 43b psqm per month..

2. Check electric rate, some condos put extra on top.. should be like 4b per kwh?

3. Check the sinking fund..

4. Check how many extra fees per year.. we have had a few one offs including an extra 100k baht this year for new lifts

5. Check for bird poo on balcony, you may need to clean it.....

 

As for the guys reduction in price if you pay transfer fees.. deny that... its 50% fees all the way down so dont accept that and ask to see the chanot ofcourse or find a new condo..

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, lextsy said:

asking the hard hitting questions i see...

 

As a long term condo owner you can do the following

1. Check the strata (maintanence) costs. My condo recently went from 30b to 43b psqm per month..

2. Check electric rate, some condos put extra on top.. should be like 4b per kwh?

3. Check the sinking fund..

4. Check how many extra fees per year.. we have had a few one offs including an extra 100k baht this year for new lifts

5. Check for bird poo on balcony, you may need to clean it.....

 

As for the guys reduction in price if you pay transfer fees.. deny that... its 50% fees all the way down so dont accept that and ask to see the chanot ofcourse or find a new condo..

 It was a joke, Joyce. Based on another thread the OP has going.

The fact the agent is pressing the OP to pay a deposit without sighting the deed shrieks dodgy to me, no need to proceed to your thorough checklist.

[Peterw42]

56 minutes ago, parafareno said:

I am in process of buying and the seller is changing his mind etc.. he lowered the price but he wants me to pay the land office tax, so me 100 %.

Who pays what taxes isnt set down in law, and can always be used as a bargaining chip. (if the seller dropped 50k off the price then added 50k taxes to pay, then he didnt drop the price) . There are 3-4 taxes, and depending on sellers circumstances, can be significant. The agent should be able to give an exact figure, then you can decide , make a counter offer etc.

 

1 hour ago, parafareno said:

He is foreign owner so the real estate agent said he does not want to give me a copy or just to show the deed. 

Is this normal? Or can there be financing on the deed or some extra costs?

what else could be the signs to be careful?

Not exactly normal, but doesn't matter that much. If there is anything like a mortgage, debt, the seller isn't the actual owner etc, the sale wont go ahead at the land office. Again, the agent should at least have a copy of chanote.

 

1 hour ago, parafareno said:

Also the agent pushed me to give 10 % deposit, so if I did then I would have to pay tax 100 % or they would take my deposit?

A deposit is reasonably normal, but it would usually be paid when signing an initial sales contract, a contract stating price, who pays taxes, circumstances if/when the deposit would be refundable etc. (ie: only if seller fails to complete the sale).

 

Its a buyers market, so make an offer, price, who pays taxes, on a written contract, deposit refundable etc etc. If the seller says no, find another condo, 

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Who pays what taxes isnt set down in law, and can always be used as a bargaining chip. (if the seller dropped 50k off the price then added 50k taxes to pay, then he didnt drop the price) . There are 3-4 taxes, and depending on sellers circumstances, can be significant. The agent should be able to give an exact figure, then you can decide , make a counter offer etc.

 

Not exactly normal, but doesn't matter that much. If there is anything like a mortgage, debt, the seller isn't the actual owner etc, the sale wont go ahead at the land office. Again, the agent should at least have a copy of chanote.

 

A deposit is reasonably normal, but it would usually be paid when signing an initial sales contract, a contract stating price, who pays taxes, circumstances if/when the deposit would be refundable etc. (ie: only if seller fails to complete the sale).

 

Its a buyers market, so make an offer, price, who pays taxes, on a written contract, deposit refundable etc etc. If the seller says no, find another condo, 

Have you ever come across a Thai person who pays a deposit on a real estate transaction, I haven't. But there again, I've not may Thai's who use agents to buy and sell property and pay commissions! OP - DO NOT pay a deposit, not under any circumstances, I'm afraid to say the agent (and probably the buyer) saw you coming.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Have you ever come across a Thai person who pays a deposit on a real estate transaction, I haven't. But there again, I've not may Thai's who use agents to buy and sell property and pay commissions! OP - DO NOT pay a deposit, not under any circumstances, I'm afraid to say the agent (and probably the buyer) saw you coming.

yes, I have bought and sold a couple of condos and houses, to and from Thai people, and a deposit/sales contract was part of all those transactions, even if minimal and really just a show of good faith. 

Otherwise, you go to the land office next Tuesday, and the other party doesn't turn up. Or if they do, there are arguments about the final price, taxes etc.

What people call an agent in Thailand, is usually just someone you helps with the negotiations, does the leg work leading up to the sale, and helps both parties at the land office, and they are usually being paid by the seller. Otherwise, your average buyer/seller would have no idea of documents, land office procedure etc.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

If you don't know the details yourself then hire a professional who you trust to find out the details and make sure all is done properly.

 

Recently I bought a condo. I hired a guy who I know since years and who was an agent some time ago. I paid him a fixed amount for his work. He helped me from choosing the condo, checking out the building, how to transfer money for the payment, and the land office visit.

All of that was new to me because I never did it before. He did it probably at least 100 times.

 

I think for an important decision and official buying process with lots of money involved it is stupid to try this by yourself if you don't know what you are doing. And being able to read and write Thai is part of that.

Obviously, someone can be lucky and do it the first time himself and all is fine. But are you willing to take that risk? 

Oh, that's bad, someone should have told me...

 

P.S.: In my case the seller agreed that he pays all the transfer fees. He knew what to expect and I had the peace of mind not to worry. And I paid him with one check at the land office. No down payment. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by OneMoreFarang

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

yes, I have bought and sold a couple of condos and houses, to and from Thai people, and a deposit/sales contract was part of all those transactions, even if minimal and really just a show of good faith. 

Otherwise, you go to the land office next Tuesday, and the other party doesn't turn up. Or if they do, there are arguments about the final price, taxes etc.

What people call an agent in Thailand, is usually just someone you helps with the negotiations, does the leg work leading up to the sale, and helps both parties at the land office, and they are usually being paid by the seller. Otherwise, your average buyer/seller would have no idea of documents, land office procedure etc.

 

Minimal, yes, 10%, NO. 20k baht should show good faith.

[Celsius]

The reasons why second hand property in Thailand is a hard sell:

 

1. No buying incentive from government and developers. No free transfer. No free sinking fee. No free maintenance for 2 years, no land tax...etc.

 

2. The interest rate on second hand properties is always higher.

 

3. The mortgage loan can be arranged for the higher amount by developer so Thai can buy a Honda Civic.

 

4. After a few years the average second hand property looks like trash. Water leaks, worn out built in furniture, cracking laminate.....

 

5. Read the op

[scubascuba3]

One of the most important things is check the last annual accounts with minutes of AGM, you'll get a feel what's going on and what the full common fees are likely to be, likely far higher than those disclosed. Ideally see a few years.

 

For older buildings make sure you walk around the outside of the building to see how well maintained it is and how many people have ruined the look by building on the balcony

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

It is concerning that the seller will not provide the agent with a copy of the chanote or at least give sight of it.

 

I had no difficulty in obtaining a 10% deposit when I sold a condo to a Thai buyer a few years ago. Developers also require deposits when selling properties, whether condos or houses with land, and the vast majority of the buyers are Thai.

 

Individuals who don't use agents may dispense with the sale and purchase agreement and deposit and simply transact the sale at the Land Office, but I am not sure I would be comfortable with that either as a buyer or seller. The purchase and sale agreement can provide protections to both parties. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boyn]

We just bought a house in Hua Hin we paid a deposit and we used a lawyer she did everything and came to the land office with us, cost 40,000 Baht money well spent no worries.

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, Boyn said:

We just bought a house in Hua Hin we paid a deposit and we used a lawyer she did everything and came to the land office with us, cost 40,000 Baht money well spent no worries.

The fact is the Land Office does everything, the lawyer doesn't play a role other than to have a presence. And forgive me for saying so but 40k is quite expensive. A well known barrister in these parts charges 15k, including the visit to the Land Office which she tells us is not necessary but does make clients feel more comfortable.

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, Celsius said:

2. The interest rate on second hand properties is always higher.

Not sure where you get this from, mortgage rates are the same no matter what the property. There may be an introductory lower rate that lasts a couple of years, but otherwise, age of property or 2nd hand does not change the interest rate.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

The fact is the Land Office does everything, the lawyer doesn't play a role other than to have a presence. And forgive me for saying so but 40k is quite expensive. A well known barrister in these parts charges 15k, including the visit to the Land Office which she tells us is not necessary but does make clients feel more comfortable.

I imagine the 40k would have included setting up a company etc, to enable a foreign house buyer.

[Boyn]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

The fact is the Land Office does everything, the lawyer doesn't play a role other than to have a presence. And forgive me for saying so but 40k is quite expensive. A well known barrister in these parts charges 15k, including the visit to the Land Office which she tells us is not necessary but does make clients feel more comfortable.

Thanks for the reply but as i said 40000 baht to make sure everything was kosher and no stress to me was money well spent.

[Celsius]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not sure where you get this from, mortgage rates are the same no matter what the property. There may be an introductory lower rate that lasts a couple of years, but otherwise, age of property or 2nd hand does not change the interest rate.

You've been here long time. You should know better.

[Sparktrader]

Never Split the Difference

 

Read that book. Maybe then you not get screwed.

[Sparktrader]

1 ask for all paperwork upfront

2 no deposit

3 land office them 100%

4 i then give you quick deal if all ok

5 if you not agree bye bye

 

The seller is desperate ie you have all the power

 

Grind em into the dust or walk

 

[parafareno]

18 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Who pays what taxes isnt set down in law, and can always be used as a bargaining chip. (if the seller dropped 50k off the price then added 50k taxes to pay, then he didnt drop the price) . There are 3-4 taxes, and depending on sellers circumstances, can be significant. The agent should be able to give an exact figure, then you can decide , make a counter offer etc.

 

Not exactly normal, but doesn't matter that much. If there is anything like a mortgage, debt, the seller isn't the actual owner etc, the sale wont go ahead at the land office. Again, the agent should at least have a copy of chanote.

 

A deposit is reasonably normal, but it would usually be paid when signing an initial sales contract, a contract stating price, who pays taxes, circumstances if/when the deposit would be refundable etc. (ie: only if seller fails to complete the sale).

 

Its a buyers market, so make an offer, price, who pays taxes, on a written contract, deposit refundable etc etc. If the seller says no, find another condo, 

I could be really scammed.....but it is a one of the biggest real estate agencies here in Pattaya....the girl is practically hungrly for the deposit.....can a big company scam somebody? I mean what about their reputation?

[parafareno]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

 It was a joke, Joyce. Based on another thread the OP has going.

The fact the agent is pressing the OP to pay a deposit without sighting the deed shrieks dodgy to me, no need to proceed to your thorough checklist.

teh agent says she asked the owner for DEED and he laughed...because he is afraid she might use his deed to sell  a another property 

REALLY  with a picture on the phone of the deed you can sell a property?

Edited November 10, 2022 by parafareno

[parafareno]

20 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

It is customary for the buyer and seller to agree on who pays the Land Office charges at the time the sales price is agreed.

 

It is not necessary or even advisable to give a deposit, especially in todays market. Pay the entire amount at the Land Office.

 

You want to see the channote before hand, end of story. If their is a lien or a bank loan/charge on the property it will be shown on the back of the channote. If the seller wont show it to you, tell him to get stuffed and buy something else.

 

The agent wants the deposit because they want their fee early, tell them to get stuffed.

 

I wont even go into where or what you are buying, given the various threads you have started over the past month, taking advise doesn't seem to be one of your strengths.

very solid advice, thank you

[Bill Dauterive]

55 selling property without a deed shown or present....555