Beef cattle the future

[473geo]

Appreciate your thoughts and understand your dairy explanation, I worked dairy for 10 years in the UK 

These cattle are trundling along grazing riceland in the day, rice straw at night and a bit of dry feed now the riceland is drying up, we were just muddling along when these 'offers' started so we have not pushed the cattle for condition and as they are reared this far on the cheap we are now thinking of letting them go, also because we grow grass to cut and carry but that is currently being utilised by two cows with young calves and two in calf cows, we also have a new calved cow at the riceland and an in calf cow, so the grass we grow is not enough to go around during this dry spell, hence all cattle just now are getting a little hand feed 

 

[473geo]

[473geo]

At the back of my mind also is the saturation of the riceland around us with cattle and young calves, a dramatic increase in stock levels to me facilitates a buyers market as we are full to brim maybe better to shift a couple now 

[farmerjo]

8 hours ago, 473geo said:

At the back of my mind also is the saturation of the riceland around us with cattle and young calves, a dramatic increase in stock levels to me facilitates a buyers market as we are full to brim maybe better to shift a couple now 

There must be a weekly cattle market in the district,pop along to gauge prices.

Talk to a few individual sellers and keep away from the guys with big truck loads as they tend to do the market circuit.they will buy at a lower price as have more overheads.

You might even see the buyers who came to your farm in operation.

It's a good morning out.

[473geo]

[473geo]

[473geo]

3 hours ago, farmerjo said:

There must be a weekly cattle market in the district,pop along to gauge prices.

Talk to a few individual sellers and keep away from the guys with big truck loads as they tend to do the market circuit.they will buy at a lower price as have more overheads.

You might even see the buyers who came to your farm in operation.

It's a good morning out.

I have asked that very same question and as yet have had no suggestions, yes would love to visit a local market and will keep asking until we find one????

 

Mostly seems to be a visit to see the cattle in this area, I understand very prompt if word is out the owner 'needs' to sell 

 

For our situation have agreed with my wife, the dealers came along to supposedly look at the bull but as they do chanced their arm with low offers on other stuff 

Had another person wanting to 'buy' the heifer today for 9k but correctly guessing my wife doesn't want to sell right now for less than 12k we agreed to put them off 

 

Time is ticking by, in 2-3 months more grass will be available hopefully to put some weight onto the frames ????

 

It's a risk keeping everything but the low offers suggest not a great risk, of course as in this thread, my opinion and options are changeable and flexible ????

 

[kickstart]

That grass looks like Yar -Con in Thai, or Para Grass ,not a very high protein grass at best when shoots are young 4-5% protein ,and you are feeding rice straw protein 3-4%,your diet will be well down on energy ,those two together will provide the cattle with maintenance ,for production ie weight gain you will have to feed some concentrate ,can you get brewers grains were you are a good feed. 

That Wagyu looks well not the best of breeds for confirmation say compared with say Charolais or a Beefmaster, but as you say they seem popular where you are, as I said not so around here.

One thing our local DLD AI men and women around here have Wagyu semen, it will not be 100 %, ask where you might be the same.

 You are right with low inputs and low outputs you can make just as much money as a guy with his high inputs and high outputs, and you will have less to go wrong.

 

[473geo]

Agree the grass may not be the best, however, it grows quickly, survives well in eet conditions, we usually have two or three weeks in a year #where we pump out the water to keep the level down, we still cut grass and it keeps growing, in the second photo the grass is already coming in the far area cut beginning of March

These photos from this morning you may spot manure is put on the older cut areas already

[473geo]

Curtain came down on the sale today a local farmer offered 25.5k for the pair, discussed with my wife we agreed to accept ???? have done ok, hope the next guy does well, and comes back for more, I think a farmer, so looking at the end product, not how much he can turn them over for 

On a final note they didn't look so big in the truck as they did in the pen! so in the end happy with the result 

Resources will now go further regarding the remaining cattle. The potential overstocking concern eradicated for the time being ????

 

[farmerjo]

Did you get to feel the notes before going in the missus purse.????(joking)

I can tell a few yarns of guys around here who used to go to the cattle market the night before sales with the transporter..

That was around 2006 on,big party,lots of loaw khow,lots of gambling and add 30 baht for a look at a snatch with a cigarette lighter.

Problems started the next day when the cattle were sold to pay for the night before and the guys returned home with no baht and no cow.

That's when i realised why women here were always handing the Thai blokes money.

I was never allowed to go the night before and maybe that's why they are so hard to find.????

[473geo]

4 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Did you get to feel the notes before going in the missus purse.????(joking)

I can tell a few yarns of guys around here who used to go to the cattle market the night before sales with the transporter..

That was around 2006 on,big party,lots of loaw khow,lots of gambling and add 30 baht for a look at a snatch with a cigarette lighter.

Problems started the next day when the cattle were sold to pay for the night before and the guys returned home with no baht and no cow.

That's when i realised why women here were always handing the Thai blokes money.

I was never allowed to go the night before and maybe that's why they are so hard to find.????

Actually the guy counted the notes into tens passed to my wife who counted and tried to pass to me to check ???? didn't need to as was watching and counting with him so knew all was ok ???? so yes she kept hold of the cash ????

Its all good she works hard on the farm and I like she has her own money in her pocket to make her feel good about the hard work 

 

 

You could well be right about the market visits not materialising ????

[ThaiDuck2]

Thanks for the interesting thread.  Thanks Kickstart and 473geo

 

I have 6 rai in Pai, with water, and, for reasons no one can understand, including myself, I thought I might like to raise a few head of beef cattle.  

I currently buy my australian beef from makro, and I eat rib eye (cube roll) daily.

 

So tell me im stupid and crazy, talk me out of it, or, perhaps, give me some suggestions?



 

[kickstart]

20 hours ago, ThaiDuck2 said:

Thanks for the interesting thread.  Thanks Kickstart and 473geo

 

I have 6 rai in Pai, with water, and, for reasons no one can understand, including myself, I thought I might like to raise a few head of beef cattle.  

I currently buy my australian beef from makro, and I eat rib eye (cube roll) daily.

 

So tell me im stupid and crazy, talk me out of it, or, perhaps, give me some suggestions?



 

Sure, no problem, a good idea, where to start, first off breed of cattle, Angus, Beefmaster or Charolais would be ideal, but anything above 75% of one of these breeds will result in heat stress, Beefmaster is the exception they originated from the hot parts of the USA and can stand the heat.

 The easy way is what we do. find some Thai Native X Brahman heifer's they are about you will know them they have short ears, from the Thai Natives, do not buy any long-eared cattle/ things, they just do not get fat, then ask your local Department of Livestock Development or in Thai Gom -Pa-sue-Sat

to AI your cattle with the above semen, they should have it.

Then feeding your cattle look at the DLD web site they have different varieties of grass seed, Mulato II, Mombasa Guinea, plus other varieties or look at Ubon Grass Seeds, the owner is Michal Hare, who has posted on here knows all about grass seed., a lot depends on your soil type.

You could do a cut and cart system -hard work -cattle have feet and can walk, you could use a grazing system, I use to do a strip grazing system using electric fences worked well. with water you should be ok in the dry season by irrigating the grass

You will need some concentrate feed should be able to sauce it locale and some cattle minerals.

The main question how many cattle, I would start off with say 3-4 heifers with their calves, remember cattle grow, 3-4 cows plus fully grow heifers or bulls will soon shift a lot of feed. 

[473geo]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:41 PM, ThaiDuck2 said:

Thanks for the interesting thread.  Thanks Kickstart and 473geo

 

I have 6 rai in Pai, with water, and, for reasons no one can understand, including myself, I thought I might like to raise a few head of beef cattle.  

I currently buy my australian beef from makro, and I eat rib eye (cube roll) daily.

 

So tell me im stupid and crazy, talk me out of it, or, perhaps, give me some suggestions?



 

Well I guess you will need a shed, this to cover the cattle in the wet season, depending on drainage on your land they may not go out much wet season. 

I would suggest a good starting point buy an in calf (young cow) if possible or a cow with calf at foot, maturing heifer calves to motherhood is a 3 year process, apologies if you are a farmer and understand this already ????

Feed, we graze riceland outside the annual growing season not much on it but pickings and the cattle enjoy being out in the sun, we feed rice straw from our own crop, (would you have to buy?) a little bought hand feed and our sprinkler fed grass which does the job for us 

Is your land fenced off from straying cattle, or perhaps no other cattle around? 

Due to the increase in cattle roaming looking for food we will probably electric fence our rice land next year after the rice crop and due to the amount of roaming cattle finding our grass we have today bought posts to fence off the last openside ????

Lastly, I enjoy my daily routine, cycling to the farm twice a day, putting manure out on the new cut grassland, cutting and carrying, work shared with my wife, life is interesting always something going on and it sure beats watching rice grow ????

 

Any questions will surely get an answer here, good bad or possibly indifferent ???? enjoy 

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

they wont fart and wear nappies and be made of weeds

[kickstart]

On 3/16/2023 at 6:00 PM, 473geo said:

I would suggest a good starting point buy an in calf (young cow) if possible or a cow with calf at foot, maturing heifer calves to motherhood is a 3 year process,

A yes and no, yes as it give you a instant heard, buying g a cow and calf, but you then have to get that cow back in calf.

All cows when they calve will lose weight ,they use all they energy resorces to produce milk for the calf ,hens the loss of weight, you buy a cow and calf in she could well be thin ,will not come on heat ,just not fertile ,if she is a first calving heifer makes the job even harder ,first calvers need feed for producing milk for the calf and for her self to  grow and to become fertile ,producing milk and growing  can be done becoming fertile not easy ,same problem the dairy heifers ,getting some back in calf is mission  impossible.

If you buy in some heifer's you can feed them ,also pick the breed of bull to use ,when they calve you can feed them prevent them from the weight loss .in theory she has calved for 3 months she should come on heat and  hold to service .

Looking back at our records our heifers are calving at 26-28 months of age, getting them calving earlier makes them more  productive .

I read a paper a long while ago saying heifers calving at 3 years old, some are even older makes them more difficult to get back in calf, reason why did they calve at 3 years plus ,just not fertile to get in calf ?,and it carrey's on in future years .

As I said growing some good quality grass is more than half the problem.

[kickstart]

I have been writing about growing grass for cattle, these are 2 photos from our grassland guru Michal Hear posted a while ago, the grass is Mombasa Guinee as you can see it has been irrigated. I would say this grass is 45 days old?

Grass like this cut young, cattle will do well you could most certainly cut back on concentrate feed, it can be done, Michal said this is a goat farm ,luck goats. 

[473geo]

Be interesting to know how much fertiliser was used to speed growth?

[CLW]

15 hours ago, 473geo said:

Be interesting to know how much fertiliser was used to speed growth?

For short term Urea will do the deal. It is cheap but not good for soil in the long term.

Depends how long you are going to let the grass seedling in the soil of that particular field.

Using manure, compost or any organic soil amendment will pay back in few years

[473geo]

1 hour ago, CLW said:

For short term Urea will do the deal. It is cheap but not good for soil in the long term.

Depends how long you are going to let the grass seedling in the soil of that particular field.

Using manure, compost or any organic soil amendment will pay back in few years

Similar grass I have seen appears not to regrow and disappears in the dry season, does irrigation solve this or is this grass to replant regularly? 

Too much urea/Nitrogen would make grass bitter would it not, hence cattle will eat cut green rice but appear to be not so keen on too much due to the bitter taste

[473geo]

Interesting a neighbour who sold some good quality Charollais for 30k, similar to kickstarts Angus, reared for the latter part inside on hand feed, is left with 2 more at 15 months, good looking cattle but no offers just now so the cost is creeping up, and according to word of mouth prices are a flat and not improving 

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, 473geo said:

Interesting a neighbour who sold some good quality Charollais for 30k, similar to kickstarts Angus, reared for the latter part inside on hand feed, is left with 2 more at 15 months, good looking cattle but no offers just now so the cost is creeping up, and according to word of mouth prices are a flat and not improving 

Same around here, Charolais do seem to hold they price more so than other breeds, most of ours are crosses from dairy cows, have seen some Brahman X Carolais they are nearly all nice-looking cattle.

One of my beef cows is due to calve next month with a Charolais, tried a Beefmaster and a Angus on her did not hold, the Charoiais did her third calf ,she is finding it hard work dose not go far ,just hope the calf is not to big have cut back on her feed over past month hoping that might slow the calves growth rate down ,she is due on 23ed April ,but have found with Charolais and often Brahman they can easily go 7-10 days over that date and  still calve alright .

As you said price are low ,and if it like other times when prices drop it will be for some time yet .

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, 473geo said:

Similar grass I have seen appears not to regrow and disappears in the dry season, does irrigation solve this or is this grass to replant regularly? 

Too much urea/Nitrogen would make grass bitter would it not, hence cattle will eat cut green rice but appear to be not so keen on too much due to the bitter taste

With this grass seed no need to plant regularly with good management it should last a few years, same with a lot of other grass seeds ,waterlogging can be a problem most grass do not like waterlogging and will die .

Michal Hare wrote a paper about waterlogging gras fields in Thailand he did some research with Mulato II left one area grew well, I think it was 2 other areas one had a lot of water the other was sat in water ,that area died the other picked up but did not do so well .

I did wonder how much urea was used the photo come from Issan, with their light soil not so fertile, urea will probably be the main way the grass can grow 

Urea should not make the grass bitter, as CLW knows Duch dairy farmers are having big problems with urea from dairy farms getting into water causes, when I wa they a few years ago summer time, grass growing every were and was being cut for silage as well. 

[CLW]

14 hours ago, kickstart said:

Urea should not make the grass bitter

Reading that reminds me that as a temporary solution you could even add tiny amounts of urea to low-protein feeds like straw to increase protein content and feed to cattle.

 

https://www.yara.com/industrial-nitrogen/animal-nutrition/animal-grade-urea/#:~:text=Urea can be used to,grazing feed quality is poor.

[farmerjo]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:57 PM, 473geo said:

Interesting a neighbour who sold some good quality Charollais for 30k, similar to kickstarts Angus, reared for the latter part inside on hand feed, is left with 2 more at 15 months, good looking cattle but no offers just now so the cost is creeping up, and according to word of mouth prices are a flat and not improving 

On my way to Khon Kaen yesterday i passed the Nong Rua cattle market.(50 km's to KK)

Didn't have time to call in but it was busy driving by.

By eye must of been 500 cattle there.

 

 

 

[kickstart]

9 hours ago, CLW said:

Reading that reminds me that as a temporary solution you could even add tiny amounts of urea to low-protein feeds like straw to increase protein content and feed to cattle.

 

https://www.yara.com/industrial-nitrogen/animal-nutrition/animal-grade-urea/#:~:text=Urea can be used to,grazing feed quality is poor.

Yes Recipe 100 kg or straw,100kg  water 5 kg? of urea, mix water /urea pour over straw, cover for 21 days, then feed to cattle, it increases the protein of the straw and helps brakes down the Celulose of the straw, making it more digestible. 

[473geo]

13 hours ago, kickstart said:

Yes Recipe 100 kg or straw,100kg  water 5 kg? of urea, mix water /urea pour over straw, cover for 21 days, then feed to cattle, it increases the protein of the straw and helps brakes down the Celulose of the straw, making it more digestible. 

Seems a bit of a faff, think will stick to a mix of dry feed, cut and carry grass, and rice straw, cattle appear to be doing ok and we are not looking to get the in calf cows fat just in good condition

In calf are not out every day in this heat the cut and carry ensures they enjoy some grass

 

[473geo]

15 hours ago, farmerjo said:

On my way to Khon Kaen yesterday i passed the Nong Rua cattle market.(50 km's to KK)

Didn't have time to call in but it was busy driving by.

By eye must of been 500 cattle there.

 

 

 

Not even sure how the 'auctions'  work, is there an actual auction or is it a gathering where the buyers wander through and make offers?

[farmerjo]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

Not even sure how the 'auctions'  work, is there an actual auction or is it a gathering where the buyers wander through and make offers?

Yes buyers wander thru and make offers.

Quite often swaps will happen as well.

There was a small cost on entry then the fee to transfer ownership and transport documents.

Never saw any scales so you need a good eye for weights.