Beef cattle the future

[farmerjo]

9 hours ago, 473geo said:

Seems a bit of a faff, think will stick to a mix of dry feed, cut and carry grass, and rice straw, cattle appear to be doing ok and we are not looking to get the in calf cows fat just in good condition

In calf are not out every day in this heat the cut and carry ensures they enjoy some grass

 

I was a believer of giving the cattle a lick of molasses.

It encouraged them to eat dry grass if that was only available in the dry season.

Certainly made life a lot easier.

 

[473geo]

[473geo]

Our grass today, doing ok, regrowth coming along nicely, manure laid shortly after cutting, usually within a week, so far we have used half a bag of 27/12/6 

[still kicking]

On 11/15/2022 at 1:10 PM, ozimoron said:

I'm no expert but I come from cattle country. There will never be an oversupply of beef.

Not if the vegans have their say

[473geo]

10 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

I was a believer of giving the cattle a lick of molasses.

It encouraged them to eat dry grass if that was only available in the dry season.

Certainly made life a lot easier.

 

I am actually surprised at how our cows appear to enjoy the rice straw, even after having a feed of grass, we have used molasses but found they were eating our straw well without ????

[kickstart]

13 hours ago, farmerjo said:

22 hours ago, 473geo said:

Seems a bit of a faff, think will stick to a mix of dry feed, cut and carry grass, and rice straw, cattle appear to be doing ok and we are not looking to get the in calf cows fat just in good condition

In calf are not out every day in this heat the cut and carry ensures they enjoy some grass

 

I was a believer of giving the cattle a lick of molasses.

It encouraged them to eat dry grass if that was only available in the dry season.

Certainly made life a lot easier.

 

It might be a bit of a faff, but they is a big but behind it.

Thai dairy framers rear they cattle on the American way, cattle are in the sheds the hole time and fed is brought to them, in the USA farms have land where they can grow corn to make silage and feed that to cattle the whole time plus other feeds.

Here in Thailand a lot of farms only have a few rie ,no land to grow anything, so they have to buy in all they feed stuffs, main sauce of forage being rice straw, as  I have said before rice straw is short of everything 3-4% protein very low energy levels and even lower vitamins and minerals.

So, the idea of treated rice straw is to increase the feed vale of it ,I first did it 20 years ago, a few farmers use to do it some had some bunkers in one bunker making it and one bunker feeding.

Not seen it done for a few years now, farmers just to lazy to do it or what, some say milk yield did increase and cows eat more straw, could increase there fertility, but did not see many signs of that

FJ, Molasses is a good feed, as you said popular in Auss, along with the Molasse/urea feed blocks, just put a few blocks out for the cattle to lick, as a supplement feed in the dry season .

I have seen the feed block over here imported not cheap Thai farmers never seen them before, never caught on again some years ago I made some they worked well again a no- no never caught on.

Molasses has been feed over here the Thai way, mix it with water and pour it over rice straw, waste of time the watered-down molasses had no feed value, then molasses was cheap, now I think it about 9 baht/kg.

[Mark CM]

I'd like to learn more about the system for raising and selling beef cattle in northern Thailand. In recent years, I see that many of the local 'ranchers' are releasing their herds to graze in the public forests- even inside protected areas.  I don't think their is any kind of a permitting or regulatory process involved with this practice; it seems to be mostly the 'wild west' environment.  There aren't any large predators left in the Thai forests, so I imagine they don't lose many. Some of these guys are now lighting the forest floor on fire to encourage the grass to grow and this is making the air quality horrendously bad, among other problems.  Are these cattle typically finished in Thailand and then processed here as well, or are some of them being shipped directly, without time in a CAFO, to China?  I see news reports of plans by the Lao PDR to sell 500,000 head a year to the Chinese. Last year, they sold about 50,000 head to China, so it seems clear where this is going. Are the mountain Thais also selling direct to the Chinese, or is it all kept in-country? Does anybody have suggestions for a website(s) or perhaps an official report where I could learn more about this? Thanks.

[kickstart]

On 4/4/2023 at 4:40 PM, Mark CM said:

I'd like to learn more about the system for raising and selling beef cattle in northern Thailand. In recent years, I see that many of the local 'ranchers' are releasing their herds to graze in the public forests- even inside protected areas.  I don't think their is any kind of a permitting or regulatory process involved with this practice; it seems to be mostly the 'wild west' environment.  There aren't any large predators left in the Thai forests, so I imagine they don't lose many. Some of these guys are now lighting the forest floor on fire to encourage the grass to grow and this is making the air quality horrendously bad, among other problems.  Are these cattle typically finished in Thailand and then processed here as well, or are some of them being shipped directly, without time in a CAFO, to China?  I see news reports of plans by the Lao PDR to sell 500,000 head a year to the Chinese. Last year, they sold about 50,000 head to China, so it seems clear where this is going. Are the mountain Thais also selling direct to the Chinese, or is it all kept in-country? Does anybody have suggestions for a website(s) or perhaps an official report where I could learn more about this? Thanks.

Very little Thai beef is exported, most farms are not geared up for that type of beef production, one reason to produce any beef cost need to be kept down, which Thais cannot do too much of a reliance on expensive concentrate, not enough on growing any forage for themselves .so keeping costs down.

I know you can buy Thai Angus beef in prepacks frozen in Macrow if the same company has any for exports  I would not know, same as the Thia French beef company they do export if so it would not be a lot 

If you look at a Thai mountain very little if any, area for producing beef, maybe a few farms with a few head of stock selling for the local market as for export very little if any. if so, would it be going to China I would not know, but I would say no .

Thailand doses have a market for exporting in calf dairy heifer's, a few years ago a lot went to Vietnam, Malasia is another market, I think they are still sent down they .

 

[473geo]

Had a visitor the other day that looked at our big cow and a reasonable to good quality calf 

He told my wife he had sold similar both for 21k 

Only a month ago we were offered 30k but wouldn't sell our best quality cow 

I am seeing a range of 40 baht to 70 baht for live beef take an price of say 60 baht for quality non wagyu 500kg 30k is a bit short of where we were a few months ago 

[kickstart]

4 hours ago, 473geo said:

Had a visitor the other day that looked at our big cow and a reasonable to good quality calf 

He told my wife he had sold similar both for 21k 

Only a month ago we were offered 30k but wouldn't sell our best quality cow 

I am seeing a range of 40 baht to 70 baht for live beef take an price of say 60 baht for quality non wagyu 500kg 30k is a bit short of where we were a few months ago 

That price of 40-70 baht, I take it that is per Kg?, as you said 30K for a 500 kg animal is well short of what it was.

Back in January we got 33K for a 280 kg beef bull, around here you can still get 80-90 baht/kg, but the animal has to be in good condition.

One local cattle buyer has said the low beef price is knock on effect from the dairy industry, dairy cow prices are still low, farmers are still saying feed prices are high, farmers are giving up, one local slaughterhouse is not taking any thin cull dairy cows, which most are.

Your other problem is a buyer is buying from you, then he will sell it on to another farmer, so he will be thinking how much he can make buying and selling.

Cattle prices have been high for a good few years now, the market has always been up and down, but this time it has come down a long way, with the future not looking like a price increase.

But the wife is still paying 250baht/kg for beef at our local market, same as it has been for a few years now. 

[marke985]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:14 PM, 473geo said:

I am actually surprised at how our cows appear to enjoy the rice straw, even after having a feed of grass, we have used molasses but found they were eating our straw well without ????

Mine are the same way.  we cut and carry native grass almost everyday as I try hard not to use the rice straw, but on days of heavy rain or something comes up and we cant cut the grass they do seem to like to eat the rice straw. (well about 75% of it and leave the rest)

[G Rex]

I worked for 30 years in Southern Australia with beef (hereford & angus mostly) and dairy cattle (as a vet!). In Thailand I could not bare to raise these miserable Bos indicus cattle.

In Oz I had several clients with Wagyu, and feel that these insipid looking beasts would fit in well in Thailand! (sorry - maybe my personal bias is showing!) 

Getting on topic - my MIL bought a bull & a pregnant cow with heifer calf at foot last March (2022) for 25K.  After 1 year of feeding, watering, my FIL spending hours every week collecting the bull from neighbouring properties, MIL finally realised the folly in her ways - and sold all of the cattle (now 4) for 21K (in April 23).  This probably shows the state of the market - and the hazards of "hobby farming". 

 

Personally - I am much happier sitting on my backside watching the Cassava grow!

Edited July 1, 2023 by G Rex
incorrect spelling

[473geo]

Somebody offered 23k for a Thai cow and a 4 month old calf 

We accepted because we are over stocked also have a heifer coming through as a replacement

In the grand scheme of things a reasonable price considering we are stretched on grass resource 

[kickstart]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:54 PM, G Rex said:

I worked for 30 years in Southern Australia with beef (hereford & angus mostly) and dairy cattle (as a vet!). In Thailand I could not bare to raise these miserable Bos indicus cattle.

In Oz I had several clients with Wagyu, and feel that these insipid looking beasts would fit in well in Thailand! (sorry - maybe my personal bias is showing!) 

Getting on topic - my MIL bought a bull & a pregnant cow with heifer calf at foot last March (2022) for 25K.  After 1 year of feeding, watering, my FIL spending hours every week collecting the bull from neighbouring properties, MIL finally realised the folly in her ways - and sold all of the cattle (now 4) for 21K (in April 23).  This probably shows the state of the market - and the hazards of "hobby farming". 

 

Personally - I am much happier sitting on my backside watching the Cassava grow!

They are Wagyu cattle in Thailand ,and most Thais know they value a lot better than your Bos Indicus things.

But it is finding the market for the premium price they should command ,no use asking your cattle dealer to buy your Wagyu, as he would have no one to sell it on too.

They are company's that will buy Wagyu ,one in Korat, that is a co-op and very fussy they are to, must use certain breed of Dams, Charolais x Brahman, they is another company is Surin ,they sell locally AN's Kwie Bar has been involved with them.

But, it is not 100% Wagyu ,the breeding comes from Australia, even then it is not 100% Wagyu only cross breeds, farm near my has an imported Wagyu bull from Aus ,one guy  I know had some semen from an  ET, Embro Transfer bull, again that would not be more than 50% Wagyu?over here a lot is put on dairy cows ,so by the time you have your calf it could only be 30%? Wagyu.

But they are not over popular a lot of farmers say they are too small, Thai's like big cattle, one reason you do not see any Jersey, or Jersey X cattle over here in dairy herds, despite the fact they would do well over here. 

[geo473]

So guys it's been a while 

During which time the market here has taken a considerable dip here

There are a lot of decent quality charolais cattle around this area not selling well at all 

Lesser quality it would appear people taking what they are offered

We have two decent cattle and we were asked what we would sell for I put my bottom end value of both for 20k the answer came back can't do that, so from that conversation the buyer was just been polite and was not interested, unless, we happened to be offloading cheap 

My thought is feed them to kill out weight it may take a while

 

So how are prices with you guys, and your thoughts on the current cattle trade situation?

[Rimmer]

Five duplicate posts have been removed

[geo473]

3 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

Five duplicate posts have been removed

Thank you 😊

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, geo473 said:

So guys it's been a while 

During which time the market here has taken a considerable dip here

There are a lot of decent quality charolais cattle around this area not selling well at all 

Lesser quality it would appear people taking what they are offered

We have two decent cattle and we were asked what we would sell for I put my bottom end value of both for 20k the answer came back can't do that, so from that conversation the buyer was just been polite and was not interested, unless, we happened to be offloading cheap 

My thought is feed them to kill out weight it may take a while

 

So how are prices with you guys, and your thoughts on the current cattle trade situation?

In a nutshell not good, I would say the Charolais cattle, the owners will not budge on price, which they what, but above market price, because they are Ch cattle, so they are keeping them, they probably brought them when the price was higher, but it is a catch 22 situation, they are keeping them, but they are still feeding them hoping the price will go up, odds of them making any thing are not high.

We have a Ch x bull about 11 moths old I would want 20k for him, I think we would that, he is no problem so we will keep him for another few months.

Beef cattle prices are going hand in hand with dairy cow's prices market still not good, dairy farmers are still giving up same problem expensive feed and debt levels.

I cannot see the prices going up for a while, it has done this before prices drop then increase, but this time they seem set on a low price for some time to come.