Rockets or missiles reported to have landed in Poland near Ukrainian border, killing 2

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2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No he didnt , Russia has never been asked to join NATO

Lord Robertson, who was head of NATO said this:

“Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Lord Robertson, who was head of NATO said this:

“Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

Before I open that link and read it .

Does your link state that Russia was asked to join NATO and Russia Rejected the offer ?

  Please don't waste my time sending me links that do not have to info you claim it does 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Before I open that link and read it .

Does your link state that Russia was asked to join NATO and Russia Rejected the offer ?

  Please don't waste my time sending me links that do not have to info you claim it does 

Well, nobody gets asked. But they certainly had the opportunity. And Putin certainly rejected it. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, nobody gets asked. But they certainly had the opportunity. And Putin certainly rejected it. 

Putin/Russia were never asked to join NATO and they never rejected the offer (because there was never an offer to reject)

   

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Putin/Russia were never asked to join NATO and they never rejected the offer (because there was never an offer to reject)

   

Nato made it clear that Russia could have applied like everyone else, Putin wanted to but it was Putin and Putin alone who rejected the idea based on his reasoning:

 

‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nato made it clear that Russia could have applied like everyone else, Putin wanted to but it was Putin and Putin alone who rejected the idea based on his reasoning:

 

‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

Have you lost touch with reality ?

Russia wanted to join NATO , but they didn't want to go through the process of joining .

   Russia never applied to join NATO and neither were they asked to join NATO and Russia never rejected the offer to join NATO .

   The sentence you posted above above , well can you not understand what it means ?

   

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Have you lost touch with reality ?

Russia wanted to join NATO , but they didn't want to go through the process of joining .

   Russia never applied to join NATO and neither were they asked to join NATO and Russia never rejected the offer to join NATO .

   The sentence you posted above above , well can you not understand what it means ?

   

No but I can sense someone who has:

 

Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

No but I can sense someone who has:

 

Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

Yes, but your link doesn't state that Putin rejected the opportunity to join NATO .

   That is what we are talking about .

 

  

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, but your link doesn't state that Putin rejected the opportunity to join NATO .

   That is what we are talking about .

 

  

What does that say to you?

 ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

What does that say to you?

 ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

 

It says that he isnt going to apply to join NATO

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

It says that he isnt going to apply to join NATO

So back to my previous post that you disputed:

 

22 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nato made it clear that Russia could have applied like everyone else, Putin wanted to but it was Putin and Putin alone who rejected the idea based on his reasoning:

 

‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”

 

[Damrongsak]

On 11/16/2022 at 3:46 AM, rgraham said:

Of course, just a few days ago he did not know if he was in Columbia or Cambodia.

Colombodia is a big country.  It gets confusing with all the time zones and whatnot.  Jet lag ...

[Scott]

Baiting, bickering posts and replies removed.

 

[nausea]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:31 PM, Northstar1 said:

If the Russian people didn’t start this mess it wouldn’t have happened! 
more innocent people are dying, tit for tat?

bomb the farg out of Russian cities and infrastructure!

make their innocent people suffer as well!

Awakening the Bear is not a good idea, as Napoleon and Hitler found out. The Russians may have many faults in Western eyes, but one thing they are good at is War, at least in their own area of influence. Escalatory dominance and all that.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, nausea said:

Awakening the Bear is not a good idea, as Napoleon and Hitler found out. The Russians may have many faults in Western eyes, but one thing they are good at is War, at least in their own area of influence. Escalatory dominance and all that.

Russians aren't doing too well in Ukraine are they and it was mainly the cold weather that helped Russia beat the Germans 

[nausea]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Russians aren't doing too well in Ukraine are they

We'll see. Being a UK guy I hope you're right. I fear we're seeing the calm before the storm. The Russians are very good at war. They play a long game, very suited to the chess they're so addicted to, along with the odd judo move Putin is famed for. My biggest fear is that the UK, European, and US, leadership are losing the plot. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, nausea said:

We'll see. Being a UK guy I hope you're right. I fear we're seeing the calm before the storm. The Russians are very good at war. They play a long game, very suited to the chess they're so addicted to, along with the odd judo move Putin is famed for. My biggest fear is that the UK, European, and US, leadership are losing the plot. 

Russians didn't do too well in Afghanistan either 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, nausea said:

We'll see. Being a UK guy I hope you're right. I fear we're seeing the calm before the storm. The Russians are very good at war. They play a long game, very suited to the chess they're so addicted to, along with the odd judo move Putin is famed for. My biggest fear is that the UK, European, and US, leadership are losing the plot. 

Russians didn't do too well in Afghanistan either 

[nausea]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Russians didn't do too well in Afghanistan either 

Not the best of comparisons, given the US withdrawal.  Neither did the British. The point is you threaten Russia with an existential crisis, they aren't gonna sit on their laurels and cry.  This was about destroying the Russian economy with sanctions. That failed. Now you're just reiforcing failure. Who's winning here? 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, nausea said:

We'll see. Being a UK guy I hope you're right. I fear we're seeing the calm before the storm. The Russians are very good at war. They play a long game, very suited to the chess they're so addicted to, along with the odd judo move Putin is famed for. My biggest fear is that the UK, European, and US, leadership are losing the plot. 

The Russians are good at war when defending Mother Russia. They are also good at sacrificing their troops in the pursuit of overwhelming by numbers.

Immediately the current war started, Ukraine mobilized everyone. Men of military age were forbidden to leave the country. Since the Crimea annexation, Ukraine has been equipping and training their military for the next conflict.

The results are there for the world to see. Russians don't really know what they are fighting for, Ukrainians do. Russian morale is at rock bottom, the partial mobilization resulted in hundreds of thousands of Russians leaving to avoid conscription.

The Ukrainians have exposed how weak Russia really is. Equipment that gets blown up or left behind on the battlefield. Is there any country that would buy a Russian tank or helicopter now? The Ukrainians disrupted logistics wholesale, leaving Russian tanks without fuel, and soldiers without food. They have fought far more cleverly than the Russians, whose only remaining strategy is to target energy infrastructure and civilians.

They used to say General Winter was Russia's best general. Ukrainians are just as used to winter as the Russians.

Your post is disconnected from reality.

[internationalism]

polish president duda was called on the day of this "accident" by 2 notorious russian pranksters, pretending to be macron.

In a conversation lasting over 7 minutes he said about earlier conversations with biden, zelensky and jensen.

He also said that he would never push for clause 5, even if really attacked by russia.

Duda ended that conversation, after prankster changed his french accent to russian accent. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63719010

 

there are many more detailed articles  than that one from the bbc, with full transcript of this conversation and audio record 

Edited November 23, 2022 by internationalism

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Not the best of comparisons, given the US withdrawal.  Neither did the British. The point is you threaten Russia with an existential crisis, they aren't gonna sit on their laurels and cry.  This was about destroying the Russian economy with sanctions. That failed. Now you're just reiforcing failure. Who's winning here? 

Why do you think the sanctions are not working?

US failure in Afghanistan doesn't invalid the comparison.

[internationalism]

the ukrainian "accident" might be turning into something different. The polish authorities first granted ukrainian investigators visit to blast side, to later deny them access. As polish investigation was developing they became suspicious something wasn't right with ukrainian constant denial of facts presented to them from the NATO missile tracking data.

From the initial reaction of polish authorities (high level alert for military, emergency security council meeting and calling in to the ministry of foreign affairs a russian ambassador) they were trying to escalate tension for the benefit of their domestic war propaganda, allowing them to manipulate public into supporting hawkish government - even if they knew that it wasn't russian missile.

But at the same time Duda hoax shows that he was downplaying it internationally.

 

In effect 2 batteries of german Patriot antimissile systems are moving from germany to east border of poland. This would allow not only for defence of border, but also to establish no fly zone over the western ukraine. 

And that means escalation, because russian pilots would retaliate at those systems if shoot at.

Probably russia will make an ultimatum against shooting their missiles