Jump to content

Motorcycle Endorsement


TimLMT
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 11/30/2022 at 1:12 PM, Kwasaki said:

Meanwhile if you have not ridden motorbike before practice in quiet roads near where you live on a twist and go scooter like a Honda Click. 

A scooter is much difficult to ride and master than any bike with larger wheels. So a Honda click is not a good choice.

FWIW I have been riding bikes for the last 53 years with several hundreds of thousands of miles and in quite a reasonably large number of countries travelled.

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A scooter is much difficult to ride and master than any bike with larger wheels. So a Honda click is not a good choice.

FWIW I have been riding bikes for the last 53 years with several hundreds of thousands of miles and in quite a reasonably large number of countries travelled.

A scooter IMO is much less difficult to ride and master than a bigger bike because it weighs less. I would no more think of getting on a Honda CBR or Harley than I would think of driving an F1 racing car around a GP track, I know my limitations.

FWIW I had never driven a scooter until I was 68 yo. I got my motorbike DL in Australia and Thailand at age 69. Ten years later, touch wood, no accidents, so I must be doing something right.

I remember a neighbor in Oz whose GF tried to ride his BMW. Of course, she fell over, and scratched all the fairings on one side. Inevitable, because the bike weighed more than she did.

I don't know where you get the idea a bike with larger wheels is more controllable. I guess at 120 km/hr it may be, but I usually stick to half that speed at most.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 11/30/2022 at 8:29 AM, Kwasaki said:

Yes. 

Erm...  Theoretically yes... Sometimes in practice, no... 

 

I obtained a Thai Motorcycle Licence with my UK Driving Licence. 

 

Enforcement A_79(3) is for ’trikes’....  But the picture looks like a motorcycle.

 

I guess the DLT in Thailand do not know this and thus were happy to issue a Motorcycle Licence based on this endorsement. 

 

As always, experiences my vary, of course.

 

 

 

Screenshot 2022-12-03 at 07.53.28.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A scooter is much difficult to ride and master than any bike with larger wheels. So a Honda click is not a good choice.

FWIW I have been riding bikes for the last 53 years with several hundreds of thousands of miles and in quite a reasonably large number of countries travelled.

Very strange comment. 

A scooter is much much easier to master....  

Twist and go... no clutch, no gears, no footbrake, a scooter is a lot lighter, easier to handle in traffic. 

 

A larger motorcycle with larger wheels is more stable when riding at a reasonable speed and has better brakes etc when riding at speed...  but it takes a little time to master, particularly in heavy traffic, feathering the clutch etc... 

 

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@TimLMT  Good luck with your licence application. Over the last 40 years I've owned and ridden mopeds, commuter bikes, dirt bikes, big sports bikes and now a Honda scooter. Got to say that riding the scooter is just so easy. No need to think about gears etc. Disc brakes and antilocking safe too. Just perfect for riding in Thailand. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

A scooter IMO is much less difficult to ride and master than a bigger bike because it weighs less.

That is incorrect. Did you pay attention to the point that I specified “any bike with larger wheels”

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I got my motorbike DL in Australia and Thailand at age 69

So you have probably at least 45 years less experience than I have and a few hundred thousand miles less.

 

the point of using a bike with larger wheels is that the gyroscopic effect makes them more stable so given 2 small bikes of equal weight the one with the larger wheels is more stable once it is moving than the small wheeled one

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

I remember a neighbor in Oz whose GF tried to ride his BMW. Of course, she fell over, and scratched all the fairings on one side. Inevitable, because the bike weighed more than she did.

The weight of the bike is not a significant factor with an experienced rider, it was inexperience not weight that caused the fall

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

 

I don't know where you get the idea a bike with larger wheels is more controllable. I guess at 120 km/hr it may be, but I usually stick to half that speed at most.

See above, the controllability is not primarily a factor of speed though at higher speeds the gyroscopic effect is greater and certainly at 170kmh it’s definitely preferable to have the stability of large wheels.

 

even at low speeds large wheels are a significant advantage. You should try the Japanese unlimited motorcycle test that involves a Balance beam.  15 metres long; 30cm wide. To be crossed over (feet up) in 7 seconds for medium bikes and 10 seconds for big bikes. FWIW my time was over 13 seconds giving a speed of 4kph vs required max of 5.4 kph or 7.7 kph for the medium bike. That test along with several others are all but impossible on a small wheeled bike, one is the Cattle grid.  Small ramps unevenly spaced out over 8 meters. To be crossed standing on the bike in over 10 seconds 

 

Pass the full Japanese unlimited M/C test (pass rate is about 5%) and I will have respect for your abilities.

Edited by sometimewoodworker
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A scooter is much difficult to ride and master than any bike with larger wheels. So a Honda click is not a good choice.

FWIW I have been riding bikes for the last 53 years with several hundreds of thousands of miles and in quite a reasonably large number of countries travelled..

You practice with what you going to ride! If he never ridden a motorcycle before, a honda click is as good as anything else. Unecessary coment to a newbie

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is incorrect. Did you pay attention to the point that I specified “any bike with larger wheels”

So you have probably at least 45 years less experience than I have and a few hundred thousand miles less.

Doing something for a long time is not experience....  maybe you have 1 year experience and repeated it 45 times... :whistling:

 

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

the point of using a bike with larger wheels is that the gyroscopic effect makes them more stable so given 2 small bikes of equal weight the one with the larger wheels is more stable once it is moving than the small wheeled one

Agreed.. but only once reasonable speeds are reached...  

The gyroscopic forces with larger wheels are also something which needs to be overcome when manoeuvring the bike.

Thus, smaller bikes are easier to manoeuvre at lower speeds - would have thought you’d know that with 45 years experience.

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The weight of the bike is not a significant factor with an experienced rider, it was inexperience not weight that caused the fall

Precisely - Larger bikes require greater experience than scooters because they are more difficult to handle - the Op has no experience. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

See above, the controllability is not primarily a factor of speed though at higher speeds the gyroscopic effect is greater and certainly at 170kmh it’s definitely preferable to have the stability of large wheels.

Erm....  170kmh, really ??? 

.... while factually correct, who’s riding a scooter / motorcycle at 170kmh through Bangkok or other cities / towns in Thailand ?? - the point you are trying to make is rather daft when considering the Op is new to motorcycling. 

 

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

even at low speeds large wheels are a significant advantage. You should try the Japanese unlimited motorcycle test that involves a Balance beam.  15 metres long; 30cm wide. To be crossed over (feet up) in 7 seconds for medium bikes and 10 seconds for big bikes. FWIW my time was over 13 seconds giving a speed of 4kph vs required max of 5.4 kph or 7.7 kph for the medium bike. That test along with several others are all but impossible on a small wheeled bike, one is the Cattle grid.  Small ramps unevenly spaced out over 8 meters. To be crossed standing on the bike in over 10 seconds 

Well done...  but somewhat irrelevant when you can’t fit a larger motorcycle between the cars, trucks, lorries etc in gridlocked traffic. 

 

 

 

Edited by richard_smith237
Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

You practice with what you going to ride! If he never ridden a motorcycle before, a honda click is as good as anything else. Unecessary coment to a newbie

A Honda CB50 or CB90 is easier to learn on than the Click “Unecessary coment to a newbie” not at all a very valid comment from an experienced rider.

 

Honda click 100kg, Honda CB50 74 kg

Edited by sometimewoodworker
Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is incorrect. Did you pay attention to the point that I specified “any bike with larger wheels”

So you have probably at least 45 years less experience than I have and a few hundred thousand miles less.

 

the point of using a bike with larger wheels is that the gyroscopic effect makes them more stable so given 2 small bikes of equal weight the one with the larger wheels is more stable once it is moving than the small wheeled one

The weight of the bike is not a significant factor with an experienced rider, it was inexperience not weight that caused the fall

See above, the controllability is not primarily a factor of speed though at higher speeds the gyroscopic effect is greater and certainly at 170kmh it’s definitely preferable to have the stability of large wheels.

 

even at low speeds large wheels are a significant advantage. You should try the Japanese unlimited motorcycle test that involves a Balance beam.  15 metres long; 30cm wide. To be crossed over (feet up) in 7 seconds for medium bikes and 10 seconds for big bikes. FWIW my time was over 13 seconds giving a speed of 4kph vs required max of 5.4 kph or 7.7 kph for the medium bike. That test along with several others are all but impossible on a small wheeled bike, one is the Cattle grid.  Small ramps unevenly spaced out over 8 meters. To be crossed standing on the bike in over 10 seconds 

 

Pass the full Japanese unlimited M/C test (pass rate is about 5%) and I will have respect for your abilities.

I am quite sure you have considerable more experience and competence on two wheels than I do.

 

Having said that, the Australian motorbike DL is no picnic. I topped the class in the written test, there were about four or five much younger guys who were very disgruntled when they flunked. Another two failed the riding tests, I passed.

My scooter is a step-through Yamaha TTX auto which mostly gets driven at 30-40 km/hr.

If I want to drive the distances you do, I get into four wheels. I have been driving those for 60 years without a serious accident.

 

I enjoy the scooter, driving within my limitations. May we both continue to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A Honda CB50 or CB90 is easier to learn on than the Click “Unecessary coment to a newbie” not at all a very valid comment from an experienced rider.

 

Honda click 100kg, Honda CB50 74 kg

I would have thought an automatic bike is less difficult to learn on than a manual. Less things to think about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A Honda CB50 or CB90 is easier to learn on than the Click “Unecessary coment to a newbie” not at all a very valid comment from an experienced rider.

 

God do they still make those.

I remember my elder brother getting a CB100-N to get to the mine. That was over 40 years ago....

 

BTW - I recently got an IDP from London - it was stamped with motorbike license yet I don't have one in the UK.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Having said that, the Australian motorbike DL is no picnic. I topped the class in the written test, there were about four or five much younger guys who were very disgruntled when they flunked. Another two failed the riding tests, I passed.

I have also passed every test I’ve taken first time.

FWIW I’m convinced (and many friends agree) that the Japanese big bike test is specifically designed to stop you from passing it. 
you must use the test center bikes, before you even get to ride, taking them off the centre stand is very difficult lifting a fallen 400cc fully laden bike is no picnic, doing the slalom is second gear throttle control only, the cattle grid is no brakes, clutch and throttle control only. The bikes have indicator lights that show the examiner clutch, throttle and brake use. While taking my test there were candidates who were on their 19th test, one girl failed 5 times to get the bike off the center stand so had to leave for the day

 

 

 

this gives a good part of the test

Link to post
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A Honda CB50 or CB90 is easier to learn on than the Click “Unecessary coment to a newbie” not at all a very valid comment from an experienced rider.

 

Honda click 100kg, Honda CB50 74 kg

I agree to disagree, most start with a click, pcx or simular in thailand today, and most have no problem. 
 

Remember 45 years of experience doesnt mean anything, and that coming from one who have 42 😄

 

Just cut the <deleted> and do not put deleted thoughts in his head. He is going to do the training with the bike he is going to drive after he got the license. End of comments from me. It is up to him to evaluate what is best for him, and what he have available.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

IDPs with M class can be found on Kaow San and DLs from many countries. Rent a small bike. Ride around and take the test just in case you have an accident. I rode "girls bikes" in Th for 20 plus years.  I bought a Harley at 65, did the M class and rode almost 10k miles across America in 4 months. Get a license and ride and enjoy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pmbkk said:

BTW - I recently got an IDP from London - it was stamped with motorbike license yet I don't have one in the UK.

The IDP only backs up the license so you still don’t have a valid M/C license 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A Honda CB50 or CB90 is easier to learn on than the Click “Unecessary coment to a newbie” not at all a very valid comment from an experienced rider.

 

Honda click 100kg, Honda CB50 74 kg

Where in Thailand can you buy a CB50 or CB90 ????

 

Does it have ABS ???

 

No motorcycle with gears and a clutch and without ABS is ideal for a newbie... 

 

 

I understand your point about gyroscopic stability provided by larger wheels, but that really doesn’t matter much when riding around at city speeds.

 

Your advice is more valid for someone who wants to learn to ride a motorcycle and progress through stages to larger motorcycles and ride and explore throughout the country on a larger machine. 

 

 

For someone who’s only goal is to have a motorcycle to ride around town there is no need for anything more than the standard ‘twist & Go’ scooter type motorcycle such as a Honda Click, Yamaha  Aerox etc.... 

 

 

 

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have also passed every test I’ve taken first time.

FWIW I’m convinced (and many friends agree) that the Japanese big bike test is specifically designed to stop you from passing it. 
you must use the test center bikes, before you even get to ride, taking them off the centre stand is very difficult lifting a fallen 400cc fully laden bike is no picnic, doing the slalom is second gear throttle control only, the cattle grid is no brakes, clutch and throttle control only. The bikes have indicator lights that show the examiner clutch, throttle and brake use. While taking my test there were candidates who were on their 19th test, one girl failed 5 times to get the bike off the center stand so had to leave for the day

 

this gives a good part of the test

Great... Well done...  A big round of applause for you, you’ve passed a difficult motorcycle test. 

 

 

At this stage, I’m not sure if your objective is to offer sensible advice to someone who simply wants to legally ride a scooter around town, or to highlight what a great motorcyclist you are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have also passed every test I’ve taken first time.

FWIW I’m convinced (and many friends agree) that the Japanese big bike test is specifically designed to stop you from passing it. 
you must use the test center bikes, before you even get to ride, taking them off the centre stand is very difficult lifting a fallen 400cc fully laden bike is no picnic, doing the slalom is second gear throttle control only, the cattle grid is no brakes, clutch and throttle control only. The bikes have indicator lights that show the examiner clutch, throttle and brake use. While taking my test there were candidates who were on their 19th test, one girl failed 5 times to get the bike off the center stand so had to leave for the day

 

 

 

this gives a good part of the test

An interesting test procedure on a big patch. I did notice a parked small step-through automatic at about 7 minutes on the video.

The test field in Oz would have been about quarter of an acre, in an industrial area. It focused heavily on balance, e.g. slow riding between two markers in more than 20 seconds, faster was a fail. The other was a twisting lane of about 100 metres, lines about a metre apart. Go outside the lines, or put a foot down for balance, again fail. No balance beams or bumps to contend with.

Unlike Japan, there was a range of bikes one could choose from, or I could bring my own bike. Fortunately, they had a similar smaller scooter in their stock.

Edited by Lacessit
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

A scooter is much difficult to ride and master than any bike with larger wheels.

 

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Very strange comment.

I'll say it is strange !

Bet he never rode a Knuck with no front brake, foot clutch !

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Erm...  Theoretically yes... Sometimes in practice, no... 

 

I obtained a Thai Motorcycle Licence with my UK Driving Licence. 

 

Enforcement A_79(3) is for ’trikes’....  But the picture looks like a motorcycle.

 

I guess the DLT in Thailand do not know this and thus were happy to issue a Motorcycle Licence based on this endorsement. 

 

As always, experiences my vary, of course.

 

 

 

Screenshot 2022-12-03 at 07.53.28.png

Yes the 'A' on my UK DL got me my motorcycle Thai DL. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I understand your point about gyroscopic stability provided by larger wheels, but that really doesn’t matter much when riding around at city speeds.

That shows that you really don’t understand the difference dynamics of riding, gyroscopic stability helps very considerably at low speeds probably from about 5kph and up, so city speeds? Absolutely.

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:
5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I understand your point about gyroscopic stability provided by larger wheels, but that really doesn’t matter much when riding around at city speeds.

That shows that you really don’t understand the difference dynamics of riding, gyroscopic stability helps very considerably at low speeds probably from about 5kph and up, so city speeds? Absolutely.

What all of our discussion ultimately highlights is that you’ve completed missed the point of what is ideal for a new-untrained rider on Thailand’s roads. 

 

You have locked yourself into an opinion about gyroscopic forces of large wheeled motorcycles compared to regular scooters and use this as the only facet to imply larger wheeled motorcycles are better than scooters for a new rider in Thailands.

 

For a new rider any advantage of stability a ‘larger wheeled’ motorcycle brings is cancelled out by the other factors such as gears, clutch, footbrake etc and yes, weight, because lightweight large wheeled motorcycles are not available in Thailand...  the Honda CB125R is perhaps an example of one of the lighter ‘large wheeled’ motorcycles available - and thats certainly not easier or simpler to ride than a Honda Click.

 

Additionally, the difference in gyroscopic stability between 14” and 17” rims is not significant enough at city speeds to make much difference.... 

 

You have ignored the points such as gears, clutch control, foot braking and the ease of manoeuvrability around vehicles in gridlocked traffic and approaching / filtering through the traffic when approaching traffic lights and junctions. 

 

As such, your point is utterly irrelevant to the point of being preposterous.

 

There is no way at all that any ‘real motorcycle’ is easier to ride than a scooter for a new rider.

You are on the wrong side of this one, your advice is flawed. 

 

Your advice is valid only IF a motorcyclist wants to ride at reasonable speeds outside of the city and towns, between towns, on inter-province roads etc.. in which case a larger motorcycle i.e. 300cc and up is more ideal than a scooter.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

What all of our discussion ultimately highlights is that you’ve completed missed the point of what is ideal for a new-untrained rider on Thailand’s roads. 

 

You have locked yourself into an opinion about gyroscopic forces of large wheeled motorcycles compared to regular scooters and use this as the only facet to imply larger wheeled motorcycles are better than scooters for a new rider in Thailands.

 

For a new rider any advantage of stability a ‘larger wheeled’ motorcycle brings is cancelled out by the other factors such as gears, clutch, footbrake etc and yes, weight, because lightweight large wheeled motorcycles are not available in Thailand...  the Honda CB125R is perhaps an example of one of the lighter ‘large wheeled’ motorcycles available - and thats certainly not easier or simpler to ride than a Honda Click.

 

Additionally, the difference in gyroscopic stability between 14” and 17” rims is not significant enough at city speeds to make much difference.... 

 

You have ignored the points such as gears, clutch control, foot braking and the ease of manoeuvrability around vehicles in gridlocked traffic and approaching / filtering through the traffic when approaching traffic lights and junctions. 

 

As such, your point is utterly irrelevant to the point of being preposterous.

 

There is no way at all that any ‘real motorcycle’ is easier to ride than a scooter for a new rider.

You are on the wrong side of this one, your advice is flawed. 

 

Your advice is valid only IF a motorcyclist wants to ride at reasonable speeds outside of the city and towns, between towns, on inter-province roads etc.. in which case a larger motorcycle i.e. 300cc and up is more ideal than a scooter.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On bumpy dirt roads! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...