Could this corruption scandal signal the end of the EU ?

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4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Did you check what word it was? Hardly hate speech, says more about the software then it does about Spiked. ???? 

It's a common derogatory word characterizing opponents of Brexit. It shows the level the the author is operating at.

[candide]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

She was certainly acting on behalf of other members of the European Parliament who were also in on the corrupt scheme. Does every single member have to be involved before you consider it a problem of corruption within the EU? ????

 

It would seem other members of the EP realize how significant it is, even if you try to brush it under the carpet.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/european-parliament-lawmaker-denies-taking-bribes-qatar-lawyer-2022-12-13/

 

How was she acting on behalf of the other MEPs? Who are these numerous corrupt  MEPs? She's corrupt and a few others may be. Lock them up! However, It's no evidence the whole EU is corrupt.  There are corrupt politicians everywhere, included in UK. 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I don't rejoice in their misfortune.

 

However, the EU's attempts to break up the UK following the Brexit vote (and generally make things as difficult as possible for us) certainly left a sour taste in the mouth so let's just say my sympathy for them is limited at this point in time, especially as it was their own corruption that led to the current situation. 

We have polar opposite opinion about most things but, up to now, I haven't thought of you as a conspiracy theorist. However, the idea that the EU has tried to break up the UK post-referendum could have come straight out of the QAnon playbook. It is complete and utter nonsense. The EU has a - seemingly - permanent failed state (Russia) on its' doorstep and another (Ukraine) which has recently appeared through no fault of its' own. Why would it want yet another near neighbour - let alone, its' biggest trading partner - to collapse? 

 

A quick refresher seems to be in order. Firstly, the UK left the EU; the EU did not force - or want - the UK to leave. Once the divorce negotiation was set in motion, the Commission took its' instructions from the member states. It's main aim, unsurprisingly, was to get the best deal for the member states. It was always unlikely that the outcome envisaged by the EU and UK would be identical.

 

At the outset, the UK's governments' negotiation strategy seemed to rest on the false, arrogant assumption that the UK held the upper hand in the negotiations. When it became obvious that this wasn't the case, there was no back-up strategy. Instead of hoping for the best outcome but planning for the worse, the UK negotiators appeared to ignore any planning. The entity responsible for the current mess is the the UK government and they should be held accountable for it 

 

The current corruption scandal is a failure on the EU's part. However, they have accepted this fact and, presumably, are working to ensure that such an event will not occur in the future.

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The thing is, this is actually a well written and informative article about potential corruption problems in the European Parliament. But this being the Telegraph, instead of presenting it that way, it came up with a headline that has no evidentiary backing the  in the text of the article itself. Instead  it offers just a soupçon of wan speculation:

"There is little sign yet that the scandal is increasing the appetite of other member states to follow Britain and break free, but the investigation by an anti-corruption unit of the Belgian police is far from over and it is impossible to know where it might end."

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:22 PM, NoshowJones said:

I do not believe there is job or profession in the world without corruption, you will get it from farmers, dustbinmen right up to bankers and the very top of governments. To stop doing anything because of corruption will never work, it will always be there.

 I do not know of a single instance of corruption from the thousands of nurses and hospital staff I worked with.

I don't speak for nurse/ hospital managers or doctors though.

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 I do not know of a single instance of corruption from the thousands of nurses and hospital staff I worked with.

I don't speak for nurse/ hospital managers or doctors though.

I agree with what you are saying regarding the nurses and hospital staff, they would have to be very caring dedicated people to do such jobs.

When it comes to corruption, going by what I read particularly here on TV/AN, I believe it is rife among hospital managers and doctors, especially through the pandemic which has resulted in a lot of these people becoming very rich along with the unelected government.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

I agree with what you are saying regarding the nurses and hospital staff, they would have to be very caring dedicated people to do such jobs.

When it comes to corruption, going by what I read particularly here on TV/AN, I believe it is rife among hospital managers and doctors, especially through the pandemic which has resulted in a lot of these people becoming very rich along with the unelected government.

Thank you. I knew a few Drs that were corrupt and grew very rich off the NHS but they were consultants. The average Dr is not corrupt IMO.

I have zero respect for any of the hospital managers I served under- need I say more?

[JonnyF]

18 hours ago, RayC said:

We have polar opposite opinion about most things but, up to now, I haven't thought of you as a conspiracy theorist. However, the idea that the EU has tried to break up the UK post-referendum could have come straight out of the QAnon playbook. It is complete and utter nonsense.

Actually they consistenty tried to isolate Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK under the guise of protecting the Northern Ireland protocol and avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland. Trying to drive a wedge between the two at every opportunity. There's even a secretly recording of Barnier talking about it. Hardly QAnon ????...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

 

 

 

So yeah, don't expect too much sympathy from me when the EU's power supplies dry up due to one of it's own corrupt Vice Presidents. They made their bed, let them lie in it. 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Actually they consistenty tried to isolate Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK under the guise of protecting the Northern Ireland protocol and avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland. Trying to drive a wedge between the two at every opportunity. There's even a secretly recording of Barnier talking about it. Hardly QAnon ????...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

 

 

 

So yeah, don't expect too much sympathy from me when the EU's power supplies dry up due to one of it's own corrupt Vice Presidents. They made their bed, let them lie in it. 

 

"Strategic and tactical reason (to) use Ireland for the future negotiations". That's a lot different from an EU attempt to break up the UK. Note that Barnier also said 'Ireland', not 'Northern Ireland'. 

 

For someone who has stated that he doesn't rejoice in the EU's misfortune, you do a very good impersonation. 

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1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Actually they consistenty tried to isolate Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK under the guise of protecting the Northern Ireland protocol and avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland. Trying to drive a wedge between the two at every opportunity. There's even a secretly recording of Barnier talking about it. Hardly QAnon ????...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1508742/michel-barnier-news-unearthed-clip-plans-isolate-ireland-northern-ireland-protocol-spt

 

 

 

So yeah, don't expect too much sympathy from me when the EU's power supplies dry up due to one of it's own corrupt Vice Presidents. They made their bed, let them lie in it. 

 

And the British negotiators didn't use what little leverage they had to gain advantage over their EU counterparts? Like fishing rights? What you have a problem with is a thing called negotating.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And the British negotiators didn't use what little leverage they had to gain advantage over their EU counterparts? Like fishing rights? What you have a problem with is a thing called negotating.

The British 'negotiators' were hopeless and didn't use anything, especially fishing wrongs.

[JonnyF]

35 minutes ago, RayC said:

"Strategic and tactical reason (to) use Ireland for the future negotiations". That's a lot different from an EU attempt to break up the UK. Note that Barnier also said 'Ireland', not 'Northern Ireland'. 

 

For someone who has stated that he doesn't rejoice in the EU's misfortune, you do a very good impersonation. 

Maybe you missed "Isolating Ireland, and not closing this point"? 

 

You think he was referring to The Republic? You know, the part of Ireland that is part of the EU? ????

 

There's a difference between rejoicing in something, and not feeling sympathy for an organization that gets what was coming to it. Well, the corruption is there for all to see now. Before the story broke you'd have been dismising it a QAnon type conspiracy theory. Believe it now?

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eva-kailis-partner-confesses-role-european-parliament-corruption-case-sources-2022-12-15/

 

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And the British negotiators didn't use what little leverage they had to gain advantage over their EU counterparts? Like fishing rights? What you have a problem with is a thing called negotating.

The agreement said acting in good faith. Something the EU never intended to do. Anyway, this isn't a Brexit thread. Let's get back on topic.

 

Confessions of the EU corruption coming out now.

 

https://today.rtl.lu/news/world/a/2005544.html

 

What a mess. The nature of EU Parliamentarians laid bare for the world to see. All moral high ground lost. Deary Deary me. 

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6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The agreement said acting in good faith. Something the EU never intended to do. Anyway, this isn't a Brexit thread. Let's get back on topic.

 

Confessions of the EU corruption coming out now.

 

https://today.rtl.lu/news/world/a/2005544.html

 

What a mess. The nature of EU Parliamentarians laid bare for the world to see. All moral high ground lost. Deary Deary me. 

Did you actually read the article? What is new in there that adds to your case? 

I'm actually quite surprised at how tepid it is, since as you may not be aware, RT, the source of this article, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Russian govt. The same government that aided the Brexit movement in the runup to the referendum.

 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Did you actually read the article? What is new in there that adds to your case? 

I'm actually quite surprised at how tepid it is, since as you may not be aware, RT, the source of this article, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Russian govt. The same government that aided the Brexit movement in the runup to the referendum.

 

The new part is that they are starting to confess.

 

Terribly embarrassing for the EU. The start of the end? Quite possibly.

[JonnyF]

Looks like she got her own father to hide the money. Wow.

 

https://www.brusselstimes.com/340013/qatar-corruption-scandal-kaili-and-panzeri-both-make-partial-confessions

 

 

One of the Vice Presidents of the EU no less. Astounding levels of corruption.

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post and response to it removed.

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20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The new part is that they are starting to confess.

 

Terribly embarrassing for the EU. The start of the end? Quite possibly.

As even the reporter for The Telegraph, a profoundly pro-Brexit publication pointed out in the text, there's no evidence at all to suggest that this is the case. Purely speculative and very unlikely. Most Europeans see the EU as being very advantageous to them economically. They're going to give that up because of some corrupt MEPs? And, of course, if they should consider leaving the EU, they have only to contemplate the desperately unhappy example of the UK to put a stop to that line of thinking. The EU owes a big vote of thanks to the UK for exemplifying the consequences of leaving the EU. An object lesson if ever there was one.

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24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Looks like she got her own father to hide the money. Wow.

 

https://www.brusselstimes.com/340013/qatar-corruption-scandal-kaili-and-panzeri-both-make-partial-confessions

 

 

One of the Vice Presidents of the EU no less. Astounding levels of corruption.

Given that we know that it was already reported that her father had large amounts of unexplained cash in his possession, this qualifies as a significant development. Let's see how many more articles you can milk in the cause of nothing new news.

And what makes this news item proof of astounding levels of corruption? Are there any new people cited as being parties to this criminal activity?

And as has been pointed out before, she is one of 14 Vice Presidents of the EU. And actually most have very little authority. Only the executive vice-Presidents do. While the title sounds impressive, most are merely glorified Commissioners. Including Kaili.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice-President_of_the_European_Commission#:~:text=A Vice-President of the,which multiple European Commissioners participate.

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And as has been pointed out before, she is one of 14 Vice Presidents of the EU. And actually most have very little authority. Only the executive vice-Presidents do. While the title sounds impressive, most are merely glorified Commissioners. Including Kaili.

Well that's OK then.

 

Nothing to see here, move along swiftly... ???? 

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1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Well that's OK then.

 

Nothing to see here, move along swiftly... ???? 

There's a vast range of space between a few crimes and "astounding levels of corruption'. What don't you get about that obvious point?

[JonnyF]

21 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As even the reporter for The Telegraph, a profoundly pro-Brexit publication pointed out in the text, there's no evidence at all to suggest that this is the case. Purely speculative and very unlikely. Most Europeans see the EU as being very advantageous to them economically. They're going to give that up because of some corrupt MEPs? And, of course, if they should consider leaving the EU, they have only to contemplate the desperately unhappy example of the UK to put a stop to that line of thinking. The EU owes a big vote of thanks to the UK for exemplifying the consequences of leaving the EU. An object lesson if ever there was one.

UK economy grew 0.5% in October. 

 

The EU isn't doing too well, even before this disgraceful corruption scandal hit.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/11/europes-record-inflation-will-peak-at-year-end-but-remain-high-in-2023-says-brussels

 

This will be incredibly damaging for the EU. Even Charles Michel is honest enough to admit it. 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/charles-michel-corruption-scandal-european-union-qatargate/

 

 

It's been a torrid time for the EU since 2016. I wonder if history will prove that year to be the beginning of the end?

 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There's a vast range of space between a few crimes and "astounding levels of corruption'. What don't you get about that obvious point?

A few crimes? ???? As I showed in the post below yours, Charles Michel disagrees with your trivializing of the criminal enterprise being run by EU Parliamentarians.

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/charles-michel-corruption-scandal-european-union-qatargate/

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

UK economy grew 0.5% in October. 

 

The EU isn't doing too well, even before this disgraceful corruption scandal hit.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/11/europes-record-inflation-will-peak-at-year-end-but-remain-high-in-2023-says-brussels

 

This will be incredibly damaging for the EU. Even Charles Michel is honest enough to admit it. 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/charles-michel-corruption-scandal-european-union-qatargate/

 

 

It's been a torrid time for the EU since 2016. I wonder if history will prove that year to be the beginning of the end?

 

It shrank in the 3 months preceding october, though, didn't it. And no one is predicting growth for the future. Quite the contrary.

And it's funny. You choose economic growth as the factor to show the UK is doing OK and Inflation to show that the EU isn't. Why the inconsistency? You hiding something?

You reallyl want to claim that the UK is doing no worse than the EU? And what's especially significant is that in economically comparable countries, the middle and working classes fare far better in those nations than they do in the UK. The only advanced economy that still hasn't recovered from the 2010 recession.

And the EU is facing the problem of corruption head on. It could be a big scandal. The EU should now be very grateful that the UK left. As it shows what the consequences of leaving are.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Maybe you missed "Isolating Ireland, and not closing this point"? 

Maybe you missed the part where Barnier mentioned trade? That was the context in which he was speaking.

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

You think he was referring to The Republic? You know, the part of Ireland that is part of the EU? ????

I think that he was referring to the logistics of how trade was going to work on the island of Ireland post-Brexit. You know, how the bit in the EU (RoI) was going to trade with the bit that is in the UK (NI)????

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

There's a difference between rejoicing in something, and not feeling sympathy for an organization that gets what was coming to it.

Never let it be said that rational thought got in the way of emotion.

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Well, the corruption is there for all to see now. Before the story broke you'd have been dismising it a QAnon type conspiracy theory. Believe it now?

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eva-kailis-partner-confesses-role-european-parliament-corruption-case-sources-2022-12-15/

 

Unlike you, I don't simply dismiss reports because they don't fit my narrative. 

 

Unfortunately, there is corruption within the EU institutions (although it is not unique in that).  Hopefully, if these allegations are true, those responsible will be dealt with severely and lessons will be learnt in order to minimise the chances of it happening again.

[candide]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The new part is that they are starting to confess.

 

Terribly embarrassing for the EU. The start of the end? Quite possibly.

Not really news. The article you linked dates from 15 December.

[RayC]

54 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

UK economy grew 0.5% in October. 

 

The EU isn't doing too well, even before this disgraceful corruption scandal hit.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/11/europes-record-inflation-will-peak-at-year-end-but-remain-high-in-2023-says-brussels

 

This will be incredibly damaging for the EU. Even Charles Michel is honest enough to admit it. 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/charles-michel-corruption-scandal-european-union-qatargate/

 

 

It's been a torrid time for the EU since 2016. I wonder if history will prove that year to be the beginning of the end?

 

 

Still clinging to "they need us more than we need them" narrative?

 

It wasn't true in 2016 and it's not true in 2022 as the last six years have shown.

 

Torrid time for the EU? Oh yes, everything's been peachy for the UK since 2016.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

A few crimes? ???? As I showed in the post below yours, Charles Michel disagrees with your trivializing of the criminal enterprise being run by EU Parliamentarians.

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/charles-michel-corruption-scandal-european-union-qatargate/

Good from the President of the Council to express his sense of ethics. So did the President of the EP and others. It seems the "corrupt" EU is not minimising these crimes and is not trying to cover them up. (Unlike another politician we know, but that would be a bit off-topic).

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Not really news. The article you linked dates from 15 December.

Yes, we all know that something less than a week old isn't news any more. ????

 

Let's just brush it under the carpet. It's all terribly embarrassing for the Europhiles isn't it.

 

How about yesterday? Is that too old as well? I don't believe this has been reported yet, It seems more and more people are getting caught up in this huge scandal. Let's see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/50390b9e-3ac5-4898-a5a2-f2f9062bd174

 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Good from the President of the Council to express his sense of ethics. So did the President of the EP and others. It seems the "corrupt" EU is not minimising these crimes

Unlike certain members of this forum, they are indeed acknowledging the scale, and the implications of this scandal. 

 

It does remind me a bit of Prayut's regular acknowledgements of corruption and plans to stamp it out though... It would seem Thailand and The EU have a lot more in common in terms of the way they do business than I first thought. No wonder they plan to move closer.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/40023121