Sole Survivor of Minivan Fire that Burned 11 People Alive in Nakhon Ratchasima Tells His Story

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I would think that is because where you come from, you were taught that if you broke the rules whilst driving and you got caught, you pay heavily for it, suffice to say, fear does have it's advantages.

 

I come from Sydney, the cops there are relentless, and unforgiving, not happy with the fine, take it to court, you have 21 days to do so, go to court, it will cost you a days wages which is about what the fine could be at the lowest end, no guarantee you'll get in to court on that day, so you might have to go another day, loss of time and wages from work makes it not worth fighting, because unless you can prove to the judge without a doubt that you didn't break the rules, you won't only be up for the fine, you will also be up for the court costs which would be about the same as the fine.

 

Been fined a couple of times, amber light, cop says it was red, so I paid it, not worth the extra cost and loss of income, here, you go through a red light, slip the cop 200 baht and he will waive you on, try that in Sydney and you will end up in the slammer.

 

In 2022 there were 1,160 road deaths in Australia with a population of just under 26 million people vs 14,737 road deaths in Thailand with a population of just under 72 million people.

 

 Like I said, I blame it on the police force for not doing their job, and of course as you mentioned, the government also has to be blamed for it's failure to be able to control it's lazy police force.

I don’t disagree with any of that (i come from UK - a drink drive conviction is not only costly in terms of fines and loss of licence (you’ll go to jail if you drive disqualified!) but try getting insurance thereafter ! ) . So broadly I think we agree with each other! ???? 

[San Fran Dan]

3 hours ago, superal said:

Most commercial vehicles in the UK use diesel which will not ignite , say from a spark , unlike petrol which will ignite easily .  I am guessing that the tragic Thai minivan had  petrol fuel . 

It had LG it’s in the story you didn’t read lol

[silver sea]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

 “I was asleep and then woke up because I heard someone scream.”

 

“The van was already upside down, and I did not see what happened.”

 

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

The van turned upside down and that didn't wake him?

Errr… you forget that he is a 20 year old student! That’s what they do.
 

But having woken up, his reaction was immediate and strong: he began to kick the windows and clawed his way out just before the van exploded 3 or 4 times. The only survivor. Amazing

Edited January 24, 2023 by silver sea

[Pedrogaz]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

It seems to be the van needs to be looked at.

Buses and public transport account for about 1% of road deaths.

 

Of curse when they happen they are multiple and grab the attention of the media. However th toyota Commuter vans are made in Thailand and account for over 90% of te market - this means they are by far the most common vehicles in accidents.

This van or similar models are also available in Japan and Philippines. They aren't sold in Europe as they don't comply to EU regs.

This doesn't mean the van itself is inherently unsafe, 

However not for the first time, I believe the occupants were killed in the subsequent fire - this poses the question of what were the "3 explosions" described by the sole survivor. Te LNP system I would imagine is fitted post production and again one should surely confirm that this was fitted according to rigorous safety standards,

Human error my have been the initial factor in the accident but it seems quite possible that what could have been just injuries was turned fatal by the behaviour of the vehicle and the road environment in the crash.

 

For comparison, a double decker overturned in the UK last week with 71 people on board - no explosion, no fire and no deaths.

Where did you get the information that public transport deaths are only 1% of all deaths on Thai roads? Are these the infamous 'at the scene' deaths or the real death rate? What is the market share of Toyota Communter vans in Thailand (I'm sure more people are killed on Honda motorcycles than other brands of motorbike, but this reflects the dominance of Honda in the market and not any poor safety on behalf of Honda motorbikes themselves). I agree it is time to phase out these vehicles from hell, to put GPS in the cab to notify authorities of speeding and to make after-market modifications like LPG/NPG conversions subject to eye-watering fines.

[yogavnture]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

It seems to be the van needs to be looked at.

Buses and public transport account for about 1% of road deaths.

 

Of curse when they happen they are multiple and grab the attention of the media. However th toyota Commuter vans are made in Thailand and account for over 90% of te market - this means they are by far the most common vehicles in accidents.

This van or similar models are also available in Japan and Philippines. They aren't sold in Europe as they don't comply to EU regs.

This doesn't mean the van itself is inherently unsafe, 

However not for the first time, I believe the occupants were killed in the subsequent fire - this poses the question of what were the "3 explosions" described by the sole survivor. Te LNP system I would imagine is fitted post production and again one should surely confirm that this was fitted according to rigorous safety standards,

Human error my have been the initial factor in the accident but it seems quite possible that what could have been just injuries was turned fatal by the behaviour of the vehicle and the road environment in the crash.

 

For comparison, a double decker overturned in the UK last week with 71 people on board - no explosion, no fire and no deaths.

the van exploded 4 times hard to look at it now.   only ashes to examine

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

I don’t disagree with any of that (i come from UK - a drink drive conviction is not only costly in terms of fines and loss of licence (you’ll go to jail if you drive disqualified!) but try getting insurance thereafter ! ) . So broadly I think we agree with each other! ???? 

Agree, in Sydney, you are scared to drive because the cops and cameras are everywhere, so your best to use an app with one of those speed alarms to keep you from getting fined, constantly going off because the speed limit is 60km an hour in most built up areas and the fine for going over 10km if convicted by a court is 50,000 baht.

 

Outside of a court, speeding over 10km but no greater than 20km is 6,600 baht, over 20 is 11,400 baht, both providing a 4 demerit penalty of the 12 demerit point system and it takes 3 years to get back any points lost, that said, one public holidays it's double demerit point losses, so you could lose your license in one day.

 

That system works in keeping the death count down, because if the cops don't get you, the cameras, whether fixed speed camera's, radar's, unmarked cars with speed cameras, red light cameras, school zones 40km or other, something will get you and your paying attention to be under the speed limit all the time. 

 

[Dazkkk]

The wife regularly used to take the Minivan from Hua Hin too BKK and come home with some tales of terrible  speeds the drivers drove at.

Decided that it would be better to buy her a new 7 seater of her own as despite her driving, she was safer in her car than in a minivan with some drivers spaced out on cheap whisky and YaBa

Edited January 24, 2023 by Dazkkk

[Ginner]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I'm not a gambling man, but I would go ALL in that it was human error, why, because without a strong police presence, speed cameras, heavy fines, loss of license and jail time penalties for excessive speeding, you will continue to see what transpired, i.e. countless deaths on Thai roads.

 

If anyone is to blame, it is the entire police force, I NEVER see them on the roads, only during school times to assist the kids crossing the roads at pedestrian/zebra crossings where drivers/riders always fail to stop, not only that, I see many people breaking road rules in front of them and they do nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

RIP to those who perished in this awful tragic accident, and if you wonder why I do the hour round trip to drop off our kids to school and then again for an hour to pick them up as opposed to putting them in a death trap which I see many of speeding and overtaking with scores of kids in them oblivious to what could happen, it's because I value our kids lives. 

I have been on vans where drivers openly talk to other van drivers about the bet they have had on which van driver can get the fastest time of the day traveling to Pattaya.

[kwilco]

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I'm not a gambling man, but I would go ALL in that it was human error, why, because without a strong police presence, speed cameras, heavy fines, loss of license and jail time penalties for excessive speeding, you will continue to see what transpired, i.e. countless deaths on Thai roads.

 

If anyone is to blame, it is the entire police force, I NEVER see them on the roads, only during school times to assist the kids crossing the roads at pedestrian/zebra crossings where drivers/riders always fail to stop, not only that, I see many people breaking road rules in front of them and they do nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

RIP to those who perished in this awful tragic accident, and if you wonder why I do the hour round trip to drop off our kids to school and then again for an hour to pick them up as opposed to putting them in a death trap which I see many of speeding and overtaking with scores of kids in them oblivious to what could happen, it's because I value our kids lives. 

I don't think you understand what human error is...

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Where did you get the information that public transport deaths are only 1% of all deaths on Thai roads?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Death-by-road-user-categorize_fig4_325871293

 

 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Where did you get the information that public transport deaths are only 1% of all deaths on Thai roads? Are these the infamous 'at the scene' deaths or the real death rate? What is the market share of Toyota Communter vans in Thailand (I'm sure more people are killed on Honda motorcycles than other brands of motorbike, but this reflects the dominance of Honda in the market and not any poor safety on behalf of Honda motorbikes themselves). I agree it is time to phase out these vehicles from hell, to put GPS in the cab to notify authorities of speeding and to make after-market modifications like LPG/NPG conversions subject to eye-watering fines.

I think you need to familiarise yourself with Road safety stats in Thailand. Toyota have about 90% of the market share in minibuses - in acce=idents they are classified along with big buses - which are if anything more dangerous in an accident due to the way they are built.

Motorcyclists account for 73% of =deaths.

Buses etc 1%..

 

Honda motorcycles have the largest share of the market - and Yamaha trails in second place - however they are building very similar machines use similarly. The Toyota van has an almost monopoly on the minibus market being the only one manufactured in Thailand - it is also as said only sold in Japan and Philippines. I haven't looked into the local manufacturing spec - apart from finding out they are not for sale in EU - apparently for emission reasons.

 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, yogavnture said:

the van exploded 4 times hard to look at it now.   only ashes to examine

It is a sad characteristic of road safety in Thailand that crashes are not evaluated properly - the police simply aren't trained to do this and the statistics collected are unsatisfactory. Regardless of what does or doesn't remain of the van is is perfectly possible to accurately calculate the speed the van was travelling its trajectory and any failings in the installation of the fuel system. One can also look at the road itself and see what the nature of the side of the road was where the van crashed and how much it exacerbated the damage to the vehicle and further endangered the lives of the occupants.

[Kalasin Jo]

Absolutely terrifying. And so lucky. A few seconds and he too would have been burned alive.

[kwilco]

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I'm not a gambling man, but I would go ALL in that it was human error, why, because without a strong police presence, speed cameras, heavy fines, loss of license and jail time penalties for excessive speeding, you will continue to see what transpired, i.e. countless deaths on Thai roads.

 

If anyone is to blame, it is the entire police force, I NEVER see them on the roads, only during school times to assist the kids crossing the roads at pedestrian/zebra crossings where drivers/riders always fail to stop, not only that, I see many people breaking road rules in front of them and they do nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

RIP to those who perished in this awful tragic accident, and if you wonder why I do the hour round trip to drop off our kids to school and then again for an hour to pick them up as opposed to putting them in a death trap which I see many of speeding and overtaking with scores of kids in them oblivious to what could happen, it's because I value our kids lives. 

here's a defintion of what human error actually is..... and how ALL of us do it.....

What is human error

 

There is no way anyone can totally avoid human error, that is why health and safety designs systems to anticipate this.

 

Human error is something done that was not intended by any person. It’s often a very small aberration but the consequences can be serious if not anticipated by architects and designers road and vehicle engineers and designers.

Good design anticipates these “little” errors.

 

Human error is usually the major factor in the failure of  safety in any structure. So steps are normally taken to anticipate this.

 

Human errors work in different ways:

 

It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories.

 

First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the person was blinded by some glare, balcony had low contrast parameters.

 In other cases, the person made a perceptual misjudgement (a balustrade’s handrail or slippery surface or just, poorly defined glass panels

 

Second and far more common cause is that the critical information was missed because the person had been drinking and the design of the item in this case balcony did not accommodation this.

So if the person hadn’t been drinking there was a failure to notice because mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often a person says they  did not "see" something plainly visible from a different perspective

 

Finally, the person processes the information correctly but for one reason or another doesn’t choose the correct response because of slow reactions or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out  - e.g. fail to grab hold of the handrail.

 

Just saying “I’m always careful” doesn’t work because with human error, much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness

 

So the point of a proper road safety system is to protect against the consequences of  inevitable human error

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by kwilco

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

I don't think you understand what human error is...

Of course, speeding is never a human error, just a circumstance right ?

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

So the point of a proper road safety system is to protect against the consequences of  inevitable human error

I couldn't read all of your reply, too long this hour in the morning, but you can read my short reply in the post above which should sum it up, short and sweet.

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I couldn't read all of your reply, too long this hour in the morning, but you can read my short reply in the post above which should sum it up, short and sweet.

so there you have it = QED - people just don't understand raod safety and worse won't educate themselves.

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Of course, speeding is never a human error, just a circumstance right ?

As you said you haven't read the post so are unable to make a relevant comment.

[VinnieK]

On 1/24/2023 at 8:42 AM, whereyougo said:

The screaming will haunt this man for a lifetime

No it won't!

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

As you said you haven't read the post so are unable to make a relevant comment.

You know people like yourself could be deemed a "control freak" using that tone on an open forum ????

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

You know people like yourself could be deemed a "control freak" using that tone on an open forum ????

Now I referred to your own post - how do you see that as "control freak"?

If you haven't understood what human error actually is, then how can you coherently comment on it. 

You don't seem to understand the difference between "speeding" (your term) and human error.

Human error is the CAUSE of an accident - speeding isn't the cause it exacerbates the effects of human error.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by kwilco

[fusion58]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:43 AM, 4MyEgo said:

If anyone is to blame, it is the entire police force, I NEVER see them on the roads, only during school times to assist the kids crossing the roads at pedestrian/zebra crossings where drivers/riders always fail to stop, not only that, I see many people breaking road rules in front of them and they do nothing, absolutely nothing.

Yep.

 

Also, it doesn't help that we're dealing with a culture whose members are constitutionally incapable of admitting they have a problem and whose motivation to change is non-existent. For example, just try telling a Thai driver that texting and chatting on Line or WhatsApp while driving are dangerous driving behaviors, and you'll usually get a middle finger by way of response.

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

Now I referred to your own post - how do you see that as "control freak"?

If you haven't understood what human error actually is, then how can you coherently comment on it. 

You don't seem to understand the difference between "speeding" (your term) and human error.

Human error is the CAUSE of an accident - speeding isn't the cause it exacerbates the effects of human error.

 

I tend to look at it this way, if one doesn't speed, then one couldn't say it was human error.

 

If I stuck a bit of wire into an electrical socket should I blame that on human error or just outright being stupid.

 

To me, if one doesn't speed, one has less chances of killing ones self and others, that said, if you want to call it human error, because of speeding, well up to you, to me if one wasn't speeding, one would kill self and others, period.

 

As for the control freak part, your words: As you said you haven't read the post so are unable to make a relevant comment. 

 

According to widespread research, most traffic accidents occur because of some type of human error.
...
The three primary human factors that are most frequently cited in the study are:

• Speeding.
• Inattentiveness.
• Improper lookout.

Dec 28, 2564 BE

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, fusion58 said:

Yep.

 

Also, it doesn't help that we're dealing with a culture whose members are constitutionally incapable of admitting they have a problem and whose motivation to change is non-existent. For example, just try telling a Thai driver that texting and chatting on Line or WhatsApp while driving are dangerous driving behaviors, and you'll usually get a middle finger by way of response.

Agree, as for Thai drivers, no, no, no, if we go on holidays without our car (the preferred) however if the distance is greater than 12 hours, we will fly, and I will hire a car at the airport vs getting into a car/minivan with a Thai driver.

 

Been there done that, 140km in a minivan from Bangkok to Pattaya wasn't a pleasant experience for me and the wife prior to having kids, though we would be airborne a couple of times.

 

Even if I don't use the hire car after the airport apart from going to a shopping centre from the hotel, I would rather lose the money with the hire car sitting in the hotel car park than get into a car with a Thai driver, that said, I am sure there are some god drivers, but I am not in a hurry and I shouldn't have to go through such an ordeal to get from point A to point B because some ting tong thinks by getting me there faster is better.

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I tend to look at it this way, if one doesn't speed, then one couldn't say it was human error.

 

If I stuck a bit of wire into an electrical socket should I blame that on human error or just outright being stupid.

 

To me, if one doesn't speed, one has less chances of killing ones self and others, that said, if you want to call it human error, because of speeding, well up to you, to me if one wasn't speeding, one would kill self and others, period.

 

As for the control freak part, your words: As you said you haven't read the post so are unable to make a relevant comment. 

 

According to widespread research, most traffic accidents occur because of some type of human error.
...
The three primary human factors that are most frequently cited in the study are:

• Speeding.
• Inattentiveness.
• Improper lookout.

Dec 28, 2564 BE

"If I stuck a bit of wire into an electrical socket should I blame that on human error or just outright being stupid."

This just shows that you have no grasp of what human error is.

 

You still don't understand what human error is and what a "factor" is in a crash

Unfortunately "widespread research" is no real answer without a citation - and you have shown you don't understand by mixing in factors with human error. It isvery difficult to have a discussion with someone who so obstinately refuses to inform themselves of the facts.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, kwilco said:

It isvery difficult to have a discussion with someone who so obstinately refuses to inform themselves of the facts.

I'm surprised you still bother, sometimes it's best to let go of the bone that those who lock their jaws onto want to keep.

 

You can keep it.

[yogavnture]

someone high on weed and mixing it with booze and caffiene and cigarettes. toxic mix........god save the sober drivers from the stoned driver

[Lucky Bones]

On 1/24/2023 at 7:12 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

The van turned upside down and that didn't wake him?

This  is Thailand. Cars regularly drive on their roofs.????????