Are the new generation bivalent covid vaccines available to protect us from the new Omicron subvariants?

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, JNASHDDS said:

but it's clear that Thailand is not pursuing an up-to-date covid vaccination policy and is stuck with the 2020 - 21 model,

Probably because we all had the original vaccination, and we subsequently all caught COVID.

Fool me once, etc.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, JNASHDDS said:

Members of this Forum can certainly quibble and offer their own opinions about vaccine efficacy, etc.; but it's clear that Thailand is not pursuing an up-to-date covid vaccination policy and is stuck with the 2020 - 21 model, relying on their stock of monovalent vaccines instead of state-of-the-art bivalents- to the detriment of everyone who lives here.  Fyi from the U.S. FDA last week: "The agency, in briefing documents released in advance of a meeting this week with its vaccine advisers, said the goal is to determine in the spring which strain will pose the greatest threat the following winter. A vaccine targeting that strain would then be administered in the fall."

This is the kind of sensible Public Health approach that is needed to protect the population from mutating strains of covid-19. The question is, what can we do about it?

Anyone have any ideas?

I'd say those vaccines aren't available in Thailand for the same reason as they are uncommon in my country. My 94 year old mother is having problems trying to get one.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

People should remember, Thailand also was slow and behind the curve in administering the original mRNA vaccines against COVID... at a time when they were already being used for the publics in the U.S., UK and elsewhere.

 

Thailand originally put its vaccine eggs in the Chinese produced Sinovac and Sinopharm vaxes (marginal), as well as later the locally produced AstraZeneca vaccine....for well-known and obvious reasons...  And what's become of all those three vaccines these days? Left behind in the dust.

 

Right now, Thailand is repeating the ill-advised vaccine policy decisions that characterized their original go-round with this... But last time, they ended up getting bailed out in part by the original mRNA vaccines donated to Thailand by the U.S. and others.

 

This time, there's no indication I've seen anywhere thus far that 2nd gen mRNA vax donations are coming Thailand's way... And there's currently no public indication that Thailand on its own is planning to acquire the newer vaccines.

 

Thailand's leaders are great at spending government funds on things that end up benefiting them or those around them. But not so much when they're not directly benefiting and it's just the common Thai citizen who stands to benefit, as history here has shown.

 

[Joebuzzz]

3 hours ago, JNASHDDS said:

Members of this Forum can certainly quibble and offer their own opinions about vaccine efficacy, etc.; but it's clear that Thailand is not pursuing an up-to-date covid vaccination policy and is stuck with the 2020 - 21 model, relying on their stock of monovalent vaccines instead of state-of-the-art bivalents- to the detriment of everyone who lives here.  Fyi from the U.S. FDA last week: "The agency, in briefing documents released in advance of a meeting this week with its vaccine advisers, said the goal is to determine in the spring which strain will pose the greatest threat the following winter. A vaccine targeting that strain would then be administered in the fall."

This is the kind of sensible Public Health approach that is needed to protect the population from mutating strains of covid-19. The question is, what can we do about it?

Anyone have any ideas?

Fuget about it.

[save the frogs]

here we go again.

another 32 page ping pong match debating whether the vaccines are effective or not.

[Scott]

A post quoting a source that is behind a paywall has been reported and removed.  

 

[onthedarkside]

A misleading post has been removed speculating on the need for further boosters when the study links that were provided clearly stated:

 

"the updated vaccines did provide slightly better protection than the original vaccines, the study found."

 

"it is important to emphasize that although infections may now be more likely, COVID-19 vaccines have been shown to remain effective at preventing hospitalization and severe disease even against Omicron"

[onthedarkside]

Troll post with unapproved video source taken out of context. This topic is not about Bill Gates.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's indeed true that SOME of the very early studies (based mostly on blood serum levels only) done on the newer bivalent vaccines raised questions about whether they were more effective, and-or meaningfully more effective than the original mRNA vaccines in protecting against the currently circulating COVID virus strains.

 

However, as the bivalent vaccines have rolled out and come into broader use around the world, there have been numerous studies reported more recently that consistently show the bivalent vaccine CLEARLY and substantially outperforms the original vaccine against currently circulating versions of the virus.

 

Some of those studies are also blood serum studies, but others more recently are instead real-world follow-up comparisons (old vs new vaccines) looking at what actually happened with vaccinated people post vaccination.

 

Here's a sampling of those, as reported earlier this week:

COVID bivalent booster appears to offer added benefits against Omicron

January 28, 2023

 

A trio of new studies concludes that the COVID-19 bivalent (two-strain) vaccine booster offers added protection against infection with the Omicron and its major subvariants and against severe illness.

...

[In one study] Vaccine effectiveness (VE) against severe infection resulting in hospitalization 15 to 99 days after receipt of one monovalent booster dose was 25.2% (95% confidence interval [CI], -0.2% to 44.2%), and the corresponding VE for a bivalent booster dose was 58.7% (95% CI, 43.7% to 69.8%).

...

In a UNC at Chapel Hill press release, senior author Zack Moore, MD, MPH, state epidemiologist at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, said that the increased VE in the study shows why it's important for people to get the bivalent booster, even if they originally received one monovalent dose.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/covid-bivalent-booster-appears-offer-added-benefits-against-omicron

 

The full article above lays out all the details and vaccine comparisons in the three cited studies. I'd offer more details here about those, but am limited of how much I can quote by the forum's fair use quoting policies.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JNASHDDS]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's indeed true that SOME of the very early studies (based mostly on blood serum levels only) done on the newer bivalent vaccines raised questions about whether they were more effective, and-or meaningfully more effective than the original mRNA vaccines in protecting against the currently circulating COVID virus strains.

 

However, as the bivalent vaccines have rolled out and come into broader use around the world, there have been numerous studies reported more recently that consistently show the bivalent vaccine CLEARLY and substantially outperforms the original vaccine against currently circulating versions of the virus.

 

Some of those studies are also blood serum studies, but others more recently are instead real-world follow-up comparisons (old vs new vaccines) looking at what actually happened with vaccinated people post vaccination.

 

Here's a sampling of those, as reported earlier this week:

COVID bivalent booster appears to offer added benefits against Omicron

January 28, 2023

 

A trio of new studies concludes that the COVID-19 bivalent (two-strain) vaccine booster offers added protection against infection with the Omicron and its major subvariants and against severe illness.

...

[In one study] Vaccine effectiveness (VE) against severe infection resulting in hospitalization 15 to 99 days after receipt of one monovalent booster dose was 25.2% (95% confidence interval [CI], -0.2% to 44.2%), and the corresponding VE for a bivalent booster dose was 58.7% (95% CI, 43.7% to 69.8%).

...

In a UNC at Chapel Hill press release, senior author Zack Moore, MD, MPH, state epidemiologist at the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, said that the increased VE in the study shows why it's important for people to get the bivalent booster, even if they originally received one monovalent dose.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/covid-bivalent-booster-appears-offer-added-benefits-against-omicron

 

The full article above lays out all the details and vaccine comparisons in the three cited studies. I'd offer more details here about those, but am limited of how much I can quote by the forum's fair use quoting policies.

 

Members of this Forum can certainly quibble and offer their own opinions about vaccine efficacy, etc.; but it's clear that Thailand is not pursuing an up-to-date covid vaccination policy and is stuck with the 2020 - 21 model, relying on their stock of monovalent vaccines instead of state-of-the-art bivalents- to the detriment of everyone who lives here.  Fyi from the U.S. FDA last week: "The agency, in briefing documents released in advance of a meeting this week with its vaccine advisers, said the goal is to determine in the spring which strain will pose the greatest threat the following winter. A vaccine targeting that strain would then be administered in the fall."

This is the kind of sensible Public Health approach that is needed to protect the population from mutating strains of covid-19. The question is, what can we do about it?

Anyone have any ideas?

[JNASHDDS]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:19 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Tone deaf Thailand -- The U.S. is likely headed toward totally discontinuing use of the original COVID vaccines and making all future vaccinations (for now) the newer bivalent variety:

 

FDA advisors recommend replacing original Covid vaccine with bivalent omicron shots for all doses

 

The Food and Drug Administration’s independent advisory committee on Thursday recommended replacing Pfizer and Moderna’s original Covid vaccine used in the U.S. for everyone’s first two immunizations with the new bivalent omicron shots.

 

If the FDA accepts the advisors’ recommendation, the U.S. would likely phase out the companies’ vaccines developed in 2020 against the original Covid-19 strain that emerged in Wuhan, China.

 

Instead, the drugmakers’ bivalent omicron shots that target the omicron BA.5 subvariant as well as the original strain would be used for the entire vaccination series.

 

(more)

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/fda-advisors-recommend-using-covid-omicron-shots-for-all-doses.html

 

 

You are obviously very well-informed on this topic. Do you have an influential contact in BKK that might be willing to champion this cause?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, JNASHDDS said:

You are obviously very well-informed on this topic. Do you have an influential contact in BKK that might be willing to champion this cause?

 

The first time around, if I recall correctly, it was the local home country foreign chambers of commerce and business groups that helped advocate for getting the mRNA vaccines donated here... and calling attention to their governments back home about the inequity of the original mRNA vaccines being available to their country nationals back home, but not to their expat citizens living abroad.

 

In the case of the U.S., I believe, that cause was helped at the time when it was revealed that U.S. Embassy/Consulate staff here had all been offered/given the original mRNA vaccines by the feds, at a time when American expats here remained without.

 

AT present, however, there doesn't seem to be the same urgency as there was the first time around, and the update of the newer bivalent vaccines has been low even in places like the U.S., where it's only about 15% of the population thus far, and that skewing heavily to the older age groups.

 

And yet, from the reports I saw this week, still more than 500 Americans are dying every day on average from COVID.... But it just doesn't seem to get attention or focus anymore..... sadly.

 

World:

 

"At a WHO executive board meeting today, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, PhD, said, the world is in a better place entering the fourth year of the pandemic, but he aired concerns about increasing deaths, with more than 170,000 reported over the past 8 weeks."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/who-covid-still-emergency-inflection-point

 

U.S., per the CDC:

 

"The current 7-day [daily] average of new deaths (537) decreased 4.9% compared with the previous 7-day average (564). As of January 25, 2023, a total of 1,103,615 COVID-19 deaths have been reported in the United States.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html