Ban assault weapons now! Ban them now! Once and for all."

[Social Media]

 

[vandeventer]

Sorry Joe, we may need the guns to shoot down all the low flying balloons coming from China.

 

 

[internationalism]

did  ever democrats put gun ban on election manifesto?

will they do it now?

[tilaceer]

4 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Sorry Joe, we may need the guns to shoot down all the low flying balloons coming from China.

 

 

Start with this one.

[Tug]

The vast majority of us want stricter gun laws unfortunately they give a lot of money to the politicians personally I’m all for banning all semi auto long guns but not semi auto hand guns they imo do have a legitimate place in home/sielf defense the long guns are designed to (reach out and touch someone) bolt action is just fine for hunting and superior for target shooters let’s get it done and stop the carnage 

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, Tug said:

The vast majority of us want stricter gun laws unfortunately they give a lot of money to the politicians personally I’m all for banning all semi auto long guns but not semi auto hand guns they imo do have a legitimate place in home/sielf defense the long guns are designed to (reach out and touch someone) bolt action is just fine for hunting and superior for target shooters let’s get it done and stop the carnage 

The problem Tug is that the long guns are very rarely used in crime and murder as well.  Plus semi auto long guns is a very large number of long guns overall. Not so many bolt action rifles left. 

 

A large amount gun crime is done using pistols, generally semi auto, generally young black men attacking and killing other young black men. 

 

As for banning "assault weapons", first we need an adequate definition of what an assault weapon actually is before we can begin to have a productive discussion.   Seems for a lot of people it just means "a scary looking gun". 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

The problem Tug is that the long guns are very rarely used in crime and murder as well.  Plus semi auto long guns is a very large number of long guns overall. Not so many bolt action rifles left. 

 

A large amount gun crime is done using pistols, generally semi auto, generally young black men attacking and killing other young black men. 

 

As for banning "assault weapons", first we need an adequate definition of what an assault weapon actually is before we can begin to have a productive discussion.   Seems for a lot of people it just means "a scary looking gun". 

There’s always an excuse for doing nothing.

[Chomper Higgot]

I personally think it’s time for businesses to step up and ban guns being carried on their premises.

 

 

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There’s always an excuse for doing nothing.

Is that what an inconvenient truth is called now, "an excuse"?  

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Is that what an inconvenient truth is called now, "an excuse"?  

It’s an excuse.

 

Clinton’s ban on assault weapons reduced mass killings during the period it was in place.

It wasn’t a perfect solution but it saved lives.

 

Banning assault rifles, and those seen carrying them are immediately identifiable as breaking the law and a threat.

 

 

 

[Credo]

Over the past years, it's become clear that these assault-style weapons have no place in society.  None.  It's sickening to see the enormous body count that results from the use of these weapons on innocent victims.   

I suspect a lot of mass shooters would not be quite so brave without them.   

[Hanaguma]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s an excuse.

 

Clinton’s ban on assault weapons reduced mass killings during the period it was in place.

It wasn’t a perfect solution but it saved lives.

 

Banning assault rifles, and those seen carrying them are immediately identifiable as breaking the law and a threat.

 

 

 

Statistically it saved no lives.  Mass killings are insignificant when weighed against the larger picture of crime and murder in general.  

 

Still waiting to hear what an "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" actually is...

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Credo said:

Over the past years, it's become clear that these assault-style weapons have no place in society.  None.  It's sickening to see the enormous body count that results from the use of these weapons on innocent victims.   

I suspect a lot of mass shooters would not be quite so brave without them.   

Enormous body counts are a result of handguns.  Knives kill more people in a year than ALL long guns combined- rifles, shotguns etc.  Mass shooters use handguns as often as rifles. 

 

Again ,waiting to hear what an "assault style weapon" is...

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

Statistically it saved no lives.  Mass killings are insignificant when weighed against the larger picture of crime and murder in general.  

 

Still waiting to hear what an "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" actually is...

‘Statistically it saved no lives.  Mass killings are insignificant when weighed against the larger picture of crime and murder in general. ‘
 

Perhaps you missed the bit about ‘mass killings’ ( there is a clue in the name) being reduced.

 

As I said earlier, there’s always an excuse for doing nothing.

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Statistically it saved no lives.  Mass killings are insignificant when weighed against the larger picture of crime and murder in general. ‘
 

Perhaps you missed the bit about ‘mass killings’ ( there is a clue in the name) being reduced.

 

As I said earlier, there’s always an excuse for doing nothing.

Sorry to sound cold, but reducing mass killings is irrelevant.  

 

Even factcheck.org, hardly a friend of the NRA, said it is "unclear" whether the ban had any measurable effect.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/

[Longwood50]

Now please define exactly what is an assault rife.  

One that "looks scary" 

The much assailed Armalite 15.  (AR-15) has one of the most puny cartridges at .223 caliber.  It is a semi-automatic not any different than any other semi-automatic rifle. 

The Ruger Corporation makes a rifle called a Mini-14.  It comes in an array of models.  One is called the "rancher"  it is very plain.  One is called the tactical and similar to the AR-15 in that it has a muzzle flash, plastic stock, pistol grip, and looks very military.  In terms of functionality, they are absolutely identical.  Both fire the same ammunition, and do so at exactly the same rate.  The only difference is one looks like a hunting rifle, and the other looks like a military rifle. 

So would you be happier if a gunman used the rancher to kill people versus the tactical? 

[Credo]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Sorry to sound cold, but reducing mass killings is irrelevant.  

 

Even factcheck.org, hardly a friend of the NRA, said it is "unclear" whether the ban had any measurable effect.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/

Whether it is 'measurable' is questionable, but we do know that they do nothing but add to the problem of mass shootings.  Those guns have no other purpose than killing people.  They are a weapon of war and do not belong in a civil society.   

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

The problem Tug is that the long guns are very rarely used in crime and murder as well.  Plus semi auto long guns is a very large number of long guns overall. Not so many bolt action rifles left. 

 

A large amount gun crime is done using pistols, generally semi auto, generally young black men attacking and killing other young black men. 

 

As for banning "assault weapons", first we need an adequate definition of what an assault weapon actually is before we can begin to have a productive discussion.   Seems for a lot of people it just means "a scary looking gun". 

The problem is hanaguma is most of the defective mass murdering dirt bags are using gas operated semi auto long guns to do their evil deeds you know like slaughtering grade school kids,students,and minorities + just regular folks cause they can kill and maim innocents more quickly jee I hope that helps as far as definitions for assault rifles a really easy way is ANY semi auto long gun I hope that helps let’s all stop the bs and start working towards stopping the needless slaughter keeping in mind the second amendment egro leave the semi auto hand guns out of the equation also all guns are (scary) in the hands of a nutter 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

The problem is hanaguma is most of the defective mass murdering dirt bags are using gas operated semi auto long guns to do their evil deeds you know like slaughtering grade school kids,students,and minorities + just regular folks cause they can kill and maim innocents more quickly jee I hope that helps as far as definitions for assault rifles a really easy way is ANY semi auto long gun I hope that helps let’s all stop the bs and start working towards stopping the needless slaughter keeping in mind the second amendment egro leave the semi auto hand guns out of the equation also all guns are (scary) in the hands of a nutter 

uh.......... I get it. Stream of thought.  

 

And you are wrong.  ALL long guns together account for 3% of murders committed with firearms.  And mass killings about 3% of all firearms murders. 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

 

So you are really spending a great deal of energy and attention on something that is not a significant part of the problem. 

 

Handguns work just as well to kill lots of people as do long guns, plus they are easier to carry and conceal.  

[Hanaguma]

32 minutes ago, Credo said:

Whether it is 'measurable' is questionable, but we do know that they do nothing but add to the problem of mass shootings.  Those guns have no other purpose than killing people.  They are a weapon of war and do not belong in a civil society.   

But what are "they"?  Not weapons of war, that is for sure. No army in the world uses the AR15. Most militaries use fully automatic weapons, which are virtually unobtainable in the US.  You want to ban the most popular gun in the US, you had better come up with a more compelling reason.

[KhunLA]

Almost impossible to buy, IF  you can even find one, and ridiculously expensive to buy and keep in the USA.  

 

https://www.britannica.com/technology/assault-rifle

 

Fun facts for you, even surprised me:

... there are over 630k legal fully automatic assault rifles registered in the USA.   Ownership can't be transferred without approval of ATF

https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2018-12-21/automatic-weapons-are-legal-but-it-takes-a-lot-to-get-one-of-the-630-000-in-the-u-s

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by KhunLA

[Credo]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

But what are "they"?  Not weapons of war, that is for sure. No army in the world uses the AR15. Most militaries use fully automatic weapons, which are virtually unobtainable in the US.  You want to ban the most popular gun in the US, you had better come up with a more compelling reason.

Well, I am glad to hear they don't use them in war.  Then they should be banned completely and totally.  They have no use except to kill people.  

 

[James105]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

But what are "they"?  Not weapons of war, that is for sure. No army in the world uses the AR15. Most militaries use fully automatic weapons, which are virtually unobtainable in the US.  You want to ban the most popular gun in the US, you had better come up with a more compelling reason.

So America does have gun control then.   I was under the impression that gun control was pointless as criminals will be criminals.   Since America already has gun control whats the problem with the controls being tightened to make it a tiny bit harder for the next lunatic to kill quite as many kids in the next school massacre?  

[Hanaguma]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

So America does have gun control then.   I was under the impression that gun control was pointless as criminals will be criminals.   Since America already has gun control whats the problem with the controls being tightened to make it a tiny bit harder for the next lunatic to kill quite as many kids in the next school massacre?  

Nothing at all. But hysterical shouting will not solve anything.  And focusing on a relatively rare and (from a statistical perspective) minor issue like mass shootings does nothing to impact the overall crime rate or murder rate.  Banning Weapon A will only make criminals use Weapon B.  

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Well, I am glad to hear they don't use them in war.  Then they should be banned completely and totally.  They have no use except to kill people.  

 

Then why do you call them "weapons of war"? The rhetoric is inaccurate and unhelpful.  Still waiting to hear your definition of what "they" are...

[Hanaguma]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Almost impossible to buy, IF  you can even find one, and ridiculously expensive to buy and keep in the USA.  

 

https://www.britannica.com/technology/assault-rifle

 

Fun facts for you, even surprised me:

... there are over 630k legal fully automatic assault rifles registered in the USA.   Ownership can't be transferred without approval of ATF

https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2018-12-21/automatic-weapons-are-legal-but-it-takes-a-lot-to-get-one-of-the-630-000-in-the-u-s

 

 

Thank you for proving my point.  Less than one percent of firearms in the US are full auto.  More than 99% are semi auto or single shot.  And, using this definition of "assault rifle", almost never used in mass shootings. 

[Longwood50]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

Those guns have no other purpose than killing people.  They are a weapon of war and do not belong in a civil society.   

You are wrong.  The rifle most often characterized as an assault rifle is the AR-15 which does not stand for Assault Rifle.  In terms of power the AR-15 and others like it use the .223 caliber bullet.  That caliber is banned for deer hunting in 10 states because they game officials find the caliber to small to effectively kill a deer.  

Now lets assume that those who wish to ban those "scary" looking military style rifles.  What is accomplished is that those who wish to create carnage merely purchase the identical rifle, that does not have the muzzle flash, pistol grip, plastic stock, or the plastic forearm that gives it the "look" of a military rifle.  The Ruger mini-14 comes as a Rancher model and looks like an everyday hunting rifle.  The Ruger tactical has the appearance that it is used in the military but that is purely cosmetic.  Functionally the two are identical.  They shoot the same exact ammunition, can carry the same number of cartridges, and fire at exactly the same rate.  It is like putting a spoiler, hood scoop, dual exhausts, and racing tires on a car.  It may make the car look like a powerful race car but it is purely cosmetics. 

The other choice would be for the person who is bent on killing people to upgrade to something truly lethal.  The .30-06 caliber is one of the most popular hunting cartridges and can be used on game as large as a grizzly bear.  at .30 it is significantly larger than the .22 caliber used in the AR-15 and similar rifles.  

Lethality of a rifle is based on the speed of the bullet, the construction of the bullet and its weight.  A golf ball is the same size as a ping pong ball but if traveling at the same speed the ping pong ball slows down quicker and has less knock down power because it is lighter.  Same with bullets.  The .223 comes in weights as low as 40 grains and only as large as 77 grains.  By contrast the 30-06 starts at 109.6 grains and goes as larger as 220.7 grains enough to kill a moose or grizzly bear. 

So congratulations banning those puny rifles may well put something truly deadly in their hands instead. 

AR-15-platform rifles are among the most popular firearms being sold. They are today's modern sporting rifle.  The AR in "AR-15" rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. "AR" does NOT stand for "assault rifle" or "automatic rifle."  AR-15-style rifles are NOT "assault weapons" or "assault rifles." An assault rifle is fully automatic -- a machine gun. Automatic firearms have been severely restricted from civilian ownership since 1934.

 

It's best to look at the states that don't allow deer hunting with . 223 diameter bullet or an AR-15 rifle. Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Washington, and West Virginia require larger bullets to be used to hunt game.

[Longwood50]

21 minutes ago, James105 said:

Since America already has gun control whats the problem with the controls being tightened to make it a tiny bit harder for the next lunatic to kill quite as many kids in the next school massacre?  

I am for that.  Please explain exactly how you do that.  Seems like the USA already has a myriad of laws making it illegal to import, sell, or use numerous drugs.  How has that worked out with upwards of 107,000 dying in the USA each year from just the opiod based drugs like heroin, and fentanyl.  

Try this for harder.  Mexico has only 1 legal gun store.  It is on a military base in Mexico City.  To legally purchase a gun takes months of background checks, and no matter where you live in Mexico you must travel to Mexico City to purchase the gun.  How has that worked out for the murder rate in Mexico from guns? 

What is accomplished is that law abiding citizens will be hampered in securing a firearm that will be used properly and those who can't legally obtain a gun will now have to buy it on the black market.  

PS of all the mass shootings, there is not one instance of the shooter having anything in their background that precluded them from purchasing the guns legally.  So this "tiny little bit" harder statement is blatantly false. 

You want to stop gun violence.  The overwhelming majority of it is not mass shootings but rather gang violence involving drugs.  Stop the drug trafficking by making it more difficult to enter the USA from Mexico and a lot of that violence goes away.  You will never stop the madman from inflicting mass death if that is their aim.  Some have chosen cars, trucks, snow plows.  Timothy McVeigh showed what can be done with just  a few plastic barrels filled with ordinary fertilizer and diesel fuel bringing down an entire building and 168 deaths. 

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Thank you for proving my point.  Less than one percent of firearms in the US are full auto.  More than 99% are semi auto or single shot.  And, using this definition of "assault rifle", almost never used in mass shootings. 

Not almost ... but never used in mass shooting.

 

People want info, they should check FBI stats, they find that most people are killed by their wife, husband or acquaintance.

 

Most people killed by handguns;   

2019, 10,258 murders by firearms

364 by rifle 

200+ by shotgun

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

 

2019 ... 13,927 murders, only 1372 by strangers

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-10.xls

 

Don't pisss people off.  350ish million people in USA, and only 1372 were random killing.  Chance of someone just pointing a firearm at you is fairly non existent.

 

With few exceptions, violent crimes have dropped almost every year.

STOP READING THE HEADLINES .. start reading the facts.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

The problem Tug is that the long guns are very rarely used in crime and murder as well.  Plus semi auto long guns is a very large number of long guns overall. Not so many bolt action rifles left. 

 

A large amount gun crime is done using pistols, generally semi auto, generally young black men attacking and killing other young black men. 

 

As for banning "assault weapons", first we need an adequate definition of what an assault weapon actually is before we can begin to have a productive discussion.   Seems for a lot of people it just means "a scary looking gun". 

Most people that know nothing about rifles probably think any semi automatic rifle with a pistol grip and a magazine capable of holding more than 5 rounds is an "assault weapon" as their knowledge probably comes from war movies.

 

Personally, if I lived in the US, where home invasions by multiple gangsters occurs, I'd want a weapon with as many rounds as possible, given it takes a lot of bullets to actually take down moving targets.

 

IMO it's just Biden pandering to his base, as he must know a "ban" is unlikely, and that all a "ban" would do is take them off law abiding people- the bad guys can get all the weapons they want.