Covid Count Reaches Around 2,800-3,889 A Day In Thailand

[ozimoron]

On 2/14/2023 at 2:56 PM, Lizzy Duang said:

No. Just see graph 1 and 3 here: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/why-do-vaccinated-people-represent-most-covid-19-deaths-right-now/

So 58 percent were vaccinated in the US in August 22 but also amounted to more than 58 percent of COVID deaths (about 3800 vs 2700).

That's a statistical product of most people being vaccinated and in no way a result of being vaccinated. The deaths would absolutely be more if less people had been vaccinated. Basic statistics in lacking among anti vax proselytisers. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

We're all sooo bored of boosters. And do we now have to pay for vax? If it's free, there may be takers. If it costs, those numbers will go up. Covid isn't finished with us yet.

AFAIK, the current Thai government policy here is that....

 

--COVID booster shots for long-term residents are supposed to remain free from gov vax sites.

 

--but they've lately implemented a pay for vax program aimed at tourist visitors.... but those remain (at least for now) the original COVID vaccines, not the newer bivalent ones.

[edwardandtubs]

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As the Cochrane authors explained, a lot of the studies they included in their reporting pre-dated COVID entirely

The Conversation article also contains studies that predate covid but you don't seem to think that invalidates the conclusions. It's clear that you're living in a state of fear and anxiety about covid and you'll search Google and then paste on this forum anything that you think validates these fears.

Edited February 15, 2023 by edwardandtubs

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

The Conversation article also contains studies that predate covid but you don't seem to think that invalidates the conclusions. It's clear that you're living in a state of fear and anxiety about covid and you'll search Google for anything that you think validates these fears.

I pay attention to credible information sources on the subject (including the primary public health organizations like CDC and WHO), and actually read and comprehend the entirety of what's reported.

 

Scientific evidence supports the use of face masks to reduce COVID-19 spread, mainly by preventing infectious liquid particles from reaching uninfected people

 

"COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through infectious liquid particles spread from infected to uninfected individuals. Masks act as simple physical barriers that reduce the dissemination of these liquid particles, which are generated by people when they cough, sneeze, or speak. Several published studies showed that wearing face masks reduces the spread of viral infectious diseases like COVID-19."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-supports-wearing-a-face-mask-to-reduce-covid-19-spread-mainly-by-preventing-infectious-liquid-particles-from-reaching-other-people/

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edwardandtubs]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I pay attention to credible information sources on the subject (including the primary public health organizations like CDC and WHO), and actually read and comprehend the entirety of what's reported.

 

Scientific evidence supports the use of face masks to reduce COVID-19 spread, mainly by preventing infectious liquid particles from reaching uninfected people

 

"COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through infectious liquid particles spread from infected to uninfected individuals. Masks act as simple physical barriers that reduce the dissemination of these liquid particles, which are generated by people when they cough, sneeze, or speak. Several published studies showed that wearing face masks reduces the spread of viral infectious diseases like COVID-19."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-supports-wearing-a-face-mask-to-reduce-covid-19-spread-mainly-by-preventing-infectious-liquid-particles-from-reaching-other-people/

 

Nice googling again but we're never going to reach a stage where all the world's health organisations and scientists come out together and say, "It's alright everyone! Panic over! It's safe to come out now without your masks on!" So you'll be living the rest of your life in a state fear and anxiety, hiding behind your mask and spending all day justifying that to yourself by posting on this forum every five minutes. If you want to live your life that way, that's fine, but most people have chosen to move on.

[brewsterbudgen]

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I pay attention to credible information sources on the subject (including the primary public health organizations like CDC and WHO), and actually read and comprehend the entirety of what's reported.

 

Scientific evidence supports the use of face masks to reduce COVID-19 spread, mainly by preventing infectious liquid particles from reaching uninfected people

 

"COVID-19 is mainly transmitted through infectious liquid particles spread from infected to uninfected individuals. Masks act as simple physical barriers that reduce the dissemination of these liquid particles, which are generated by people when they cough, sneeze, or speak. Several published studies showed that wearing face masks reduces the spread of viral infectious diseases like COVID-19."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-supports-wearing-a-face-mask-to-reduce-covid-19-spread-mainly-by-preventing-infectious-liquid-particles-from-reaching-other-people/

 

It's all moot anyway. Masks are not mandatory here. Wear one if you like, but don't insist that others do. Not quite sure why it's such a big deal!

[ozimoron]

Just now, edwardandtubs said:

Nice googling again but we're never going to reach a stage where all the world's health organisations and scientists come out together and say, "It's alright everyone! Panic over! It's safe to come out now without your masks on!" So you'll be living the rest of your life in a state fear and anxiety, hiding behind your mask and spending all day justifying that to yourself by posting on this forum every five minutes. If you want to live your life that way, that's fine, but most people have chosen to move on.

Why aren't we? Do you have some evidence that this virus will never end? Other's have, why not this one?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

don't insist that others do

I don't think I have..... Just presenting the facts and evidence on the topic, and explaining why I do what I do.

 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It's all moot anyway. Masks are not mandatory here. Wear one if you like, but don't insist that others do. Not quite sure why it's such a big deal!

Where is he insisting people wear them.  Common sense needs to be used as well as a mask in certain locations. Protect yourself, or better yet don't and see what happens.  True schools are just now releasing the use of Masks yet folks are still recommending they be used in certain circumstances....

Edited February 15, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[edwardandtubs]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Why aren't we? Do you have some evidence that this virus will never end? Other's have, why not this one?

No endemic respiratory virus has ever come to an end and no scientist or health authority expects this one to.

Edited February 15, 2023 by edwardandtubs

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

No endemic respiratory virus has ever come to an end and no scientist or health authority expects this one to.

Most pandemics come to an end.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/will-the-coronavirus-pandemic-ever-end

 

However, the COVID-19 pandemic eventually will end. 

 

If you’re weary of this pandemic, it’s important to remember that you can literally help bring about the end of it by taking individual actions to curb its spread. 

 

https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20200911/will-covid-ever-end

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Most pandemics come to an end.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/will-the-coronavirus-pandemic-ever-end

 

However, the COVID-19 pandemic eventually will end. 

 

If you’re weary of this pandemic, it’s important to remember that you can literally help bring about the end of it by taking individual actions to curb its spread. 

 

https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20200911/will-covid-ever-end

 

 

Pandemics come to an end when people consider them to be at an end and get on with their lives. The virus itself though remains endemic and covid is no different. So if you're hoping you can hide away until some time in the future when everything will be safe, that time will never come.

[Lizzy Duang]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The deaths would absolutely be more if less people had been vaccinated. B

Well, look at African countries in the quoted Worldometer stats. They are the least vaccinated but also have the least deaths. Hmm, strange, isn't it?

[ozimoron]

22 minutes ago, Lizzy Duang said:

Well, look at African countries in the quoted Worldometer stats. They are the least vaccinated but also have the least deaths. Hmm, strange, isn't it?

No, the data is incomplete. 

[onthedarkside]

Comment on moderation has been removed.

[Lizzy Duang]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, the data is incomplete. 

But CDC's and other data is complete? Then, when you expect a vaccine to work, you will first determine the share of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a population. Than you will determine the share of vaccinated and unvaccinated in COVID deaths. If the percentage is the same as above, you may have doubts in the effectiveness of the vaccine. 

[Lizzy Duang]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:10 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You have no credible source for what you're claiming re excess death

Yes, here is one: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-64209221

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Lizzy Duang said:

Yes, here is one: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-64209221

Not true, that article clearly states:

"No evidence of vaccine effect"

 

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, Lizzy Duang said:

But CDC's and other data is complete? Then, when you expect a vaccine to work, you will first determine the share of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a population. Than you will determine the share of vaccinated and unvaccinated in COVID deaths. If the percentage is the same as above, you may have doubts in the effectiveness of the vaccine. 

There's already a plethora of data which proves beyond shadow of doubt that vaccines prevent serious illness and death from covid. The jury isn't out. If a country's data suggests otherwise then 100% the data is suspect. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not true, that article clearly states:

"No evidence of vaccine effect"

 

Yes, and the other poster who was claiming a relation to COVID vaccines -- to whom I replied the above quoted response "You have no credible source for what you're claiming" -- shortly thereafter had his post removed by the moderators. So it's no longer here...

 

But the BBC report, despite member Lizzy Duang now trying to misrepresent it, clearly says:

 

"No evidence of vaccine effect

The rise in cardiac problems has been pointed to by some online as evidence that Covid vaccines are driving the rise in deaths, but this conclusion is not supported by the data.
 

One type of Covid vaccine has been linked to a small rise in cases of heart inflammation and scarring (pericarditis and myocarditis). But this particular vaccine side-effect was mainly seen in boys and young men, while the excess deaths are highest in older men - aged 50 or more."

 

My quoted comment above that Lizzy posted the BBC article in response to was specifically replying to the prior false claim of vaccine related excess deaths -- not other types of excess deaths such as those described in the BBC report.

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lizzy Duang]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not true, that article clearly states:

"No evidence of vaccine effect"

 

I didn't say otherwise, I used the word "might". But I gave you an article that stated excess death. It also gives you a lot of possible interpretations that obviously still "lack data" ("some of the excess may be ...") . I  also recently recommended the book Factfulness by Hans Rosling to first understand our misconceptions of stats and second include other possibilities in our reasoning. You cannot expect mainstream media to do that because they supported the vaccine mandate.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lizzy Duang
Typo

[onthedarkside]

Just now, Lizzy Duang said:

I didn't say otherwise, I used the word "might". But I gave you an article that stated excess death. It also gives you a lot of possible interpretations that obviously still "lack data" ("some of the excess may be ...") . I  also recently recommended the book Factfulnessby Hans Rossling to first understand our misconceptions of stats and second include other possibilities in our reasoning. You cannot expect mainstream media to do that because they supported the vaccine mandate.

The clear interpretation it does give is that it is not vaccine related. Despite your insinuation that it may be. Disinformation at best.

[spidermike007]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And your source for that claim is???

 

You think that today, even in the time of Omicron, that the US CDC and the WHO both recommend people wear face masks because they don't work?

 

Is the AMA good enough as a source?

 

While reusable cloth masks have been recommended until recently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other experts acknowledge N95, KN95 or KF94 masks provide the most protection when in public indoor spaces given how transmissible the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant is. 

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-wearing-n95-masks

 

 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Is the AMA good enough as a source?

 

While reusable cloth masks have been recommended until recently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other experts acknowledge N95, KN95 or KF94 masks provide the most protection when in public indoor spaces given how transmissible the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant is. 

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-wearing-n95-masks

Of course you will acknowledge that ordinary surgical masks still provide a good level of protection from infection.

 

Wearing an N95 or KN95 mask reduces the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 by 83%. This is compared with 66% for surgical masks

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Is the AMA good enough as a source?

 

While reusable cloth masks have been recommended until recently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other experts acknowledge N95, KN95 or KF94 masks provide the most protection when in public indoor spaces given how transmissible the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant is. 

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-wearing-n95-masks

 

 

 

Your original claim that I had challenged you on was:

 

"It has been established that the common cotton, or surgical mask that 99% use, is of minor effect when it comes to catching covid. It does help to prevent transmission of illness, a little bit."

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1286467-covid-count-reaches-around-2800-3889-a-day-in-thailand/?do=findComment&comment=17902022

 

Note your use of the claim "minor effect when it comes to catching covid" and "a little bit" in preventing transmission.

 

The AMA article you cite above doesn't support your claim, since it specifically says surgical and cloth masks have significant protective value (66% for surgical masks and 56% for cloth masks)... not the "minor effect" and "a little bit" you claimed.

 

From the AMA article you cited:

 

"In fact, N95 and KN95 masks were found to be 48% more effective than surgical or cloth masks, according to a CDC study. Wearing an N95 or KN95 mask reduces the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 by 83%. This is compared with 66% for surgical masks and 56% for cloth masks, further pushing the need to swap out such face coverings for an N95 or KN95 mask for protection from SARS-CoV-2."

 

That said, I've long and loudly and repeatedly maintained here, as public health experts agree, that N95 masks are the best available mask that the public can use. Those are the variety I've used daily for the past 3 years.  But that doesn't mean the others have little value as you wrongly claimed.

 

However, it is nice to see you finally coming around to endorsing the wearing of N95 masks as an important protective measure against COVID -- considering your prior posting history on the subject.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is the CDC study/survey that the AMA article drew its mask effectiveness figures from:

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm?s_cid=mm7106e1_x#T1_down

 

Although in fairness, this was a survey done in California back during 2021 before the more transmissible Omicron variant had become predominant. So the numbers these days probably would be somewhat lower across the range of mask types.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[h90]

Yes TallGuyJohninBKK. There is no mandate for mask or vaccine.
So all is OK, these who think the masks are stupid are free to walk without and these who think they need it, can wear it.
I think that should allow for a peaceful living together.

[ozimoron]

10 hours ago, rabang said:

The pandemic is over in all but name, get over it and find yourself something else to obsess about.

That's your opinion. Rising case numbers are facts. 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

That's your opinion. Rising case numbers are facts. 

Is it still a pandemic if it's just a mild illness for most people?  When does it just become another viral infection that is part of everyday life?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Is it still a pandemic if it's just a mild illness for most people?  When does it just become another viral infection that is part of everyday life?

 

Every day in the U.S., about 450 people are dying from COVID and another 3500+ are being hospitalized, per the U.S. CDC.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

 

COVID for 2022 was likely to remain one of the top causes of death in the U.S., along with cancer and heart disease.

 

COVID is not such a minor deal for many folks.

 

Per the WHO in their Feb. 15 COVID world update:

 

"Globally, over 6.7 million new cases and over 64 000 deaths were reported in the last 28 days (16 January to 12 February 2023), a decrease of 92% and 47%, respectively, compared to the previous 28 days. As of 12 February 2023, over 755 million confirmed cases and over 6.8 million deaths have been reported globally."

 

https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/weekly-epidemiological-update-on-covid-19---15-february-2023

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK