30 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

I watch both channels daily. Not an American but it doesn't take much 'analysis' to see that both channels lie outright. They both conveniently fail to show anything that is against their owners interests or likely to alienate their core viewer base. 

All of them are biased but the facts do show that Fox lies more than other MSM. This thread shows that's true when the perps actually admit it. Carlson had to explain to a court that rational people should never believe him.

32 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

I watch both channels daily. Not an American but it doesn't take much 'analysis' to see that both channels lie outright. They both conveniently fail to show anything that is against their owners interests or likely to alienate their core viewer base. 

Really? So please give us an example of a comparable event at CNN, like Fox News knowingly lying about an important issue such as US presidential elections.

Lawsuit filing shows Fox hosts didn’t believe election fraud lies they pushed on TV

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/lawsuit-filing-shows-fox-hosts-didnt-believe-election-fraud-lies-they-pushed-on-tv

10 hours ago, biggles45 said:

I watch both channels daily. Not an American but it doesn't take much 'analysis' to see that both channels lie outright. They both conveniently fail to show anything that is against their owners interests or likely to alienate their core viewer base. 

I'm not going to call you a liar, perhaps you watch with the sound off,  and I'm not sure which channels you mean by both. 

 

Real news entities only report after the information has been verified, and when that particular news outlet reports something they haven't been able to verify themselves they will say so, and attribute it to the source they received it from.  If not, they face all sorts of consequences, like a billion $ lawsuit, perhaps their broadcast license.  It would be an extremely stupid thing to do.  This stuff about firing someone for fact checking is pretty damning. 

And of course that attributed source must have some kind of cred.  No sane station manager would permit RT to be cited as a source, but as Fox is growing closer to the people running Russia, with some of its shows picked up by RT (they love Tucker!) they just might.  Waiting for them to quote Q.

 

Also Fox may be a little too big for their britches, what with a certain president listening to their stuff and acting on it the same day -- they understood they were the dog and POTUS was their tail. 

Roger Ailes was the architect of Fox, and when he died there was some speculation that they may become more down to earth.  Well, the joke was on the speculators.  Ailes knew when he was crossing legal lines and would back off.  One of his rules for his on-air personalities was to only attack those who are weak or will not bother to fight back (remember Beck and O'Reiily going after professors at obscure universities?).  I am not stating this in his defense, IMO he was a vile excuse for a human being, just telling it like it was -- I think the most impressive thing he did was on the night of the 2012 election when Karl Rove tried to make a fuss and challenge the results, and Ailes told him to get bent. 

It seems the top of the pyramid on this switch to support the Big Lie is on the Murdochs, either papa or Lachlan.  Time for Tucker to retire back to Southern California and turn himself into a raisin.

 

 

On 2/18/2023 at 6:47 AM, Issanman said:

Makes one wonder how they can be the number one cable news channel for over 20 years.

 

Forbes:

The latest cable news ratings show that, every year since January 2002, Fox has been #1 in total day and primetime viewership as well as #1 in the key 25-54 demo.

I cut the cable about five years ago didn't want that rubbish in my house.

Anyone unaware of this obvious fact is willfully ignorant and part of this stupid and dangerous problem. Murdoch and his gaping team of a-holes should be held seriously accountable for intentionally lying about, well...almost everything. The credible ones all bailed out when it finally got too ???? ???? over-the-top insane. 

On 2/18/2023 at 5:30 AM, Credo said:

They are a little like the people who mixed the Kool-Aid and ushered people into line to drink it for Jim Jones.  They are among the most dishonest of dishonest.  They have betrayed the most sacred trust given to people in the field of journalism.

Only a fool thinks journalists and the media broadcast/publish the truth.

I post this after working 20 years in the business, and only broadcasting what the Brit security forces authorised.

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by BritManToo

Yes Fox news gets it wrong now and then but the left media only get it right now and then. For true reporting about everything that is newsworthy please tune in to Mark Levin podcast, who knows you might just learn something?

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Only a fool thinks journalists and the media broadcast/publish the truth.

I post this after working 20 years in the business, and only broadcasting what the Brit security forces authorised.

You understand politics, and as well defending your country moral and stands, as well public opinion building. Thats what built a nations individual national feeling. Now it is all click baits, and most people is lost, both for themselves and the Nation. Not even religion is an major factor anymore to brainwash people. 

 

Every sheep needs a shepard, and truth is, most people are sheeps.

15 hours ago, biggles45 said:

I watch both channels daily. Not an American but it doesn't take much 'analysis' to see that both channels lie outright. They both conveniently fail to show anything that is against their owners interests or likely to alienate their core viewer base. 

You're being intellectually dishonest.  Who's the one being sued for billions by Dominion?  What Fox did was very much the same as what Alex Jones did with Sandy Hook....lying to the rubes to make money.  Now Jones is on the hook for millions.  Here's hoping Fox gets the same.

41 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Yes Fox news gets it wrong now and then but the left media only get it right now and then. For true reporting about everything that is newsworthy please tune in to Mark Levin podcast, who knows you might just learn something?

Sounds like a very rational kind of guy:

 

'Unfreedom Of The Press' Is Full Of Bombast And Bile

On his show, Levin speaks in the unmistakable tenor of a man experiencing road rage or shouting at a customer service representative. In a recent episode, he yelled at an absent Beto O'Rourke ("Nobody likes a weak man, Beto...Nobody likes a weak man like you."), attacked Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's looks ("her eyeballs are popping out of her head, like ping pong balls."), called Sen. Mitt Romney an "ass," and Sen. Dick Blumenthal a "pathetic, loathsome liar." The media didn't escape his invective either, from CNN's Brian Stelter ("that little creep") to MSNBC's "whole conga line of freaks working its way right up to Rachel Mad Cow."

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/21/724983201/unfreedom-of-the-press-is-full-of-bombast-and-bile

Ted Cruz has pushed for Mark Levin to be a presidential debate moderator.  I think Mitt did also in 2012.  I also recall Mitt say at that time that "we need our own fact checkers."  And that was years before Kellyanne presented her explanation of how facts work.

 

 

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Sounds like a very rational kind of guy:

 

'Unfreedom Of The Press' Is Full Of Bombast And Bile

On his show, Levin speaks in the unmistakable tenor of a man experiencing road rage or shouting at a customer service representative. In a recent episode, he yelled at an absent Beto O'Rourke ("Nobody likes a weak man, Beto...Nobody likes a weak man like you."), attacked Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's looks ("her eyeballs are popping out of her head, like ping pong balls."), called Sen. Mitt Romney an "ass," and Sen. Dick Blumenthal a "pathetic, loathsome liar." The media didn't escape his invective either, from CNN's Brian Stelter ("that little creep") to MSNBC's "whole conga line of freaks working its way right up to Rachel Mad Cow."

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/21/724983201/unfreedom-of-the-press-is-full-of-bombast-and-bile

For people who are unclear on what news is:  If you watch programs where people spew out bile, anger and insults and rarely bother with facts and logic, you are not watching news.

Just now, heybruce said:

For people who are unclear on what news is:  If you watch programs where people spew out bile, anger and insults and rarely bother with facts and logic, you are not watching news.

Your comment will be news to them.

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Sounds like a very rational kind of guy:

 

'Unfreedom Of The Press' Is Full Of Bombast And Bile

On his show, Levin speaks in the unmistakable tenor of a man experiencing road rage or shouting at a customer service representative. In a recent episode, he yelled at an absent Beto O'Rourke ("Nobody likes a weak man, Beto...Nobody likes a weak man like you."), attacked Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's looks ("her eyeballs are popping out of her head, like ping pong balls."), called Sen. Mitt Romney an "ass," and Sen. Dick Blumenthal a "pathetic, loathsome liar." The media didn't escape his invective either, from CNN's Brian Stelter ("that little creep") to MSNBC's "whole conga line of freaks working its way right up to Rachel Mad Cow."

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/21/724983201/unfreedom-of-the-press-is-full-of-bombast-and-bile

He's just Great!!! The truth hurts sometimes, It's nice hearing all the above without referring one word about Trump, Your learning. 

Fox News is little more than infotainment and a lot of its most popular shows are simply talking heads spouting their opinions, backed up by the usual junior varsity, B team 'experts'.  The fact that so many people find them to be credible is simply confirmation of how gullible most people are, especially when they're told something they want to believe.  It's how conmen have operated and profited throughout human history.

 

Equally dangerous are the virtue-signaling, self-appointed 'guardians' of democracy that inhabit almost all of what is referred to as the mainstream media.  They knowingly and intentionally push information that has been stripped of context in order to reach a predetermined conclusion.  Here's just one of a hundred examples:

 

The 'don't say gay' law in Florida.  This is how most of the media refers to this issue.  It's been repeatedly reported that this law is a threat to democracy, as is the governor of Florida, and the new law is a threat to free speech.

 

Unfortunately, they chose to leave out the context.  Florida had a free and fair election where the governor was elected by a huge margin.  The Florida legislature was also elected freely and fairly.  The law they passed simply says a public school teacher can't talk to children 9 years and younger (Grade 3) about gender identity and sexual orientation.

 

How is a law passed by democratically elected legislature, signed by a democratically elected governor a threat to democracy? 

 

What's more dangerous?  The obvious lies spouted by editorial opinions in a biased TV network, or those spouted by the 'guardians' of democracy who start most of their article with "What you need to know about..."?

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

He's just Great!!! The truth hurts sometimes, It's nice hearing all the above without referring one word about Trump, Your learning. 

Clearly, gratuitous insults are your idea of the truth. As for irrelevantly mentioning the name of the ex-President, it's plain to see that you've learnt nothing.

1 hour ago, Lorenzo Valla said:

Fox News is little more than infotainment and a lot of its most popular shows are simply talking heads spouting their opinions, backed up by the usual junior varsity, B team 'experts'.  The fact that so many people find them to be credible is simply confirmation of how gullible most people are, especially when they're told something they want to believe.  It's how conmen have operated and profited throughout human history.

 

Equally dangerous are the virtue-signaling, self-appointed 'guardians' of democracy that inhabit almost all of what is referred to as the mainstream media.  They knowingly and intentionally push information that has been stripped of context in order to reach a predetermined conclusion.  Here's just one of a hundred examples:

 

The 'don't say gay' law in Florida.  This is how most of the media refers to this issue.  It's been repeatedly reported that this law is a threat to democracy, as is the governor of Florida, and the new law is a threat to free speech.

 

Unfortunately, they chose to leave out the context.  Florida had a free and fair election where the governor was elected by a huge margin.  The Florida legislature was also elected freely and fairly.  The law they passed simply says a public school teacher can't talk to children 9 years and younger (Grade 3) about gender identity and sexual orientation.

 

How is a law passed by democratically elected legislature, signed by a democratically elected governor a threat to democracy? 

 

What's more dangerous?  The obvious lies spouted by editorial opinions in a biased TV network, or those spouted by the 'guardians' of democracy who start most of their article with "What you need to know about..."?

What you clearly don't understand is that the USA is a constitutional democracy. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right to freedom of speech. So basing your argument on the fact that these restrictions were voted into law by a majority, is not a valid defense. If it were a valid defense, then it would be okay for legislatures to restrict or ban any kind of speech they chose to.

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

He's just Great!!! The truth hurts sometimes, It's nice hearing all the above without referring one word about Trump, Your learning. 

I guess just like the clown Mark Levin who at first declared himself a never-trumper and then turned around and voted for the guy.

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What you clearly don't understand is that the USA is a constitutional democracy. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right to freedom of speech. So basing your argument on the fact that these restrictions were voted into law by a majority, is not a valid defense. If it were a valid defense, then it would be okay for legislatures to restrict or ban any kind of speech they chose to.

The United States of America is a constitutional federal republic.

 

There is no absolute right to free speech and there are plenty of restrictions placed upon it.

 

The democratically elected government of Florida in well within its rights to place restrictions on what its employees do and say while at work.

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by Lorenzo Valla
misspelling

19 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I guess just like the clown Mark Levin who at first declared himself a never-trumper and then turned around and voted for the guy.

Kim from North Korea was a never Trumper until they became friends. It's a shame he doesn't Biden at all. The same with Mr Levin now they are good friends Who knows when he becomes our next President you may even like him.

38 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Clearly, gratuitous insults are your idea of the truth. As for irrelevantly mentioning the name of the ex-President, it's plain to see that you've learnt nothing.

From the left? I think not!

32 minutes ago, Lorenzo Valla said:

The United States of America is a constitutional federal republic.

 

There is no absolute right to free speech and there are plenty of restrictions placed upon it.

 

The democratically elected government of Florida in well within its rights to place restrictions on what its employees do and say while at work.

As I pointed out, apparently in vain, justifying Florida's restrictions on speech because they were democratically arrived at is not a valid defense. There may be other arguments to support those restrictions, but yours did not.

14 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

From the left? I think not!

Actually, from yourself. You irrelevantly mention the name of someone You accuse others of irrelevantly mentioning.

4 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Yes Fox news gets it wrong now and then but the left media only get it right now and then. For true reporting about everything that is newsworthy please tune in to Mark Levin podcast, who knows you might just learn something?

'Now and then'. Really?
 

I think the whole point of this discussion and the Dominion lawsuit is it isn't 'now and again' but constantly and with purpose. Whether they were backing the ascertion that the election was rigged or that the Capitol attack was nothing to do with Trump but instead orchestrated by Antifa or whoever else was in the crosshairs that week, their once 'opinion pieces' now leak into everyday news (there used to be a split) and it's just pure and unadulterated lies spewed to keep a rabid base away from other right-wing news stations, especially Newsmax.

 

This lawsuit will reveal a great deal about how Fox goes about it's 'business' and I for one hope they get a very large book dropped on them from a very great height.  

19 hours ago, candide said:

Really? So please give us an example of a comparable event at CNN, like Fox News knowingly lying about an important issue such as US presidential elections.

Ok. CNN virtually lead the charge of ongoing lies and omissions which resulted in the Iraq War and (debatably) 500,000+ deaths. 

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Ok. CNN virtually lead the charge of ongoing lies and omissions which resulted in the Iraq War and (debatably) 500,000+ deaths. 

Republican lies caused the Iraq war, not the media.

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Republican lies caused the Iraq war, not the media.

Political lies DO NOT reach citizens ears without media complicity. 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by mikebike

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As I pointed out, apparently in vain, justifying Florida's restrictions on speech because they were democratically arrived at is not a valid defense. There may be other arguments to support those restrictions, but yours did not.

You obviously don't understand how my nation's Constitution functions, or basic laws regarding speech that are almost universally applied throughout the country.  The amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing free speech was approved through a democratic process involving the states' legislatures.  Those same state legislatures could theoretically vote to repeal that amendment, through the representative, democratic process that's contained in our Constitution.

 

Basic restrictions on speech (short list there are many others):

- You may not threaten someone

- You may not incite a riot...cry fire in a crowded theater

- You may not libel or defame someone

 

And common sense should tell you, you can't talk to someone else's 9-year old kid about whether they're gay or straight.  You don't have a 'right' to talk to anyone's dependent child.

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by Lorenzo Valla
misspelling

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Political lies DO NOT reach citizens ears without media complicity. 

The media always reports what politicians say, especially when it comes to accusations of WMD. They are not the cause.