On 3/2/2023 at 6:04 PM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Nothing wrong with this at all.

 

Even Media Studies is preparation for well-paid jobs in professions such as public relations and advertising, let alone print and broadcast journalism. 

I don't disagree, but as they don't intend to "serve" the community like Drs and nurses do, and are just doing it to get a better paying job, then they should pay for the course. Why should the taxpayer support them?

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't disagree, but as they don't intend to "serve" the community like Drs and nurses do, and are just doing it to get a better paying job, then they should pay for the course. Why should the taxpayer support them?

I guess because society in general is better off with a better-educated citizenry, not only financially through higher taxes collected because of better jobs, but also for non-financial reasons.  Taxpayer-supported state universities don't only provide professional education, but also education in the arts and humanities. I think this broader approach to educating the community is often stated as part of the mission of state schools. 

1 hour ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I guess because society in general is better off with a better-educated citizenry, not only financially through higher taxes collected because of better jobs, but also for non-financial reasons.  Taxpayer-supported state universities don't only provide professional education, but also education in the arts and humanities. I think this broader approach to educating the community is often stated as part of the mission of state schools. 

But were this true. 

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But were this true. 

The University of Minnesota's mission statement seems consistent with this:

 https://regents.umn.edu/sites/regents.umn.edu/files/2019-09/policy_mission_statement.pdf

 

I suspect many other state schools have similar.

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I guess because society in general is better off with a better-educated citizenry, not only financially through higher taxes collected because of better jobs, but also for non-financial reasons.  Taxpayer-supported state universities don't only provide professional education, but also education in the arts and humanities. I think this broader approach to educating the community is often stated as part of the mission of state schools. 

IMO society is worse off now that it was back before going to uni was a "normal" thing, and mainly such as Doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers etc went there.

IMO the expansion of universities is to make money, not benefit society.

6 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The University of Minnesota's mission statement seems consistent with this:

 https://regents.umn.edu/sites/regents.umn.edu/files/2019-09/policy_mission_statement.pdf

 

I suspect many other state schools have similar.

Yeah, I don't doubt that. Point? 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO society is worse off now that it was back before going to uni was a "normal" thing, and mainly such as Doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers etc went there.

IMO the expansion of universities is to make money, not benefit society.

And they make a butt-load. 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I don't doubt that. Point? 

I must have misunderstood your earlier post. Sorry.

 

troll post reported/removed

46 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I must have misunderstood your earlier post. Sorry.

What about it did you not understand? 

On 3/1/2023 at 11:55 PM, Tug said:

As a person who has paid all of my student debt I’m absolutely delighted that students of today won’t have such a crushing burden when they are just starting their careers student debt or the fear of it are holding back many students and our country imo

What are your " dream " degrees that most of these students should be getting?  I could just imagine. 

Men's rights activists have been overwhelmingly against loan forgiveness because they see it as yet another free lunch for the wymmyns.

I have nothing against student loan forgiveness.  I do think it is emblematic of a systemic problem with how the US does things.  It is doing with education what it did with health care, and that is to try and fit a solution around a problem rather than to solve the problem.   Education is important, and university level education is extremely important to a society.  Our economic security depends on a well-educated citizenry.  Certainly, our national security requires well-educated people.  

 

The basic problem is the prohibitive cost of education.  If the overall cost of university level education is brought down to a reasonable cost, the problem is solved and things like debt forgiveness won't be necessary.  

 

On 3/6/2023 at 4:29 AM, Credo said:

I have nothing against student loan forgiveness.  I do think it is emblematic of a systemic problem with how the US does things.  It is doing with education what it did with health care, and that is to try and fit a solution around a problem rather than to solve the problem.   Education is important, and university level education is extremely important to a society.  Our economic security depends on a well-educated citizenry.  Certainly, our national security requires well-educated people.  

 

The basic problem is the prohibitive cost of education.  If the overall cost of university level education is brought down to a reasonable cost, the problem is solved and things like debt forgiveness won't be necessary.  

 

OR

 

Work out which degrees actually benefit society, like doctors, engineers, mathematicians, certain types of scientists, etc and give them reduced or even free university education and make the rest pay as normal. Do we really need a degree in media studies?

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

OR

 

Work out which degrees actually benefit society, like doctors, engineers, mathematicians, certain types of scientists, etc and give them reduced or even free university education and make the rest pay as normal. Do we really need a degree in media studies?

...or

 

have prospective students approach financial institutions and make the case as to why they deserve student loans.  Show a plan to pay it back, proof of future income, etc.  Decide based on merit and not on whim.

 

Costs are increasing at universities for sure. A bit part is that university bureaucracies are exploding.  The problem is not teaching staff, it is "support" staff driving the cost. 

11 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...or

 

have prospective students approach financial institutions and make the case as to why they deserve student loans.  Show a plan to pay it back, proof of future income, etc.  Decide based on merit and not on whim.

 

Costs are increasing at universities for sure. A bit part is that university bureaucracies are exploding.  The problem is not teaching staff, it is "support" staff driving the cost. 

A huge part of it is that states have slashed funding for universities.

State Funding for Higher Education Still Lagging
A majority of state legislatures spent far less on public colleges and universities in 2020 than they did in 2008, an NEA analysis shows. This means colleges and universities must rely on students to pay the cost of college—and those students are borrowing to do it.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state-funding-higher-education-still-lagging

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

OR

 

Work out which degrees actually benefit society, like doctors, engineers, mathematicians, certain types of scientists, etc and give them reduced or even free university education and make the rest pay as normal. Do we really need a degree in media studies?

Yes, we do need people with an education in media studies.  We also need people with an education in journalism and all the other components that most people believe are important to a well-informed democracy.   

 

2 minutes ago, Credo said:

Yes, we do need people with an education in media studies.  We also need people with an education in journalism and all the other components that most people believe are important to a well-informed democracy.   

 

I disagree, mainly because I don't think they are well educated at all.

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

A huge part of it is that states have slashed funding for universities.

State Funding for Higher Education Still Lagging
A majority of state legislatures spent far less on public colleges and universities in 2020 than they did in 2008, an NEA analysis shows. This means colleges and universities must rely on students to pay the cost of college—and those students are borrowing to do it.

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state-funding-higher-education-still-lagging

Far less? Did you even look at what you linked to? 

 

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree, mainly because I don't think they are well educated at all.

They aren't they're just in school longer. 

 

I think the universities should be the ones underwriting the loans, and let them forgive all the dept they want. 

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Yes, we do need people with an education in media studies.  We also need people with an education in journalism and all the other components that most people believe are important to a well-informed democracy.   

 

How about the state pays for anyone with a better than 1350 score on the SAT?

 

No other federal funding beyond that. 

 

On 3/6/2023 at 9:27 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree, mainly because I don't think they are well educated at all.

And I suspect you might know a lot about the poorly educated.

 

Post with unapproved source removed.

 

37 minutes ago, Credo said:

And I suspect you might know a lot about the poorly educated.

 

There are certainly a lot more of them these days, yes?