Why it’s time to get over your EV range anxiety

[Scott]

 

Electric vehicle batteries keep getting larger, and the typical driving range between charges keeps growing.

 

The shift is partly a response to “range anxiety”—the fear of being stranded because EV batteries don’t have enough power to get to the next charging station—an idea so familiar in discussions of electric vehicles that it was spoofed in a Ram Super Bowl ad last month.

 

But this concern is unwarranted for a large share of EV customers, according to research from the University of Delaware, published February 21 in the journal Energies.

 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/03/why-its-time-to-officially-get-over-your-ev-range-anxiety/

[thaibeachlovers]

Doesn't matter how large the range is, as for any that can only afford second hand cars, the deciding factor has to be cost of battery replacement. Solve that situation and things may actually change.

As electric cars have only been around a short while, it's going to be a decade or two till they are cheap enough second hand to consider buying.

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doesn't matter how large the range is, as for any that can only afford second hand cars, the deciding factor has to be cost of battery replacement. Solve that situation and things may actually change.

As electric cars have only been around a short while, it's going to be a decade or two till they are cheap enough second hand to consider buying.

First off, especially for people who drive only short distances daily, the battery will almost certainly outlast their ownership. In addition, as battery prices come down, and we're already seeing that with sodium based batteries, longevity should improve as we;;. And there's this:

 

HOW LONG SHOULD AN ELECTRIC CAR’S BATTERY LAST?

The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doesn't matter how large the range is, as for any that can only afford second hand cars, the deciding factor has to be cost of battery replacement. Solve that situation and things may actually change.

As electric cars have only been around a short while, it's going to be a decade or two till they are cheap enough second hand to consider buying.

฿550k / $16k USD, for new, and is as cheap as any entry level ICE, so don't really see price as a reason not to own.   Especially if just knocking around town, and putting 10k kms a year on it.  that's 10-20 yrs of life, for these batteries.

 

After I'm dead, not any time soon I hope, but within 10 yrs, then I really can't see the wife putting 5k kms on the car in a year.  If I make 10 yrs, we'll probably put about 150k kms on it and that's not even the amount covered by warranty (180k), so at worse, should still have 70-80% capacity.   More than enough for her to putt around town for the next 10 yrs.

 

Some YT vids of longer term owners reporting 2-10% degrading batteries over 5-10 yrs.   Impressive.  Other of course, that abuse at high speeds, long distance driving & super fast charging, will kill their batteries quicker.

[Hummin]

The only problem I see with the green changes, we are continuously pushed to consume more, nd change more often things that should have lasted longer, and could have lasted much  longer to keep the drive on the economy. 

 

They will spew out cars and continue the upgrades as well new regulations to push people harder to spend more on things we really do not need. I'm all in for green energy which do not pollute local air and environment, but this is insane what we see now. The best solutions as better public transport, more regulations on trucks and other vehicles cost to much and doesn't have the same effect on the economy.

[ross163103]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

That's under optimum charging conditions; like only topping up to 80% and not letting it drop below 20%-30%; who does that in the real world? Most people will top it up at night to 100% so it's ready the next day, like you're mobile device. The numbers most manufaturers quote is always less under real world conditions. Kind of like the manf stated fuel economy in a petrol powered car, never can acheive it in normal drivng conditions. 

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

That's under optimum charging conditions; like only topping up to 80% and not letting it drop below 20%-30%; who does that in the real world? Most people will top it up at night to 100% so it's ready the next day, like you're mobile device. The numbers most manufaturers quote is always less under real world conditions. Kind of like the manf stated fuel economy in a petrol powered car, never can acheive it in normal drivng conditions. 

Vast majority of EV batteries will outlast their vehicles: report

A study of 21 electric vehicle models — and the introduction of an accompanying interactive tool — brings promising insights for real-world battery longevity

New research released by Geotab measuring the battery life of 6,300 fleet and consumer electric vehicles has provided new insights regarding the lifespan of EV batteries.

https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/12/17/vast-majority-of-ev-batteries-will-outlast-their-vehicles-report/

 

Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/08/01/electric-car-batteries-lasting-longer-than-predicted-delays-recycling-programs/?sh=4960eb1c5332

[300sd]

I'm over it thanks. After 200,000km in my diesel truck I have seen two charging stations in this country. I'm sure there are more. Where does the electricity to charge those cars come from anyway? Coal, natural gas, or wind farms. What a sham!

[Tug]

Its only a hundred and sixteen years since the first powered flight look at us now the battery will evolve to make it more efficient and keep in mind there are lots and lots fewer moving parts in an electric car therefore it should help to keep the price down what a time to be alive!so much innovation!so much promise!so much change!

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

฿550k / $16k USD, for new, and is as cheap as any entry level ICE, so don't really see price as a reason not to own.   Especially if just knocking around town, and putting 10k kms a year on it.  that's 10-20 yrs of life, for these batteries.

 

 

LOL. So you don't see US$ 16k as a disincentive to buy! I guess you are one of those rich guys.

 

Popular ex Japan second hand cars in NZ go for under ten thousand, and often for around $3,000.

 

No way electric cars are going to be snapped up at 16k, as long as cheaper petrol cars are available.

[placeholder]

23 hours ago, Hummin said:

The only problem I see with the green changes, we are continuously pushed to consume more, nd change more often things that should have lasted longer, and could have lasted much  longer to keep the drive on the economy. 

 

They will spew out cars and continue the upgrades as well new regulations to push people harder to spend more on things we really do not need. I'm all in for green energy which do not pollute local air and environment, but this is insane what we see now. The best solutions as better public transport, more regulations on trucks and other vehicles cost to much and doesn't have the same effect on the economy.

Whatever the merits of your claim about being " pushed to consume more, nd change more often things that should have lasted longer, and could have lasted much  longer to keep the drive on the economy.", I don't see why this especially applies to EVs as opposed to ICE vehicles.

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Whatever the merits of your claim about being " pushed to consume more, nd change more often things that should have lasted longer, and could have lasted much  longer to keep the drive on the economy.", I don't see why this especially applies to EVs as opposed to ICE vehicles.

You are right, nothing except it is necessary to be economic beneficial to make new and better technology by government packages and less or no taxation.

 

The price is important to end user

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. So you don't see US$ 16k as a disincentive to buy! I guess you are one of those rich guys.

 

Popular ex Japan second hand cars in NZ go for under ten thousand, and often for around $3,000.

 

No way electric cars are going to be snapped up at 16k, as long as cheaper petrol cars are available.

If you're going to spend $16k for a new car, might as well make it one that cost next to nothing to operate.

 

It killed me to spend that much for the Mazda 2, and Vios s before the EV here.  Especially since better versions sold for less in the USA, and having higher overhead there to make or import.  Only bought new here, because 2nd hand cars are so silly priced here. 

 

Then ฿700k & ฿949k for the ZSs  (ICE & EV) ????  That's crazy, but O&A too much, and don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere.  Why I traded up after 125k-150k kms on the previous cars.   In the USA, not that I ever did, but breaking down in the middle of nowhere, unassisted, is actually hard to do.  Always a dealer or service shop nearby the highways. 

 

Only bought 1 new vehicle in USA, and that was a dependable work truck, emphasis on 'dependable' since self employed.  Most expensive 2nd vehicle I owned over there was $6k USD.   And rarely spent more than $2k for transport.

 

Just not something I cared about.  Get me from point A to B.  Some of the prices of cars here, >1 mill baht is crazy.   It's a machine with 4 wheels.   If not for O&As and visiting the daughter at Krung Thep, I'd simply put a side cart on the scooter ????

[farmerjo]

I'm all for people to move with the EV technology if they want it and can afford it.

For the rest it will be a case of wait till it's set up like a mobile phone plan.

Corporations supply the vehicles.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If you're going to spend $16k for a new car, might as well make it one that cost next to nothing to operate.

That's only true if they don't put a road tax on them. No way they can keep excluding them from paying to use the roads as at present. NZ can expect to see road tax on EVs soon, I hope.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's only true if they don't put a road tax on them. No way they can keep excluding them from paying to use the roads as at present. NZ can expect to see road tax on EVs soon, I hope.

Yearly tax is pretty minor expense compared to petrol & tune ups.   Even without solar, pretty inexpensive to charge up at home here, or even on the road ... for now.

 

If you can save ฿500k over 8 yrs, buying your next car won't be so painful of the wallet.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yearly tax is pretty minor expense compared to petrol & tune ups.   Even without solar, pretty inexpensive to charge up at home here, or even on the road ... for now.

 

If you can save ฿500k over 8 yrs, buying your next car won't be so painful of the wallet.

Like I said, you must be one of those rich guys. Try saving anything on an NZ pension..................LOL.

If I hadn't got savings I'd be destitute, and I don't earn anything for years now.