Thailand spent ฿444bn in the fight against COVID-19 in past three years

[poskat]

9 hours ago, Lucky Bones said:

I ventured the BTS yesterday with no mask.

A thousand people stared at me.

Hansum.

 

I call BS on that. I, and many others, am on the BTS every without a mask and none of the thais blink an eye at it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Basically No! Peer reviewed paper just published for covid (concor I think) and the use of masks (it begs belief that all the previous peer reviewed papers on viruses and the effectiveness of masks were not taken into account by governments).

 

The report you're citing has been widely debunked and cited as flawed by experts in the field.... Listen to actual experts in the field, who continue to recommend N95 type mask respirators  as good protection against COVID:

 

COMMENTARY: Wear a respirator, not a cloth or surgical mask, to protect against respiratory viruses

 

"Two recent publications conclude there are no differences between surgical masks and respirators for preventing person-to-person transmission of infectious respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV-2 and influenza. But these studies are deeply flawed.

...

Both are built on the premise that infectious respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2, MERS-CoV, and influenza are only transmitted person to person by large droplets. This is not true."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/commentary-wear-respirator-not-cloth-or-surgical-mask-protect-against-respiratory-viruses

 

And another takedown of the Cochrane article:

 

Q&A: What a major review does and does not tell us about masks and COVID-19

 

"We asked Linsey C. Marr, PhD, the Charles P. Lunsford Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Virginia Tech University and an expert on airborne virus transmission and mask technology, to share her thoughts on the analysis.

...

"There is no question that a high-quality, well-fitting mask can reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection if worn properly and consistently. We know this from a study in California by the CDC that found that individuals who consistently wore an N95 or KN95 had an 83% lower risk of testing positive for COVID-19 compared with those who didn’t mask."

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20230216/qa-what-a-major-review-does-and-does-not-tell-us-about-masks-and-covid19

 

Both articles above go into much scientific details of why the analysis and conclusions  in the Cochrane article are flawed, particular in regard to N95 respirator type masks.... Read the articles and their analysis for a deeper understanding on the issues involved.

 

[ThailandRyan]

6 hours ago, DjSilver said:

Thailand should've just as  well spent 0 and kept everything open. 

Care to explain in detail? Are you saying that covid was a nothing burger and millions didn't die?

[ThailandRyan]

44 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Basically No! Peer reviewed paper just published for covid (concor I think) and the use of masks (it begs belief that all the previous peer reviewed papers on viruses and the effectiveness of masks were not taken into account by governments).

Link and proof please

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

How easily some folks here seem to forget (or try to ignore) that Thailand has recorded more than 30,000 "official" COVID deaths since the start of the pandemic, and there were periods when the COVID death toll exceeded 200 per day in Thailand.  And those numbers are likely undercounts to the actual toll of COVID here.

 

Needless to say, it would have been much worse if the government hadn't mounted the COVID vaccinations campaign they did, as well as the face masking and social distancing policies.

 

 

 

"The actual death toll from COVID-19 is likely to be higher than the number of confirmed deaths – this is due to limited testing and challenges in the attribution of the cause of death."

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/thailand

 

[anrcaccount]

27 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The report you're citing has been widely debunked and cited as flawed by experts in the field.... Listen to actual experts in the field, who continue to recommend N95 type mask respirators  as good protection against COVID:

 

COMMENTARY: Wear a respirator, not a cloth or surgical mask, to protect against respiratory viruses

 

"Two recent publications conclude there are no differences between surgical masks and respirators for preventing person-to-person transmission of infectious respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV-2 and influenza. But these studies are deeply flawed.

...

Both are built on the premise that infectious respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2, MERS-CoV, and influenza are only transmitted person to person by large droplets. This is not true."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/commentary-wear-respirator-not-cloth-or-surgical-mask-protect-against-respiratory-viruses

 

And another takedown of the Cochrane article:

 

Q&A: What a major review does and does not tell us about masks and COVID-19

 

"We asked Linsey C. Marr, PhD, the Charles P. Lunsford Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Virginia Tech University and an expert on airborne virus transmission and mask technology, to share her thoughts on the analysis.

...

"There is no question that a high-quality, well-fitting mask can reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection if worn properly and consistently. We know this from a study in California by the CDC that found that individuals who consistently wore an N95 or KN95 had an 83% lower risk of testing positive for COVID-19 compared with those who didn’t mask."

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20230216/qa-what-a-major-review-does-and-does-not-tell-us-about-masks-and-covid19

 

Both articles above go into much scientific details of why the analysis and conclusions  in the Cochrane article are flawed, particular in regard to N95 respirator type masks.... Read the articles and their analysis for a deeper understanding on the issues involved.

 

Except almost no one on the BTS or anywhere in Thailand is wearing an N95. So the way masks are worn en masse in Thailand is doing little to nothing to prevent covid infections. That's simply the reality. 

 

The Cochrane review is a comprehensive study of studies, much more authorative in medicine than a selection of "experts" ; 

 

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

 

As I'm sure you're aware, it concludes that there is no clear evidence masking makes any difference to the spread of covid.

 

Now that doesn't mean that an N95 doesn't " work" , but even you may agree - it would be a special kind of hell on earth,  where all people wore them permanently!!!!

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Except almost no one on the BTS or anywhere in Thailand is wearing an N95.

I ride the BTS in central BKK almost daily, and the vast majority of riders I see are following the BTS's policy, and government's recommendation, to still wear face masks while riding the system.

 

The main exception seems to be "some" tourists.

 

And, repeating the flawed conclusions of the Cochrane article doesn't make them any more true...

 

For example:

 

"The review includes 78 randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and clustered-RCTs assessing physical interventions to prevent the spread of respiratory illnesses — all but six of which were conducted before the COVID-19 pandemic. "

 

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20230216/qa-what-a-major-review-does-and-does-not-tell-us-about-masks-and-covid19

 

In layman's terms, they were comparing apples and oranges and pears, and came out with a fruit mush of conclusions.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Except almost no one on the BTS or anywhere in Thailand is wearing an N95. So the way masks are worn en masse in Thailand is doing little to nothing to prevent covid infections. That's simply the reality. 

 

The Cochrane review is a comprehensive study of studies, much more authorative in medicine than a selection of "experts" ; 

 

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

 

As I'm sure you're aware, it concludes that there is no clear evidence masking makes any difference to the spread of covid.

 

Now that doesn't mean that an N95 doesn't " work" , but even you may agree - it would be a special kind of hell on earth,  where all people wore them permanently!!!!

 

 

 

 

You keep on citing the review but you ignore the Authors bottom section that makes what your saying worthless.

 

Agreements and disagreements with other studies or reviews

A recent meta‐analysis included five trials comparing N95/P2 respirators with medical/surgical masks and found no difference between groups for either influenza (RR 1.09, 95% CI 0.92 to 1.28), or respiratory viral infections (RR 0.89, 95% CI 0.70 to 1.11) (Long 2020). By excluding Loeb 2009 (an open, non‐inferiority RCT that compared medical/surgical masks with N95 respirators in protecting HCWs against influenza), the authors reported a significant protective effect against viral infections (RR 0.61, 95% CI 0.39 to 0.98). The authors do not report a rationale for the exclusion in the sensitivity analysis, and do not report on exclusion of the studies with low weighting, which arguably would be more relevant in a sensitivity analysis. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thailand's 444 billion baht figure equates to about $13-$14 billion USD...

 

And so by comparison:

 

The U.S., with a population about 5 times that of Thailand, has spent $4.6 TRILLION through January of this year, and more since then.....

 

"The federal government has provided about $4.6 trillion to help the nation respond to and recover from the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106647

 

And, as just one piece of that...

 

"A new study published in the BMJ has found that the United States invested at least $31.9 billion in public funds directly into the development, production and purchasing of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines...

...

The study is based upon an extensive analysis of US  government research grants and procurement contracts related to mRNA vaccines or technologies issued between 1985 and March 2022."

 

https://healthpolicy-watch.news/u-s-government-invested-31-9-billion-in-mrna-vaccine-research-and-procurement/

 

 

Large numbers always sound large, until you put them into some kind of context.

 

 

 

[anrcaccount]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

30 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Except almost no one on the BTS or anywhere in Thailand is wearing an N95.

I ride the BTS in central BKK almost daily, and the vast majority of riders I see are following the BTS's policy, and government's recommendation, to still wear face masks while riding the system.

That's not what I said - I said N95.

 

Almost no one is wearing them.  Cloth and surgical is what's covering faces. 

 

So I'll say it again, the way masks are being worn en masse in Thailand is doing little to nothing to prevent covid infections. 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

That's not what I said - I said N95.

 

Almost no one is wearing them.  Cloth and surgical is what's covering faces. 

Then I must be "almost no one." Because, in keeping with the guidance of infectious disease experts, N95 masks are the ONLY ones I wear, on BTS and elsewhere, during the entirety of the pandemic.

 

However, the experts in the field also advise that any mask generally is going to be better than wearing none.... which is pretty much common sense.

 

Because masks, especially the best ones, don't only protect the wearer from inhaling the virus... But even the regular masks help prevent people who have COVID from spreading the virus by helping contain outbound respirations when they breath, talk, etc...

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Then I must be "almost no one." Because, in keeping with the guidance of infectious disease experts, N95 masks are the ONLY ones I wear, on BTS and elsewhere.

 

We do the same when in Bangkok and using the MRT or BTS as well as when we are inside crowded locations.  With school graduation upcoming for the GF's Daughter we will be in attendance with all of the other parents and I guarantee there will be a mixture of masks being worn, but I can also say without being wrong that all will be wearing masks.  The Wat school has made it known that masks must be worn for the graduation as it is indoors in the gymnasium.

 

My daughters from the US are arriving at the beginning of April and have asked whether masks will be needed.  I advised them both that I will have masks available for wearing when we are on the mass transit when we are in BKK but then when we travel south to the house and to Krabi and Phuket, we will have them if needed but more than likely will go without wearing them unless in crowded locations.

[mrfill]

3 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

"Of the 444.3 billion baht spent in the past three years addressing COVID outbreaks, 260.2 billion baht (59%) was spent on medical services, which include screening, treatment and vaccinations."

Thoughts:

• what happened with the tiny difference between 444.3 billion and 260.2 billion, or 184.1 billion Baht
• if each and every person in this country got treated free of charge on the expense of the tax payer, it results in THB 6,347, irrespective of gender, age, race or shoesize 
• and, before I forget, does Anutin's private airport on his ranch in Khao Yai have a working instrument landing system in place

 

Last question is, of course, not related to the coronaphobian merry-go-round 8-) 

On your first thought - my first thought was you had not read the linked article as it has more details.

[anrcaccount]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Then I must be "almost no one." Because, in keeping with the guidance of infectious disease experts, N95 masks are the ONLY ones I wear, on BTS and elsewhere, during the entirety of the pandemic.

 

However, the experts in the field also advise that any mask generally is going to be better than wearing none.... which is pretty much common sense.

 

Because masks, especially the best ones, don't only protect the wearer from inhaling the virus... But even the regular masks help prevent people who have COVID from spreading the virus by helping contain outbound respirations when they breath, talk, etc...

 

 

Yes, you are one of a very small number who wear N95s. 

 

For almost everyone else  (yourself excluded as a permanent N95 wearer) the way masks are actually worn in Thailand,  isn't helping reduce the spread of covid. 

 

The Cochrane review of multiple RCTS, found there was no evidence masks were effective at reducing the spread of covid at the population level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

The Cochrane review of multiple RCTS, found there was no evidence masks were effective at reducing the spread of covid at the population level.

 

Except most of the studies they reviewed didn't even involve the current coronavirus behind the current pandemic.  And all the other previously explained details that make their conclusions less than what they appear to be.

 

 

[stoner]

hahah masks 

[Eleftheros]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Care to explain in detail? Are you saying that covid was a nothing burger and millions didn't die?

I think he is pointing out the obvious fact that nothing that Thailand did made any difference to how many people died from Covid, and instead did enormous damage to the Thai economy and the lives of millions of ordinary Thais.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I think he is pointing out the obvious fact that nothing that Thailand did made any difference to how many people died from Covid, and instead did enormous damage to the Thai economy and the lives of millions of ordinary Thais.

Well we can agree to disagree on that one.  Had they not done what they did, the death toll here would have been tremendously more than it was....the world over saw the economies hit hard.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

51 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I think he is pointing out the obvious fact that nothing that Thailand did made any difference to how many people died from Covid, and instead did enormous damage to the Thai economy and the lives of millions of ordinary Thais.

 

And of course, you have absolutely no source or attribution for the claims you're making.

 

In fact, Thailand had a significantly lower per capita COVID death rate than other places such as the U.S. or UK.

 

 

In the chart above of per capita COVID deaths during the first two years of the pandemic, Thailand is the blue line running along the bottom of the chart compared to the mostly higher U.S. and the U.K. death rates. And those same trends continued during the past year as well.

 

The reasons for that, AFAIK, are a matter of interpretation and speculation.

 

Lessons from Asia on COVID-19: What the U.S. Can Learn from Successes Abroad

 

"“European countries, such as the United Kingdom and France, have experienced moderately lower mortality per population than the U.S.,” said Ramnath Subbaraman, assistant professor of public health and community medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. “But what's really remarkable are the extraordinarily low mortality rates experienced by some high-income countries in Asia, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

...

"“If the U.S. experienced a similar rate of mortality per population, eight or nine out of every 10 people we have lost from COVID-19 in the U.S. would still be with us,” he said.  And the gap between America and other countries in terms of COVID mortality is accelerating in the Omicron era."

 

https://now.tufts.edu/2022/06/08/lessons-asia-covid-19-what-us-can-learn-successes-abroad

 

 

[paulikens]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, you have absolutely no source or attribution for the claims you're making.

 

In fact, Thailand had a significantly lower per capita COVID death rate than other places such as the U.S. or UK.

 

 

In the chart above of per capita COVID deaths during the first two years of the pandemic, Thailand is the blue line running along the bottom of the chart compared to the mostly higher U.S. and the U.K. death rates.

 

The reasons for that, AFAIK, are a matter of interpretation and speculation.

 

Lessons from Asia on COVID-19: What the U.S. Can Learn from Successes Abroad

 

"“European countries, such as the United Kingdom and France, have experienced moderately lower mortality per population than the U.S.,” said Ramnath Subbaraman, assistant professor of public health and community medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. “But what's really remarkable are the extraordinarily low mortality rates experienced by some high-income countries in Asia, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

...

"“If the U.S. experienced a similar rate of mortality per population, eight or nine out of every 10 people we have lost from COVID-19 in the U.S. would still be with us,” he said.  And the gap between America and other countries in terms of COVID mortality is accelerating in the Omicron era."

 

https://now.tufts.edu/2022/06/08/lessons-asia-covid-19-what-us-can-learn-successes-abroad

 

 

@TallGuyJohninBKK And you seem to be under the illusion that Thailand gave the real figures and didn't manipulate the official figures they released.   I would probably bet that the real truth is they were one of the worse hit by covid, not one of the best.  

[nigelforbes]

15 minutes ago, paulikens said:

@TallGuyJohninBKK And you seem to be under the illusion that Thailand gave the real figures and didn't manipulate the official figures they released.   I would probably bet that the real truth is they were one of the worse hit by covid, not one of the best.  

Foreigners come to Thailand and expect all numbers on every subject to be manipulated by government, the value of the baht, the number of tourists, the number of covid deaths, dear God, is there no end to it all! Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps some posters are married to or have partners who work in the medical system and news of falsified numbers would seep out? Have you ever stopped to wonder why those of us that use the medical system had no problems during covid, seeing doctors, obtaining medical assistance, getting hospital beds? Is that because the numbers had been manipulated and really the medical system was overwhelmed with cases, or was it because there was in fact very few to begin with! All rhetorical questions of course, just for you to ponder.

[Smokey and the Bandit]

10 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The estimate for UK spending on covid was 400 BILLION POUNDS. Given that Thailand has a similarly sized population, why do you think THB 444 billion BAHT is not possible?

Definitely 'possible'. how much money was wasted?

In the UK, 8.7 billion pounds of PPE was written off, i wonder if the same in Thailand?

 

 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Definitely 'possible'. how much money was wasted?

In the UK, 8.7 billion pounds of PPE was written off, i wonder if the same in Thailand?

 

 

The answer is largely subjective. There seem to be posters in this thread who believe that every baht was wasted, others will think it was all mostly necessary. Whenever you have a government operation on the scale of covid, there's bound to be some wastage, no matter which country you're talking about. Personally, I think most of it was spent with good intent, I'd rather the government spends more in that situation than too little, that really would be criminal.

[MrJ2U]

15 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The estimate for UK spending on covid was 400 BILLION POUNDS. Given that Thailand has a similarly sized population, why do you think THB 444 billion BAHT is not possible?

They bought some Sinovac. 

That's about it. 

 

What makes you think they spent the money responsibly?

 

Obviously you've no clue how things work in Thailand. 

 

 

[Lucky Bones]

10 hours ago, poskat said:

I call BS on that. I, and many others, am on the BTS every without a mask and none of the thais blink an eye at it.

Maybe you not hansum?

[Lucky Bones]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:24 PM, RandiRona said:

I am surprised that they have to spent that much when Mask compliance was more than 100%. So do masks really work??

Masks only work if you believe in them.????????

[redwood1]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And of course, you have absolutely no source or attribution for the claims you're making.

 

In fact, Thailand had a significantly lower per capita COVID death rate than other places such as the U.S. or UK.

 

 

In the chart above of per capita COVID deaths during the first two years of the pandemic, Thailand is the blue line running along the bottom of the chart compared to the mostly higher U.S. and the U.K. death rates. And those same trends continued during the past year as well.

 

The reasons for that, AFAIK, are a matter of interpretation and speculation.

 

Lessons from Asia on COVID-19: What the U.S. Can Learn from Successes Abroad

 

"“European countries, such as the United Kingdom and France, have experienced moderately lower mortality per population than the U.S.,” said Ramnath Subbaraman, assistant professor of public health and community medicine at Tufts University School of Medicine. “But what's really remarkable are the extraordinarily low mortality rates experienced by some high-income countries in Asia, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

...

"“If the U.S. experienced a similar rate of mortality per population, eight or nine out of every 10 people we have lost from COVID-19 in the U.S. would still be with us,” he said.  And the gap between America and other countries in terms of COVID mortality is accelerating in the Omicron era."

 

https://now.tufts.edu/2022/06/08/lessons-asia-covid-19-what-us-can-learn-successes-abroad

 

 

Some people think its just all one big conspiracy....

[nigelforbes]

3 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

They bought some Sinovac. 

That's about it. 

 

What makes you think they spent the money responsibly?

 

Obviously you've no clue how things work in Thailand. 

 

 

....and Pfizer, and Moderna, I received them both for free. And, 

 

"The social security system will pay unemployed workers up to 50% of their wages for up to six months. For labourers and workers who are not covered by social security, 45 billion baht has been earmarked for cash handouts"

 

.The state-owned Government Savings Bank has allocated up to 30 billion baht to provide low interest loans for individuals.

 

"The Government Savings Bank will also loan a total of 150 billion baht to various financial institutions at an interest rate of 0.01% per annum. These institutions will then provide businesses with low-interest loans – 2% on the first 20 million baht, for the first two years".     and

 

"the Social Security Office and financial institutions will offer low-interest loans to employers who are registered with the Social Security Office and have contributed to the Social Security Fund for at least three months. These loans can total up to 30 million baht and will have an interest rate starting at 3% per annum. Upon receiving the loan, employers must retain insured employees for at least three years".

 

And, plus plus plus

 

 https://www.grantthornton.co.th/insights/articles/thai-governments-economic-response-to-covid-19/ 

 

[keysersoze276]

Lol. How much of that money was donated, along with vaccines masks, etc from USA and other countries?  Even China made vaccine donations (which are a complete failure).   Happily accepted for free and sold to the public for profit.