Warning, Keto, low carb

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Nothing wrong with whole food plant based complex carbs.

 

Lots of people with diabetes both type 1 and 2 for example do really well on that type of diet...

 

I am one of them - but I am only one person lots and lots of documentation out there...

Low carb, even keto, can be plant based, though they commonly aren't, as there's no real reason for them to be.

 

Low carb did "whole foods" long before whole foods diets did whole foods. Whole foods were central to low carb diets from their inception. Mandated in Atkins, in fact.

 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Low carb, even keto, can be plant based, though they commonly aren't, as there's no real reason for them to be.

 

Low carb did "whole foods" long before whole foods diets did whole foods. Whole foods were central to low carb diets from their inception. Mandated in Atkins, in fact.

 

Other than the warnings in every single govt and credible medical website that red meat over 360 grams a week causes cancer, no.

 

I did see a YT'er claim that plant based protein lacks essential amino acids. There's conflicting info on which is better.

[TravelerEastWest]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Other than the warnings in every single govt and credible medical website that red meat over 360 grams a week causes cancer, no.

 

I did see a YT'er claim that plant based protein lacks essential amino acids. There's conflicting info on which is better.

I think that carcinogens are ranked in groups - processed meats are in the worst group and are known to cause cancer - red meat is considered probable.

 

Plants normally have all the amino acids (some like soy have all amino acids) but some might be in lesser amounts - but over the course of the day with a varied diet all will be well.

[TravelerEastWest]

8 hours ago, BigStar said:

Low carb, even keto, can be plant based, though they commonly aren't, as there's no real reason for them to be.

 

Low carb did "whole foods" long before whole foods diets did whole foods. Whole foods were central to low carb diets from their inception. Mandated in Atkins, in fact.

 

I could be wrong but many gastrointestinal doctors feel that the fiber from whole plants is very, very important to good long term health. Perhaps the key concept is long term?

 

All causes of mortality tend to go up when you don't eat a whole food plant based diet. You can easily do the research if you are interested.

 

I don't think there are any well done long term research projects showing that a meat based Keto diet is good for you? The low carb meat based diets tend to have people lose weight and sometimes give up junk food - both are good but people tend to mixup these good effects with something else...

 

Anyway the world is currently based on eating lots of meat and that will not quickly change - so maybe the best next step is getting rid of junk food to start?

[jaywalker2]

Look at this guy, 109 and has never watched what he eats:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/man-109-still-drives-car-203838450.html

 

"The centenarian likes Italian food, hamburgers, salad, milk chocolate and other sweets. He drinks a cup of coffee every day and occasionally drinks beer, but doesn’t enjoy other forms of alcohol.

“What’s crazy is he was not careful about his diet,” Lista says.

“He has eaten whatever he wants. He has never watched his weight. He’s never had to lose weight. He’s always been fit.”

[FolkGuitar]

Can the folks who say that the Keto diet is not healthy please tell us how the natives of the far frozen north (Eskimos, Inuit, Laplander, etc.) manage to survive thousands of year of not eating vegetables or other carbs?  Just eating protein and fats? Somehow, the indigenous people managed to stay alive long enough for modern stores and trading posts to bring them Twinkies.

 

Now 76, I've been following the Keto lifestyle for the past 4 years. I get a health check at Rajavej every year. Everything is in the normal range except Cholesterol levels, and with the new, peer-reviewed studies being done proving the old thinking incorrect, the doctor is not worried about that number.

 

I began it to lose weight. It took about a year to go from a size 46" waist back down to a size 33". I was tired of having my belly enter a room two minutes before the rest of me.

I continued Keto because my entire body feels better when living this way. Most of those little niggling aches and pains of old age (you know the ones... knees creaking, hips sore, back stiff, etc., Pick yours.) are GONE as long as I follow Keto. As I said, I began it to lose weight, but I continue it because it makes my body feel better.

 

The only food I feel that I am giving up is Pepperidge Farm Mint Milano cookies or french fries. So every few months I break the diet and eat them. Then I start up again.  I eat meat, vegetables, and dessert with every dinner. I just have to choose my veggies a bit more carefully. Last night we made Cantonese Shrimp with Lobster Sauce for dinner. The night before that we had Pizza. Tonight I'll probably cook Mexican Fajitas or Tacos.  We really don't have to 'suffer' when following Keto, just be a bit creative.  When I eat in a restaurant, I don't eat the rice.  It's not hard.

Edited April 20, 2023 by FolkGuitar

[Phulublub]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:02 PM, ozimoron said:

The real problem is industry itself lobbying politicians with donations to not crack down on their crap food cash cows. Look at what happens to suggestions to implement a sugar tax.

In a nutshell

 

PH

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I could be wrong but many gastrointestinal doctors feel that the fiber from whole plants is very, very important to good long term health.

And as noted low carb diets have always mandated whole foods, specifically including veggies as one of the whole foods. It appears you don't really know anything about low carb (very few here do), yet typically want to express uninformed opinions or implications about it. Go read the primary sources themselves, as I have.

 

So that's about it, my point made; believe as you wish, based on uninformed or biased popular opinion. I'm already involved in a tiresome little bickerfest with a naive agenda-driven member over in the IT forum and that's enough for now.

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can the folks who say that the Keto diet is not healthy please tell us how the natives of the far frozen north (Eskimos, Inuit, Laplander, etc.) manage to survive thousands of year of not eating vegetables or other carbs?  Just eating protein and fats? Somehow, the indigenous people managed to stay alive long enough for modern stores and trading posts to bring them Twinkies.

 

Now 76, I've been following the Keto lifestyle for the past 4 years. I get a health check at Rajavej every year. Everything is in the normal range except Cholesterol levels, and with the new, peer-reviewed studies being done proving the old thinking incorrect, the doctor is not worried about that number.

 

I began it to lose weight. It took about a year to go from a size 46" waist back down to a size 33". I was tired of having my belly enter a room two minutes before the rest of me.

I continued Keto because my entire body feels better when living this way. Most of those little niggling aches and pains of old age (you know the ones... knees creaking, hips sore, back stiff, etc., Pick yours.) are GONE as long as I follow Keto. As I said, I began it to lose weight, but I continue it because it makes my body feel better.

 

The only food I feel that I am giving up is Pepperidge Farm Mint Milano cookies or french fries. So every few months I break the diet and eat them. Then I start up again.  I eat meat, vegetables, and dessert with every dinner. I just have to choose my veggies a bit more carefully. Last night we made Cantonese Shrimp with Lobster Sauce for dinner. The night before that we had Pizza. Tonight I'll probably cook Mexican Fajitas or Tacos.  We really don't have to 'suffer' when following Keto, just be a bit creative.  When I eat in a restaurant, I don't eat the rice.  It's not hard.

There is s myth Eskimo diet is more healthy than a typical western diet. You might feel better because you live more diciplined when following a specific diet as a result.

 

The traditional Inuit diet does include some berries, seaweed and plants, but a carnivorous diet can supply all the essential nutrients, provided you eat the whole animal, and eat it raw. Whale skin and seal brain both contain vitamin C, for example. But an Inuit diet isn't any healthier than a modern Western diet

 

But an Inuit diet isn’t any healthier than a modern Western diet. Inuits have similar levels of coronary heart disease and a somewhat higher incidence of osteoporosis and stroke, since they get a higher proportion of their calories from animal fat and have limited access to dietary calcium

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/how-do-inuits-get-their-five-a-day/amp/

Edited April 20, 2023 by Hummin

[TravelerEastWest]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can the folks who say that the Keto diet is not healthy please tell us how the natives of the far frozen north (Eskimos, Inuit, Laplander, etc.) manage to survive thousands of year of not eating vegetables or other carbs?  Just eating protein and fats? Somehow, the indigenous people managed to stay alive long enough for modern stores and trading posts to bring them Twinkies.

 

Now 76, I've been following the Keto lifestyle for the past 4 years. I get a health check at Rajavej every year. Everything is in the normal range except Cholesterol levels, and with the new, peer-reviewed studies being done proving the old thinking incorrect, the doctor is not worried about that number.

 

 

 

 Sounds like they are not doing that well Intuits live shorter lives historically than other Canadians.

 

Also it sounds like losing weight is helping you good news! But Keto is not the only way to lose weight lots of people eat a whole food plant based diet and lose weight and cure diseases. 

 

The old thinking has not been proved incorrect - about cholesterol most heart doctors would say be very concerned about cholesterol...

 

But if you love meat and it is working for you now it my be that is your path - good luck with your health.

[TravelerEastWest]

13 minutes ago, BigStar said:

And as noted low carb diets have always mandated whole foods, specifically including veggies as one of the whole foods. It appears you don't really know anything about low carb (very few here do), yet typically want to express uninformed opinions or implications about it. Go read the primary sources themselves, as I have.

 

So that's about it, my point made; believe as you wish, based on uninformed or biased popular opinion. I'm already involved in a tiresome little bickerfest with a naive agenda-driven member over in the IT forum and that's enough for now.

Actually it appears that you don't know much about the big picture of long term health but I wish you well as you seem sincere in your beliefs.

 

My thoughts are based on science and real life experience. But I rarely read actual studies as I have a weak background in statistics and unless you are in the field and very strong in statistics you simply are not qualified to read original research papers critically.

[Hummin]

Worth reading as well, and understand we who are not Inuits, might need a different diet

 

 

For evolutionary biologists, the best experiments are those already going on in nature. The different conditions in which humans have lived for tens of thousands of years have made us adapt and change. Now a new study published in Science shows that such adaptation has led to genetic mutations in Greenlandic Inuits that help them counteract the bad effects of their high-fat diet, based heavily on fish and marine mammals

 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/research/high-fat-diet-made-inuits-healthier-shorter-thanks-gene-mutations-study-finds

 

[rumak]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:20 PM, connda said:

This rather dumbed-down global society have now embraced 'experts' and have turned off their own minds which could easily be used to research a topic, like the Pros And Cons, of eating red meat, draw your own conclusions, and then act accordingly.

Instead nowadays.  "An Expert Told Me."  As my Mom would have said years ago in my youth, "If an expert told you to jump off of a cliff would you do it?"  What I find distressing is the fact that most people no longer care to think, read, and research. And even those who chose a technical skill and are highly skilled no longer have a broad educational background.  They are focused on what they are good at and as dumb as a sock full of rocks regarding most everything else. They just believe what they are told in the echo-chamber of their choice.

That is exactly true (not that it will change anybodys mind on this forum) .  

Another major factor in the stupidity of the Google quoters is that they do not know... and of course do not want to know  that Google is part of the whole propaganda group ( blackrock, microsoft, mainstreet media)  that control just about everything.   When one "googles"  to find information....they are given a few pages from "selected"  sources .  

I only wrote this for the very few people here who already know it   ????

[rumak]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can the folks who say that the Keto diet is not healthy please tell us how the natives of the far frozen north (Eskimos, Inuit, Laplander, etc.) manage to survive thousands of year of not eating vegetables or other carbs?  Just eating protein and fats? Somehow, the indigenous people managed to stay alive long enough for modern stores and trading posts to bring them Twinkies.

 

Now 76, I've been following the Keto lifestyle for the past 4 years. I get a health check at Rajavej every year. Everything is in the normal range except Cholesterol levels, and with the new, peer-reviewed studies being done proving the old thinking incorrect, the doctor is not worried about that number.

 

I began it to lose weight. It took about a year to go from a size 46" waist back down to a size 33". I was tired of having my belly enter a room two minutes before the rest of me.

I continued Keto because my entire body feels better when living this way. Most of those little niggling aches and pains of old age (you know the ones... knees creaking, hips sore, back stiff, etc., Pick yours.) are GONE as long as I follow Keto. As I said, I began it to lose weight, but I continue it because it makes my body feel better.

 

The only food I feel that I am giving up is Pepperidge Farm Mint Milano cookies or french fries. So every few months I break the diet and eat them. Then I start up again.  I eat meat, vegetables, and dessert with every dinner. I just have to choose my veggies a bit more carefully. Last night we made Cantonese Shrimp with Lobster Sauce for dinner. The night before that we had Pizza. Tonight I'll probably cook Mexican Fajitas or Tacos.  We really don't have to 'suffer' when following Keto, just be a bit creative.  When I eat in a restaurant, I don't eat the rice.  It's not hard.

A few years ago I posted here about the doctors ( only a very few) who contradicted the traditional thinking about cholesterol.   My blood screening was nearly perfect .... except for the "dangerously high"  cholesterol.    Now even the usual google first page health experts are changing their tune ( a bit ) .     There are now many videos that can be found from other "experts"  who present a very different picture about cholesterol and heart disease.   I believe the studies that show that my high levels will probably insure I live longer than those with lower levels.    BTW:  my blood pressure is consistently around 100/ 65  .    Resting pulse 60 !       My age : over 70

Note:  there are factors and tests that can help evaluate the condition of ones heart.  Try to find out the possibilities..... before blindly seeing an "expert"   who might not have to up to date facts

Edited April 20, 2023 by rumak

[Hummin]

51 minutes ago, rumak said:

That is exactly true (not that it will change anybodys mind on this forum) .  

Another major factor in the stupidity of the Google quoters is that they do not know... and of course do not want to know  that Google is part of the whole propaganda group ( blackrock, microsoft, mainstreet media)  that control just about everything.   When one "googles"  to find information....they are given a few pages from "selected"  sources .  

I only wrote this for the very few people here who already know it   ????

Another problem, is those who think they cracked the matrix, and are smarter than everyone else.

 

Google is a easy great tool for knownledge if you take your time and willing to read and make different searches based on different channels. Science research as well theory is a good thing to wrapp your head around if interested. Where else you find your truth ? If you can not trust google, where is the truth? 

[rumak]

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Another problem, is those who think they cracked the matrix, and are smarter than everyone else.

 

Google is a easy great tool for knownledge if you take your time and willing to read and make different searches based on different channels. Science research as well theory is a good thing to wrapp your head around if interested. Where else you find your truth ? If you can not trust google, where is the truth? 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, rumak said:

Yes better to trow the smartphone away, and never connect to the web again. We where much smarter before social media and google

[ozimoron]

7 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I think that carcinogens are ranked in groups - processed meats are in the worst group and are known to cause cancer - red meat is considered probable.

 

Plants normally have all the amino acids (some like soy have all amino acids) but some might be in lesser amounts - but over the course of the day with a varied diet all will be well.

The websites claim that over 360 grams per week is dangerous. I find it ridiculous to suggest that over 360 grams in a problem but under that is perfectly safe.

 

Thanks for the heads up about plant proteins and amino acids.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Actually it appears that you don't know much about the big picture of long term health but I wish you well as you seem sincere in your beliefs.

 

My thoughts are based on science and real life experience. But I rarely read actual studies as I have a weak background in statistics and unless you are in the field and very strong in statistics you simply are not qualified to read original research papers critically.

All scientific papers have conclusions which lay people can read.

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

 

 

Anyway the world is currently based on eating lots of meat and that will not quickly change - so maybe the best next step is getting rid of junk food to start?

Yes giving up junk food or minimising it is an easy win for everyone but most lack discipline to do it 

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can the folks who say that the Keto diet is not healthy please tell us how the natives of the far frozen north (Eskimos, Inuit, Laplander, etc.) manage to survive thousands of year of not eating vegetables or other carbs?  Just eating protein and fats? Somehow, the indigenous people managed to stay alive long enough for modern stores and trading posts to bring them Twinkies.

 

This is a good video for you to show how deadly the Eskimo diet is. Only 13 minutes.

 

https://youtu.be/Z6N8CJ_Wy9c

 

[bignok]

9 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

I think that carcinogens are ranked in groups - processed meats are in the worst group and are known to cause cancer - red meat is considered probable.

 

Plants normally have all the amino acids (some like soy have all amino acids) but some might be in lesser amounts - but over the course of the day with a varied diet all will be well.

Not only does the egg contain 18 of the 20 amino acids, it contains all of the 10 essential amino acids in abundance. It has the best amino acid profile known — better than meat, milk and soy products. One large 50-gram egg provides nearly seven grams of highly digestible protein.

https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/education/detail/egg-nutritional-facts#:~:text=Not only does the egg,grams of highly digestible protein.

 

 

 

[bignok]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is a good video for you to show how deadly the Eskimo diet is. Only 13 minutes.

 

https://youtu.be/Z6N8CJ_Wy9c

 

Do they eat whales?

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, bignok said:

Do they eat whales?

watch the video and find out

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

watch the video and find out

McDougall's diet plan has been called a low-fat fad diet that may lead to flatulence, possibly poor mineral absorption from excess fiber and limited food choices that sometimes may lead to nutrient deprivation.[2] The diet places patients at risk of being deprived of zinc, vitamin D, calcium, iron, omega-3 fatty acids, and vitamin B12 when followed strictly.

 

wiki

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

McDougall's diet plan has been called a low-fat fad diet that may lead to flatulence, possibly poor mineral absorption from excess fiber and limited food choices that sometimes may lead to nutrient deprivation.[2] The diet places patients at risk of being deprived of zinc, vitamin D, calcium, iron, omega-3 fatty acids, and vitamin B12 when followed strictly.

 

wiki

I do recall that the "Atkins diet" was all the rage a few years back, and although I didn't go on it myself, a friend did and when I enquired as to how it was going, he said he had lost weight but was fed up with eating so much meat, a lot of it??

 

How different is that to modern day diets, and especially the one that is being discussed here?
 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

I do recall that the "Atkins diet" was all the rage a few years back, and although I didn't go on it myself, a friend did and when I enquired as to how it was going, he said he had lost weight but was fed up with eating so much meat, a lot of it??

 

How different is that to modern day diets, and especially the one that is being discussed here?
 

Most modern day recommendations from health authorities and credible institutions in developed countries recommend a Mediterranean diet which is why I try to follow it as much as possible.

[indyo]

34 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

This is a good video for you to show how deadly the Eskimo diet is. Only 13 minutes.

 

https://youtu.be/Z6N8CJ_Wy9c

 

agree, Eskimo lifespan is around 60 years, no way their food is healthy.

[scubascuba3]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

McDougall's diet plan has been called a low-fat fad diet that may lead to flatulence, possibly poor mineral absorption from excess fiber and limited food choices that sometimes may lead to nutrient deprivation.[2] The diet places patients at risk of being deprived of zinc, vitamin D, calcium, iron, omega-3 fatty acids, and vitamin B12 when followed strictly.

 

wiki

Sounds rubbish, he is a vegan that does low fat, that Wiki is probably written by one of those carb phobics

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Sounds rubbish, he is a vegan that does low fat, that Wiki is probably written by one of those carb phobics

Go ahead and rewrite it. Nobody's stopping you. Just make sure you quote your research.