Limitations on renewal of 90 day tourist visas obtained in a neighboring country

[john1201]

Hello all, first post here. American citizen, I studied Thai on an ED visa from February 2022 until January this year, then had to go to Vientiane to get a 90 day tourist visa (the regular one, 60 days plus 30 day renewal). It is expiring shortly and I had planned on just making a second visa run to Vientiane to get another regular 90 day in 10 days.... but today a Chinese acquaintance told me that her understanding was that foreign nationals can only get a single such visa in any given calendar year, no renewal like I was contemplating was posisble.... and I was of course surprised to learn that. Is this true? Or does it only apply to Chinese citizens? She was not really certain about that, but she had been told that by a Chinese visa office here in Bangkok before she got her 90 day tourist visa in Malaysia. TIA for any help with this.

[at15]

You might be able to get one, but also risk a red stamp of death along with it saying your a frequent visitor. After that stamp its pretty much impossible to get another visa and a high chance you will be questioned entering Thailand.

[BritTim]

The limitations on applying for multiple tourist visas at embassies/consulates in neighbouring countries are opaque and complex. They vary according to where you apply, as well as your nationality. As a general rule, the limitations have been getting stricter over a number of years. I cannot guarantee that everything I write below is still accurate. It reflects my best understanding.

 

Depending on the embassy/consulate where you apply, there can be limits such as the following:

1. (The least strict) A limit on the total number of tourist visas from only that specific embassy/consulate visible in your current passport. That is, usually, the consulate cannot easily check applications that you made prior to getting your latest passport, so those will not be taken into account.
2. A limit on the total number of tourist visas visible in your passport that were issued anywhere.
3. A refusal to issue you a tourist visa if you have spent more than a specific number of days as a tourist in Thailand over the last 12 months.
4. A refusal to issue you a tourist visa if you have a stamp from another embassy/consulate to the effect that "you travel frequently to Thailand as a tourist" (explained below) and/or a visa sticker that is marked cancelled together with a stamp that it has been cancelled because you are a tourist too much.
5. (The strictest) Not issuing you a tourist visa if you have just departed from Thailand.

At some consulates, they have a nasty habit of stamping your passport with a warning to other consulates that they consider you someone who is abusing the tourist visa system. You really, really want to avoid this kind of stamp. Unless your current passport is very clean (as far as time in Thailand as a tourist is concerned) try to be aware of consulates that are liable to do this to you, and avoid them. Once you have a stamp like this, you will find it very difficult to get further tourist visas until you replace your passport.

 

In Vientiane, historically, American citizens have been allowed two tourist visas from Vientiane (as visible in their current passport). An attempt for a third is liable to be rejected, and may result in the dreaded stamp. Tourist visas issued elsewhere are OK.

 

Savannakhet seems to allow at least two tourist visas issued at that consulate (issued elsewhere ignored) to American citizens.

 

Historically, Yangon has been a good place to apply, probably also safe for two tourist visas from that embassy.

 

Until recently, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City have been good places to apply, but recent reports suggest they have become strict and probably bad places to use.

 

Penang is very busy, but appears to allow at least one tourist visa from there.

 

The situation in Kuala Lumpur is very changeable.

 

Kota Bharu used to be a reasonable place to use (albeit, inconvenient to travel to) but I have seen zero reports from there post Covid.

 

Singapore has long been very strict, with applications often rejected but (as I recall) without use of the dreaded stamp.

 

Jakarta and Bali are awful places to apply, though theoretically they do issue tourist visas.

 

Phnom Penh liberally uses the stamp any time they deny an application. They will typically issue a tourist visa if you only have one other tourist visa in your passport (from anywhere) but are liable to deny your application otherwise. It is probably prudent to use a good agent if applying there who can abort an application if he knows it will be rejected.

 

This is the best I can do. Hopefully others will provide corrections based on recent first hand information.

Edited April 9, 2023 by BritTim

[DrJack54]

OP, you have available 2 visa exempt entries via land borders available.

You can apply for a tourist visa at eg Savannakhet.

If rejected you can still enter at border crossing visa exempt and be given 30 day stamp. 

You can then obtain a 30 day extension.

 

Given your history your options are closing.

How long do you hope to remain in Thailand? 

That question is about options.

Clearly you are not 50+ as non O has not been mentioned. 

[john1201]

Thank you so much for the prompt and helpful replies.

 

To answer the question about age, I am 65 years old. I am trying to amass the funds needed for a longer term deal but still short of the amount needed to transition to another category of visa.

 

I obviously have to avoid getting a red stamp, so I am thinking I should change my plan to go to Vientiane and go to Savannkhet instead.

 

One additional question: If I do get a red stamp indicating too frequent trips to Thailand as a tourist, does this mean I will be unable to transition to any other kind of visa (work visa, retirement visa, etc.) down the road? And does it also mean that I will not be able to get a standard 30 day tourist visa on arrival as well? In other words I will be essentially banned from entry entirely, with zero options? If the latter, how long until I would be able to re-enter Thailand? Would it be next calendar year, or indefinitely?

 

TIA once again for the responses.

Edited April 9, 2023 by john1201
typos

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, john1201 said:

One additional question: If I do get a red stamp indicating too frequent trips to Thailand as a tourist, does this mean I will be unable to transition to any other kind of visa (work visa, retirement visa, etc.) down the road

The red stamp is just a VOID stamped on the sticker they place in your pp.

It does not stop entry into the country visa exempt. 

 

You stated....

"To answer the question about age, I am 65 years old. I am trying to amass the funds needed for a longer term deal but still short of the amount needed to transition to another category of visa."...

 

At 65 without funds to obtain a non O and subsequent extension then living in Thailand will be a tough gig.

 

In your shoes I would ditch the idea of tourist visas etc.

Enter Thailand visa exempt and use agent to obtain non O retirement and extension.

Approx 30k or less. 

Ongoing extensions 15k.

 

First step is to have a Thai bank account in your name only. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by DrJack54

[john1201]

Thanks again. Just to be clear, are you advising me not to bother with getting another 60 day visa in Vientiane and to instead just re-enter Thailand with the usual 30 day visa on arrival under the exemption system, and then to get an agent to help me transition to a non O immigrant visa in the next 30 days or so on that 30-day visa?

Last year I spoke to a couple of agents and they offered to get me on the non O immigrant visa path for a fee.... pay them the fee, their companies would deposit the roughly $15,000 needed for that path to a bank account and I would receive that visa,  and then the company would retrieve its $15,000. And then I checked the Internet and found that there were a lot of instances where others had been promised a similar wonderful deal, but the problem was that even when the company in question did get keep its initial promise to put a person like me on the path to a longer term deal, the $15,000 was supposed to be a minimum balance left in a Thai bank... it could not be just withdrawn after the visa was obtained, it had to stay there, and if the Thai authorities saw that it had been withdrawn, I would face an unpleasant outcome and the agent who had supposedly helped me would not be interested in doing anything further to help at that point.

I am also a neophyte here so I do not understand the mechanics at all. I need a bank account in Thailand. I tried to do that with a letter from my language school last year.... and the bank told me no, go to the US Embassy, get some kind of letter there... and I did not get that done, no. But the bigger picture here is that to pursue this non O immigrant visa route, I first need a Thai bank account IN MY NAME ONLY, and then for a fee the agent will be able to deposit the roughly $15,000 for the 5-year deal into it, and then once I am on that track the agent company withdraws those funds.... and I assume that it is then up to me to supplement the $15,000 within a decent interval or.... well, I can imagine.

Sorry about the long meandering message, with the two parts being: 1) Can I really trust an agent to help me for a fee of 30,000 baht or so, without that "deal" just ending when the Immigration authorities see that my bank balance is closer to 0 than it is to $15,000? and 2) Without a Thai bank account in my name (it cannot be a joint account with my Thai girlfriend, for example, and it cannot be a US bank account), it will not be possible to pursue this non O immigrant visa option?

Sorry to be long-winded, just trying nail down my options here, I greatly appreciate the help.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by john1201
typos

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, john1201 said:

One additional question: If I do get a red stamp indicating too frequent trips to Thailand as a tourist, does this mean I will be unable to transition to any other kind of visa (work visa, retirement visa, etc.) down the road? And does it also mean that I will not be able to get a standard 30 day tourist visa on arrival as well? In other words I will be essentially banned from entry entirely, with zero options? If the latter, how long until I would be able to re-enter Thailand? Would it be next calendar year, or indefinitely?

The red stamp does not affect your ability to get visas with the exception of tourist visas. It does not affect your ability to get a visa exempt entry at most land crossings. It most certainly does affect your prospects of visa exemptions at airports. If you do end up with the dreaded stamp, aim to replace your existing passport as soon as possible. The problem is visible in your current passport, but not evident in the various immigration and consular computer systems. A replacement passport will be a complete fix (but stay away from the consulate that gave it to you: they might recognise you if you go there again).

 

Although not an ideal solution, be aware that agents can assist you in getting retirement visas/extensions without the official financial qualifications. You will receive different opinions on whether this approach involves significant risk, as well as whether it is a moral approach.

[Lemsta69]

Where are you getting your target of $15k from mate? In-country retirement visa and subsequent extension(s) require ฿‎800,000 in the bank. At current exchange rate (BBL TT buy rate 33.94) that's approx. $23.6k not $15k.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, john1201 said:

Thanks again. Just to be clear, are you advising me not to bother with getting another 60 day visa in Vientiane and to instead just re-enter Thailand with the usual 30 day visa on arrival under the exemption system, and then to get an agent to help me transition to a non O immigrant visa in the next 30 days or so on that 30-day visa?

Last year I spoke to a couple of agents and they offered to get me on the non O immigrant visa path for a fee.... pay them the fee, their companies would deposit the roughly $15,000 needed for that path to a bank account and I would receive that visa,  and then the company would retrieve its $15,000. And then I checked the Internet and found that there were a lot of instances where others had been promised a similar wonderful deal, but the problem was that even when the company in question did get keep its initial promise to put a person like me on the path to a longer term deal, the $15,000 was supposed to be a minimum balance left in a Thai bank... it could not be just withdrawn after the visa was obtained, it had to stay there, and if the Thai authorities saw that it had been withdrawn, I would face an unpleasant outcome and the agent who had supposedly helped me would not be interested in doing anything further to help at that point.

I am also a neophyte here so I do not understand the mechanics at all. I need a bank account in Thailand. I tried to do that with a letter from my language school last year.... and the bank told me no, go to the US Embassy, get some kind of letter there... and I did not get that done, no. But the bigger picture here is that to pursue this non O immigrant visa route, I first need a Thai bank account IN MY NAME ONLY, and then for a fee the agent will be able to deposit the roughly $15,000 for the 5-year deal into it, and then once I am on that track the agent company withdraws those funds.... and I assume that it is then up to me to supplement the $15,000 within a decent interval or.... well, I can imagine.

Sorry about the long meandering message, with the two parts being: 1) Can I really trust an agent to help me for a fee of 30,000 baht or so, without that "deal" just ending when the Immigration authorities see that my bank balance is closer to 0 than it is to $15,000? and 2) Without a Thai bank account in my name (it cannot be a joint account with my Thai girlfriend, for example, and it cannot be a US bank account), it will not be possible to pursue this non O immigrant visa option?

Sorry to be long-winded, just trying nail down my options here, I greatly appreciate the help.

 

Stop being silly.

You can enter Thailand visa exempt and have agent obtain non O retirement and subsequent extension I outlined already.

 

Is this a serious thread?

My post was clear.

It's an option. 

 

BTW It's not $15k USD.

It's 15k BAHT. Approx $450 USD 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by DrJack54

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

Where are you getting your target of $15k from mate? In-country retirement visa and subsequent extension(s) require ฿‎800,000 in the bank. At current exchange rate (BBL TT buy rate 33.94) that's approx. $23.6k not $15k.

This.

 

And if, by age 65, you are hard put to come up with 25 large in order to qualify for a retirement visa, then perhaps you have more to worry about than bouncing around Thailand.  Other places have easier rules- Philippines for example, where you can stay longer without proving your financial health. 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

And if, by age 65, you are hard put to come up with 25 large in order to qualify for a retirement visa, then perhaps you have more to worry about than bouncing around Thailand

Exactly.

In the past, so many boring threads of folk posting that they live in Thailand on 25k baht/month.

The OP seems that would be a stretch. 

 

[underthesky]

Is a tourist visa with a red stamp on it still valid for entry?

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, underthesky said:

Is a tourist visa with a red stamp on it still valid for entry?

No.

The stamp states "VOID" 

[Daithi85]

8 hours ago, underthesky said:

Is a tourist visa with a red stamp on it still valid for entry?

Yes you can still enter.

Its a warning stamp which makes getting another tourist visa very difficult.

But your visa with the stamp is still valid.

 

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Daithi85 said:

Yes you can still enter.

Its a warning stamp which makes getting another tourist visa very difficult.

But your visa with the stamp is still valid.

 

Not it's not.

The sticker is placed in the passport and a stamp stating VOID is placed on the sticker.

The visa application has been rejected. 

 

Would not stop you entering visa exempt. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by DrJack54

[Daithi85]

19 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not it's not.

The sticker is placed in the passport and a stamp stating VOID is placed on the sticker.

The visa application has been rejected. 

 

Would not stop you entering visa exempt. 

 

 

Good morning.

If you read through the comments their talking about the warning stamp that states that the user of the passport has been in Thailand many times and may face refusal in the future.

 

 

 

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Not it's not.

The sticker is placed in the passport and a stamp stating VOID is placed on the sticker.

The visa application has been rejected. 

 

Would not stop you entering visa exempt. 

The "warning stamp" and the "void stamp" are two different things. The former doesn't render the visa unusable, it just makes it virtually impossible to get another tourist visa anywhere nearby. So it pretty much signals, this was your last one.

[DrJack54]

24 minutes ago, Caldera said:

The "warning stamp" and the "void stamp" are two different things. The former doesn't render the visa unusable, it just makes it virtually impossible to get another tourist visa anywhere nearby. So it pretty much signals, this was your last one.

The OP specifically asked about applying for a single entry tourist visa.

If he makes an application one of two things will happen.

Approved or refused.

If refused he will have visa issued along with a VOID stamp.

 

Note for others, that does not he cannot enter Thailand.

In 2019 a thread started by UK guy who had continuous stay in Thailand as per the OP,......

He received a visa with Void stamp from Saigon consulate.

 

Ended up flying into CNX visa exempt without issue. 

[john1201]

Just to clean up my post from yesterday. I have read online that the first step on the ladder of getting a 20 year retirement visa is a 5 year visa (Elite Retirement Visa), and the cost of that is approximately $15,000 (USD) at current exchange rates (I see that the figure is now actually around 600,000 baht, or a bit over $17,000 (USD) at current exchange rates). Then you have several years during which to increase the amount in your bank account to the roughly $30,000 balance required for the 20 year deal.

I have various income streams and can assemble the $15,000 within the next 6-9 months without issue. The problem is getting to that point.

Once again, last year I spoke to a couple of agents in Bangkok who told me that for a fee (it was around 40,000 baht if I remember correctly) they could get me on this path by 1) depositing the necessary funds in a bank account in my name, 2) getting the Immigration Bureau to issue the 5 year visa, and 3) then removing the funds that had been deposited in that same bank account. The problem with this approach is apparently that the Thai authorities check the bank account balances every 3 months or so to see if the minimum balance of $15,000 has been maintained.... and if it has not, that is the end of the deal, they will revoke the visa obtained by this means.

I understand that all of this is in flux these days and a lot has changed in the last 2-3 years, and also that a lot of information from both the Internet and agents is not reliable..... And that is why I am asking here. I do appreciate the replies but do not think I am being "silly" by asking about this, it is based on checking and speaking to two agents here.

So once again:

I need a medium term solution so that I have 6-9 months to amass the necessary $17,000 for the Elite Retirement Visa. Visa runs appear to be a poor option at this point, though I will have at least one additional one this time around. After that, I can either pay an agent to do what she told me she would do, which frankly sounds risky to me, or I can find some way to borrow the $17,000 (I can do that) and then bank it in Thailand for the 5 Year Elite Retirement Visa, or.... I am not sure, enroll at a university with visa support or perhaps get a teaching job with accompanying work visa. But I need some kind of medium term solution that takes me to the end of the year, when I will have the funds for a longer term retirement visa.

Once again, thanks for any and all constructive replies.

This is a serious thread... very serious for me, anyway. If you cannot be polite... do not bother responding. It reflects poorly on YOU, not me.

[DrJack54]

17 hours ago, john1201 said:

Thanks again. Just to be clear, are you advising me not to bother with getting another 60 day visa in Vientiane and to instead just re-enter Thailand with the usual 30 day visa on arrival under the exemption system, and then to get an agent to help me transition to a non O immigrant visa in the next 30 days or so on that 30-day visa?

Last year I spoke to a couple of agents and they offered to get me on the non O immigrant visa path for a fee.... pay them the fee, their companies would deposit the roughly $15,000 needed for that path to a bank account and I would receive that visa,  and then the company would retrieve its $15,000. And then I checked the Internet and found that there were a lot of instances where others had been promised a similar wonderful deal, but the problem was that even when the company in question did get keep its initial promise to put a person like me on the path to a longer term deal, the $15,000 was supposed to be a minimum balance left in a Thai bank... it could not be just withdrawn after the visa was obtained, it had to stay there, and if the Thai authorities saw that it had been withdrawn, I would face an unpleasant outcome and the agent who had supposedly helped me would not be interested in doing anything further to help at that point.

I am also a neophyte here so I do not understand the mechanics at all. I need a bank account in Thailand. I tried to do that with a letter from my language school last year.... and the bank told me no, go to the US Embassy, get some kind of letter there... and I did not get that done, no. But the bigger picture here is that to pursue this non O immigrant visa route, I first need a Thai bank account IN MY NAME ONLY, and then for a fee the agent will be able to deposit the roughly $15,000 for the 5-year deal into it, and then once I am on that track the agent company withdraws those funds.... and I assume that it is then up to me to supplement the $15,000 within a decent interval or.... well, I can imagine.

Sorry about the long meandering message, with the two parts being: 1) Can I really trust an agent to help me for a fee of 30,000 baht or so, without that "deal" just ending when the Immigration authorities see that my bank balance is closer to 0 than it is to $15,000? and 2) Without a Thai bank account in my name (it cannot be a joint account with my Thai girlfriend, for example, and it cannot be a US bank account), it will not be possible to pursue this non O immigrant visa option?

Sorry to be long-winded, just trying nail down my options here, I greatly appreciate the help.

 

Seriously your OP along with this post is all over the shop.

 

At times you refer to PE (elite visa) requirements.

That visa is purchased. It does not require maintaining funds in the bank unlike extensions based on retirement. 

 

You stated in another post this.....

 

"To answer the question about age, I am 65 years old. I am trying to amass the funds needed for a longer term deal but still short of the amount needed to transition to another category of visa." 

 

Your best option is a non O based on retirement and subsequent extensions.

That would have been the go to option rather than the other rubbish such as ED visa, tourist visa etc.

 

Without rehashing the details extensions based on retirement requires 800k baht for some months and 400k at other times. 

That was available to you from age 50. 

 

Elite visa is a straight out purchase.

Think it's 600k for 5 years. (someone will correct if wrong amount) .

That visa does not have a minimum age unlike mentioned for the non O retirement. 

Great option for some.

 

If you have 800k to stick in a Thai bank then obtain Non O and live in Thailand on annual extensions.

If you don't then use an agent.

30k for non O and extension then 15k per annum ongoing. 

 

[chris carre]

17 hours ago, underthesky said:

Is a tourist visa with a red stamp on it still valid for entry?

Now you are just being plain stupid

[Lemsta69]

3 hours ago, john1201 said:

I have read online that the first step on the ladder of getting a 20 year retirement visa is a 5 year visa (Elite Retirement Visa)

Elite Retirement Visa? There ain't no such beast.

 

What you're referring to is the Privilege Elite, or PE Visa and it's a Tourist Visa. 

 

As @DrJack54mentioned, the costs quoted for this visa are one-off payments to the company that manages the program and are not held on deposit in your bank account. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Lemsta69

[john1201]

Here is a much simpler question, thanks in advance for any responses. I have an agent who tells me that for a hefty fee her office can get me on the Elite Retirement Visa path by depositing the necessary funds, getting the visa, then withdrawing those funds. She assures me that the Thai government never checks to see what the bank balance is.... and I find that hard to believe, of course, it is the rule and the rule is there for a reason, obviously. But..... don't they check this at the time of 90 day reporting? A brief answer to this is all I need, TIA for any advice.

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, john1201 said:

Here is a much simpler question, thanks in advance for any responses. I have an agent who tells me that for a hefty fee her office can get me on the Elite Retirement Visa path by depositing the necessary funds, getting the visa, then withdrawing those funds. She assures me that the Thai government never checks to see what the bank balance is.... and I find that hard to believe, of course, it is the rule and the rule is there for a reason, obviously. But..... don't they check this at the time of 90 day reporting? A brief answer to this is all I need, TIA for any advice.

There are two completely different visas that you are confusing:

1. The Thailand Elite visa, a fancy tourist visa that has nothing to do with retirement, but allows you, without complications, to stay in Thailand because you like it here for a number of years. It costs a fair amount of money. There is zero benefit in using an agent when acquiring a Thailand Elite membership.
2. A Non O visa (for those over age 50) together with continuing one-year extensions. The most common way of qualifying for this is by depositing 800k baht in a Thai bank account and, essentially, keeping it there. This is the option your agent is talking about. The agent can arrange the visa and subsequent extensions, without the normal financial requirements.. The cost should be about 25,000-30,000 baht for the first 15 months and around 12,000-15,000 per year thereafter.

[Daithi85]

13 hours ago, chris carre said:

Now you are just being plain stupid

Why is being stupid?

It's a valid question.

Do you even know the correct answer?

Do you even actually know what he's talking about?

[DrJack54]

12 hours ago, john1201 said:

Here is a much simpler question, thanks in advance for any responses

If you read the thread carefully, I hàve suggested this option twice.

It is NOT an "Elite Visa" .

It is a non O retirement plus 12 month extension and that extension is obtained annually.

The initial cost should be approx 30k baht and subsequent annual extensions 15k baht. .....

Sound familiar?.....

I posted this twice. Here is earlier one.....

 

"If you have 800k to stick in a Thai bank then obtain Non O and live in Thailand on annual extensions.

 

If you don't then use an agent.

 

30k for non O and extension then 15k per annum ongoing"