Permanent Residence Application Assisstance

[Hocus Pocus]

Hello AN Community,

 

Just as the title says, I am looking for assistance with an application for Permanent Residence. I have done my research and know that I qualify on the criteria for the Employment variant (7 Years continuous employment, paid loads of taxes, Western nationality to fit within quota, etc.). I don't need anything beyond the basics to do the paperwork (which I know is a lot, including translations) and handhold with the initial visits to immigration. My Thai will need work, but I will do that myself. I have done some shopping with law firms and gotten some eye-popping quotations, one quote on the order of the cost for a 20-year Thai Elite Visa.

 

Need a Bangkok-based firm/company. Does anybody in the community have experience with doing a PR process with the assistance of a local company? Would be grateful for any suggestions for company that can do the job efficiently and effectively. Many thanks in advance.

[Kinnock]

I used Mazars Thailand, they have an office in Bangkok.

 

They were very efficient and helpful.  They're not the cheapest, but their costs were only a comparatively small component of the entire process. 

[OneMoreFarang]

I will follow this thread. Let's look what others write.

I plan to do this probably next year. My continuous employment record didn't survive Covid. This is why I have to wait a little.

 

I contacted already a law firm which was recommended to me by a business owner who hired them for his PR. It seems one important part is how well the lawyers know the people who make decisions. 

I am sure there are many people who can help you. But how much experience do they have? And how well connected are they if some paperwork is missing or not optimal?

The above guy told me he paid something extra to smooth things out a little. It seems his Thai interview was of the kind: What is your name? Do you like Thai food? ...

I am sure that is a part where problems might happen and when it's good to know how to react to certain demands.

Personally, I am willing to pay a well-connected lawyer to do this for me. It's not cheap but it's a one-time process. Getting it done without hassle is, at least for me, more important than saving 100k. 

[KiChakayan]

If I had [wet] dreams of PR i'd still have a serious look at the BOI/LTR offer. Which gives you 10 years with easy WPs for 50K, and a few pdfs one can send on line without leaving the bedloom.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

If I had [wet] dreams of PR i'd still have a serious look at the BOI/LTR offer. Which gives you 10 years with easy WPs for 50K, and a few pdfs one can send on line without leaving the bedloom.

555 BOI is difficult to get. And then it's a lot of work and conditions to keep that status.

[Jackbenimble]

15 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

555 BOI is difficult to get. And then it's a lot of work and conditions to keep that status.

its only difficult if you dont know what you're doing........like most things in life when you do them for the first time. With informed guidance it would be a genuine alternative from a financial perspective.

[scorecard]

Why are you menioning your will?

 

Personal will wasn't mentioned ever in the past.

 

Keep in mind that A Certificae of Residence is about YOU. It's not a status which extends to other family members.

 

Why would Thai immigration / the Thai government want to have any details of your will? In fact why would they want to know if you have or don't have a will?  

[LogicThai]

2 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

If I had [wet] dreams of PR i'd still have a serious look at the BOI/LTR offer. Which gives you 10 years with easy WPs for 50K, and a few pdfs one can send on line without leaving the bedloom.

I am thinking along the same lines. Admittedly PR in Thailand is somewhat valuable, and in a way it is "real" Permanent, unlike in say Singapore, where they make you re-apply every 5 years and will eventually deny renewal. However, the continuous employment and fluency requirements are too onerous, and I do not quite qualify. For what's left to run with my professional activity, a BOI/LTR might be more suitable, and after that, a regular Non-O Retirement, which is cheap and reasonably hassle-free. 

[scorecard]

59 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

I am thinking along the same lines. Admittedly PR in Thailand is somewhat valuable, and in a way it is "real" Permanent, unlike in say Singapore, where they make you re-apply every 5 years and will eventually deny renewal. However, the continuous employment and fluency requirements are too onerous, and I do not quite qualify. For what's left to run with my professional activity, a BOI/LTR might be more suitable, and after that, a regular Non-O Retirement, which is cheap and reasonably hassle-free. 

"...Admittedly PR in Thailand is somewhat valuable, and in a way it is "real" Permanent, unlike in say Singapore, where they make you re-apply every 5 years and will eventually deny renewal. ..."

 

Nice point.  I got Thai PR 26+ years ago. As you're aware it is permanent. The only time a PR holder needs to go to immigration is:

 

- To replace their PR book when it's full of departing and arrival passport stamps.

- To get an exit/re-entry stamp in regard to travel out of Thailand and return.

 

In both cases above there is no 're-assessment' of the PR status. 

 

Some will say there's not enough benefits, and it's too expensive.

 

Both points are valid.

 

Everybody has their own situation and their own opinion of these matters.

 

For me the high value is having a 99.9% guarantee I won't ever be seperated from my Thai family because of denial of renewal of a visa and/or changes in visa requirements which prohibits me from renewal of a visa, etc.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

"...Admittedly PR in Thailand is somewhat valuable, and in a way it is "real" Permanent, unlike in say Singapore, where they make you re-apply every 5 years and will eventually deny renewal. ..."

 

Nice point.  I got Thai PR 26+ years ago. As you're aware it is permanent. The only time a PR holder needs to go to immigration is:

 

- To replace their PR book when it's full of departing and arrival passport stamps.

- To get an exit/re-entry stamp in regard to travel out of Thailand and return.

 

In both cases above there is no 're-assessment' of the PR status. 

 

Some will say there's not enough benefits, and it's too expensive.

 

Both points are valid.

 

Everybody has their own situation and their own opinion of these matters.

 

For me the high value is having a 99.9% guarantee I won't ever be seperated from my Thai family because of denial of renewal of a visa and/or changes in visa requirements which prohibits me from renewal of a visa, etc.

A friend, who has Thai PR, summed it up like: You can sleep under a bridge, and they still can't throw you out. Not that I want to sleep under a bridge but it's good to know that permanent is permanent unless one becomes a criminal. 

[Haddo]

It's actually not that difficult - I got PR with my (Thai) wife assisting following Camerata's excellent Guide on here. 

There's no actual need to have a law firm or company to help. Plus it saves a lot of money. 

 

[Hocus Pocus]

5 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

If I had [wet] dreams of PR i'd still have a serious look at the BOI/LTR offer. Which gives you 10 years with easy WPs for 50K, and a few pdfs one can send on line without leaving the bedloom.

This is Plan B. One thing I considered is that one cannot apply for PR if they change visa to the LTR type, so I will give PR a try first. One twist I discovered with the LTR visa is that they require passive type income mainly assuming you have a 80k+ pension. My retirement cohort is the generation of Provident Funds, so they will need to think of revising their scheme for modern retirement plans. I know from the other discussion thread that I can stitch together things to meet the requirement for Wealthy Pensioner, so will keep the option in my back pocket.

[Hocus Pocus]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Why are you menioning your will?

Allow me to clarify. My Thai language skill will need some work. ????

[KiChakayan]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

555 BOI is difficult to get. And then it's a lot of work and conditions to keep that status.

Dunno why you say that? I must have spent a couple of hours behind my keyboard and and other two hours at Chamchuri square.

[KiChakayan]

3 hours ago, LogicThai said:

For what's left to run with my professional activity, a BOI/LTR might be more suitable, and after that, a regular Non-O Retirement, which is cheap and reasonably hassle-free. 

Speaking from experience, LTR/Pensioner is easier to get than a yearly extension, a bit like using an "empowered agent" (BOI), I didn't submit any paper, only pdfs. No stupid signatures on any form etc. Could use my original Pension, Bank and Insurances documents, no copies were needed as all originals were available on-line. Paid 50K, but thats for 10 years and that's roughly the cost of 10 extensions with 10 multiple return permits.

[jayboy]

50 minutes ago, Haddo said:

It's actually not that difficult - I got PR with my (Thai) wife assisting following Camerata's excellent Guide on here. 

There's no actual need to have a law firm or company to help. Plus it saves a lot of money. 

 

It depends on the individual's circumstances and their available time/appetite for dealing with Thai bureaucrats/willingness to pay.I have friends with PR who have done everything themselves.I have friends with PR who have used legal firms.A common denominator is that most were lucky enough to have had Thai secretaries that dealt with assembling the paperwork.Obviously a presentable/diligent wife would be of equal value.Oddly enough though most of the PR people I know were good or very passable Thai speakers most downplayed the importance of facility in the language. All stressed the importance of tax paid - the more the better. On the other hand I have heard reports that the language requirements have toughened up in recent years

 

Somebody mentioned Mazars as the firm they used.This is exactly the kind of firm I would use now (if I decided to use a firm as opposed to doing it myself) - solid, accountable if somewhat pricey. On no account would I use one of those firms - always with crappy websites - pitching to foreigners.In practice the donkey work is done by junior legal assistants.

 

If you comply with PR criteria you will almost certainly succeed.

 

Camerata's Guide is excellent but it needs a public spirited person to revamp it since it is rather unwieldy now.

[KiChakayan]

19 minutes ago, Hocus Pocus said:

This is Plan B. One thing I considered is that one cannot apply for PR if they change visa to the LTR type, so I will give PR a try first.

Have to admit that for me can only be  Plan A, as I have never worked in Thailand (thank heavens) and the only Thai word I get right is boomboom (or is it bumbum?)...

[OneMoreFarang]

48 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Dunno why you say that? I must have spent a couple of hours behind my keyboard and and other two hours at Chamchuri square.

To be sure we talk about the same thing.

I know the BOI as Borad of Investment. If a foreigner or a foreign company want to invest a lot of money in Thailand and if some criteria are met, then they might get BOI status (sorry, I am not sure about the correct term). If a company has BOI status, then they pay less or no tax, work permits are easy, etc.

But it seems it is not so easy to follow all those BOI rules and provide them constantly with the necessary documents.

That is my knowledge from talking to managers from BOI approved companies and from companies who thought about doing that but at the end didn't do it. To be fair, my information is years old. I don't know if this changed considerably over the years.

[LogicThai]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

Somebody mentioned Mazars as the firm they used.This is exactly the kind of firm I would use now (if I decided to use a firm as opposed to doing it myself) - solid, accountable if somewhat pricey.

Indeed. Mazars is reputable and reliable. They would be my GoTo firm for assistance, if I do not have my own minions to rely on at the time I apply, if indeed I do apply.

[LogicThai]

Board of Investment (BoI) is primarily the one-stop-shop for companies to invest in Thailand. They sort of shield them from having to deal directly with several government agencies, which can be a very frustrating experience.

In addition, BoI recently was tasked with performing a similar role for individuals in the context of the new schemes aimed at attracting selected profiles to Thailand. BoI is very pro-business, staffed with competent english-speaking staff, and their technology (website etc.) is a notch or two above the usual (i.e. it actually works...).

If eligible, going the BoI route is most definitely something to consider.

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

going the BoI route is most definitely something to consider

To do what?

Investing in Thailand?

Or does the BOI now have a way to apply for permanent residency or something similar?

The keyword is permanent. Now I work and have a business visa, and in theory I could have a business visa from a BOI approved company. But when I stop working then I don't have that visa. And I prefer to have permanent residency without having to apply for extensions, maybe under changing rules. 

[LogicThai]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

To do what?

Investing in Thailand?

Or does the BOI now have a way to apply for permanent residency or something similar?

The keyword is permanent. Now I work and have a business visa, and in theory I could have a business visa from a BOI approved company. But when I stop working then I don't have that visa. And I prefer to have permanent residency without having to apply for extensions, maybe under changing rules. 

I agree with that. Unfortunately, I currently cannot qualify for PR as I have been under 3 different visas in the last 5 years. On the other hand, I might qualify for a LTR administered by BoI, which may take me 5 or 10 years into the future, by which time I presumably would qualify for PR, or simply revert to a vanilla Non-O Retirement adn gently fade away.

[Stevemercer]

I have considered this route for tax reasons under the Thai-Australia Tax Agreement. However, when I looked at it a year or two ago the Agreement states I must be a 'citizen' of Thailand to pay taxes under Thai law, rather than Australian law. It seemed a bit too difficult for me at the time.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I had the firm that handled my employer's legal, auditing and tax work handle the paperwork for my application. They did not charge that much since they already had the firm's audit and tax business.  I convinced the directors that this would save money in the long run because annual visa admin and expenses would go away, so my employer paid the preparation fees. The auditing firm was, at the time, the local associate of one of the major US accounting firms, but I don't think that's the case any longer. But you might want to look into leveraging your employer's relationships with their legal or audit firms.

[KiChakayan]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

To be sure we talk about the same thing.

I know the BOI as Borad of Investment. If a foreigner or a foreign company want to invest a lot of money in Thailand and if some criteria are met, then they might get BOI status (sorry, I am not sure about the correct term). If a company has BOI status, then they pay less or no tax, work permits are easy, etc.

But it seems it is not so easy to follow all those BOI rules and provide them constantly with the necessary documents.

That is my knowledge from talking to managers from BOI approved companies and from companies who thought about doing that but at the end didn't do it. To be fair, my information is years old. I don't know if this changed considerably over the years.

That's what I was referring to.  A great leap forward IMHO.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Hocus Pocus said:

Allow me to clarify. My Thai language skill will need some work. ????

Thanks for clarifying.

[scorecard]

42 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I had the firm that handled my employer's legal, auditing and tax work handle the paperwork for my application. They did not charge that much since they already had the firm's audit and tax business.  I convinced the directors that this would save money in the long run because annual visa admin and expenses would go away, so my employer paid the preparation fees. The auditing firm was, at the time, the local associate of one of the major US accounting firms, but I don't think that's the case any longer. But you might want to look into leveraging your employer's relationships with their legal or audit firms.

True but beware of total rip offs.

 

I discovered a high proile international law form was handling renewal of my work permits (repeat work permits) and their fee was 120,000Baht every year. Totally outrageous.

 

I spoke to our admin. manager, she shared she had asked the law firm previously to reduce the fee and they refused, they also told her:

 

- By Thai law new and renewal WPs have to be handled by a law firm.

- Must be a lawyer because of the complex negotiations involved with the labour office. Total BS, there is no negotiation whatever.

- Their law firm was the only firm authorised to handle new and renewal work permits.

 

A quick search found a local business agency (with good reviews) who did the whole things for about 3,000Baht. They were fast, efficient, well organized and pleasant to deal with.

 

I asked my admin. manager to sit at my desk, I called the law firm (plenty of English) and told them that we would not be using their firm ever again for any purpose. My admin. manager was in tears and having a heart attack.

 

I sent a hand delivered confirmation that we would not be using their services again for any purpose.

 

The law firm replied with an offer to reduce their fees by 5%. Ignored.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

That's what I was referring to.  A great leap forward IMHO.

Thanks.

Ok, that has nothing to do with what I had in mind about the BOI.

It sounds interesting for people who have enough money or income. Unfortunately, I am not on that level. 

[LogicThai]

In addition to the employment-based PR application that we all know about, there seems to be several other options:

1. Employment
2. Investment
3. Humanitarian
4. Expert
5. Extra Circumstances

"Humanitarian" is described in various websites as "Marry a Thai citizen for at least 2 years, or be the biological mother/father of a Thai child". 

This last part is quite encouraging, if true, as many foreigners are married to a Thai citizen and/or father of one or more. It does not remove the requirement of 3 years of legal presence under the same visa (which is a bummed for me, who have swung from Non-O to Non-B and back, and there is mention level of salary/income (30,000 baht per month on average, it seems). Some of that is implied anyway in the requirement for maintaining presence in Thailand in the first place (like 400k/800k per year etc.). And the implied requirement of a level of fluency in Thai language is there too.

I wonder where this leaves us. Is PR application on "Humanitarian" grounds more easily accessible than the "Employment" route?

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

22 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

I wonder where this leaves us. Is PR application on "Humanitarian" grounds more easily accessible than the "Employment" route?

If you are married and work, then you have both options. It seems that makes things easier.

But personally for me that is not reason enough to marry.