return from UK

nikmar · April 17, 2023

Hi,

I returned late last night (Sunday 16th April) from a 2 week trip to the UK. Im currently on a non immigrant B visa with a work permit. I re entered Thailand on a re entry permit.

Is there anything I have to do at Chaeng Wattana - new 90 day report / TM 30 - anything like that. im vaguely aware of some rules but i cant seem to get good info from the net.

.

My apologies if im bringing up an old question.

Thanks in advance

Red Phoenix · April 17, 2023

TM 30 > Since you re-entered on a Re-Entry Permit there is no need to file a new TM 30 as your current one for the place you are residing is still valid.

Since 30 June 2020 a TM 30 notification needs to be done only ONCE for the main place where you as foreigner are staying, as the filed TM30 will stay valid as long as your permission to stay is kept alive (including its extension or when using a Re-Entry Permit).

90-day report > The clock for your 90-day reporting was reset when you re-entered Thailand. In other words your next 90-day reporting due date will be somewhere mid July.

blackcab · April 17, 2023

Check the ink stamp in your passport has the correct date.

It's very rare a mistake happens, but it has been known from time to time.

andersonat · April 17, 2023

15 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

TM 30 > Since you re-entered on a Re-Entry Permit there is no need to file a new TM 30 as your current one for the place you are residing is still valid.

Since 30 June 2020 a TM 30 notification needs to be done only ONCE for the main place where you as foreigner are staying, as the filed TM30 will stay valid as long as your permission to stay is kept alive (including its extension or when using a Re-Entry Permit).

90-day report > The clock for your 90-day reporting was reset when you re-entered Thailand. In other words your next 90-day reporting due date will be somewhere mid July.

I live (and for TM 30 purposes I'm registered) in Chiang Mai.

I visited Pattaya for a weekend 2 weeks ago for a holiday, staying in a (large, well-known) Hotel. ... I tried to make an online 90-day Report a few days ago. ... My application was refused, because I had stayed in, and had been "registered" by, the Hotel in P (said the email). ... The refusal-email also told me that I have ( = my Wife has) to make a new TM 30 declaration at CM Immigration, before I can make my 90-day Report. .

Red Phoenix · April 17, 2023

5 hours ago, andersonat said:

I live (and for TM 30 purposes I'm registered) in Chiang Mai.

I visited Pattaya for a weekend 2 weeks ago for a holiday, staying in a (large, well-known) Hotel. ... I tried to make an online 90-day Report a few days ago. ... My application was refused, because I had stayed in, and had been "registered" by, the Hotel in P (said the email). ... The refusal-email also told me that I have ( = my Wife has) to make a new TM 30 declaration at CM Immigration, before I can make my 90-day Report. .

WOW, if staying in a Hotel that issues a TM-30 (as they are supposed to) invalidates your official address for Immigration purposes that would be extremely inconvenient for anybody doing a trip and staying in a Hotel/guesthouse. As it would mean that you have to notify local Immigration again that you have returned to your previous address by providing them with a TM-30, before they will provide you with any service.

I do hope that this is a mistake by Chiang Mai IO, because it is contrary to the June 2020 regulation on TM-30 which stipulated that a TM 30 notification needs to be done only ONCE for the main place where you as foreigner are staying, and the filed TM30 will stay valid as long as your permission to stay is kept alive (including its extension or when using a Re-Entry Permit).

Lemsta69 · April 17, 2023

8 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

WOW, if staying in a Hotel that issues a TM-30 (as they are supposed to) invalidates your official address for Immigration purposes that would be extremely inconvenient for anybody doing a trip and staying in a Hotel/guesthouse. As it would mean that you have to notify local Immigration again that you have returned to your previous address by providing them with a TM-30, before they will provide you with any service.

I do hope that this is a mistake by Chiang Mai IO, because it is contrary to the June 2020 regulation on TM-30 which stipulated that a TM 30 notification needs to be done only ONCE for the main place where you as foreigner are staying, and the filed TM30 will stay valid as long as your permission to stay is kept alive (including its extension or when using a Re-Entry Permit).

There's been quite a few recent(ish) posts in other threads that have mentioned Chiang Mai IO are not conforming to the June 2020 update.

I believe a few other offices do the same but I can't remember all the details. One chap said that not only does his office want a fresh TM30 after every trip, it has to be done in person, online not allowed.

Red Phoenix · April 17, 2023

17 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

There's been quite a few recent(ish) posts in other threads that have mentioned Chiang Mai IO are not conforming to the June 2020 update.

I believe a few other offices do the same but I can't remember all the details. One chap said that not only does his office want a fresh TM30 after every trip, it has to be done in person, online not allowed.

Thanks @Lemsta69

In that case registering your address on the IO TM-30 website would be an option, as that would allow you to issue your own TM 30 notification when returning home.

When your address is registered on the IO TM-30 website and you notify IO of having returned there by issuing the TM-30 notification, it would be strange and totally out of bounds if Chiang Mai IO would insist on visiting their office in person for the TM 30 notification.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Red Phoenix

Lemsta69 · April 18, 2023

20 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Thanks @Lemsta69

In that case registering your address on the IO TM-30 website would be an option, as that would allow you to issue your own TM 30 notification when returning home.

When your address is registered on the IO TM-30 website and you notify IO of having returned there by issuing the TM-30 notification, it would be strange and totally out of bounds if Chiang Mai IO would insist on visiting their office in person for the TM 30 notification.

I don't know what IO it was that insisted on in person reports, the OP didn't say.

Here's the thread if you're interested..

https://aseannow.com/topic/1290795-tm-30-question/#comment-17991651

Toolong · April 18, 2023

6 hours ago, andersonat said:

I live (and for TM 30 purposes I'm registered) in Chiang Mai.

I visited Pattaya for a weekend 2 weeks ago for a holiday, staying in a (large, well-known) Hotel. ... I tried to make an online 90-day Report a few days ago. ... My application was refused, because I had stayed in, and had been "registered" by, the Hotel in P (said the email). ... The refusal-email also told me that I have ( = my Wife has) to make a new TM 30 declaration at CM Immigration, before I can make my 90-day Report. .

Well, well, well....????

What you say gets my attention, andersonat. I'm on yearly marriage extension, live and am TM30-registered, in Korat....and my Thai family are currently enjoying themselves down in Pattaya while I remain here in Korat, after I refused to go with them because of fears that what happened in your case might happen to me.

I live very far from the Imm. Office, so 'hiccups' like this would be very inconvenient & quite costly.

I guess that apart from just having a good old moan about the system, the point of my post is to say that I just don't feel confident that WHATEVER my 'local' Imm.Office did say ( and tbh I haven't yet enquired) about me needing or not needing to do a new TM30 if I stayed in a hotel in Pattaya (for example), I can rely on that as being true in ACTUALITY, down the line. It's very frustrating. 'Oh, 'The Shifting Fog' of Thai immigration rules!

Your post makes me feel maybe I did the right thing by staying home. ????

Red Phoenix · April 18, 2023

57 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Well, well, well....????

What you say gets my attention, andersonat. I'm on yearly marriage extension, live and am TM30-registered, in Korat....and my Thai family are currently enjoying themselves down in Pattaya while I remain here in Korat, after I refused to go with them because of fears that what happened in your case might happen to me.

I live very far from the Imm. Office, so 'hiccups' like this would be very inconvenient & quite costly.

I guess that apart from just having a good old moan about the system, the point of my post is to say that I just don't feel confident that WHATEVER my 'local' Imm.Office did say ( and tbh I haven't yet enquired) about me needing or not needing to do a new TM30 if I stayed in a hotel in Pattaya (for example), I can rely on that as being true in ACTUALITY, down the line. It's very frustrating. 'Oh, 'The Shifting Fog' of Thai immigration rules!

Your post makes me feel maybe I did the right thing by staying home. ????

You could consider registering your address on the IO TM-30 website, as that would allow you to issue your own TM 30 notification when returning home.

I did PM you a comprehensive guideline on how to do that. It is not rocket-science, but without clear instructions it would be once again a very thai confusing experience.

andersonat · April 18, 2023

11 hours ago, Toolong said:

Well, well, well....????

What you say gets my attention, andersonat. I'm on yearly marriage extension, live and am TM30-registered, in Korat....and my Thai family are currently enjoying themselves down in Pattaya while I remain here in Korat, after I refused to go with them because of fears that what happened in your case might happen to me.

I live very far from the Imm. Office, so 'hiccups' like this would be very inconvenient & quite costly.

I guess that apart from just having a good old moan about the system, the point of my post is to say that I just don't feel confident that WHATEVER my 'local' Imm.Office did say ( and tbh I haven't yet enquired) about me needing or not needing to do a new TM30 if I stayed in a hotel in Pattaya (for example), I can rely on that as being true in ACTUALITY, down the line. It's very frustrating. 'Oh, 'The Shifting Fog' of Thai immigration rules!

Your post makes me feel maybe I did the right thing by staying home. ????

I finally have a "definitive" answer on the situation concerning using the Online 90-Day Report Service for the situation in *Chiang Mai Immigration* from a Supervisor/Manager based at the Chiang Mai Central Festival Office.

If I travel around Thailand, and if a Hotel registers me as being a Guest, and informs The Immigration Office of this, then The Immigration Office (in Bangkok) will update my address in their national records.

If I *don't* go to Chiang Mai Immigration (at the Airport-Office) when I return to CM, and tell them that I have returned to my home, then the Hotel-address will remain my address on-the-official record.

This is *not* a problem for CM Immigration Staff if you want to make a 90-Day Report *in person*, or *by post*, because the CM 90-Day Report Staff can understand what has happened/is happening, they will give you a new paper 90-Day Report, and there *won't* be a fine.

HOWEVER, if you *don't* update your address (to your Home-Address, with a new TM30) then you *won't* be able to continue to use the *Online 90-Day Report Service", and you'll have to do the 90-Day Reports in person, or by post.

Toolong · April 19, 2023

21 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

You could consider registering your address on the IO TM-30 website, as that would allow you to issue your own TM 30 notification when returning home.

I did PM you a comprehensive guideline on how to do that. It is not rocket-science, but without clear instructions it would be once again a very thai confusing experience.

Sorry, Red Phoenix, delay in seeing your message.

Thanks for your advice. I definitely will study the guidelines you kindly sent. But I will be honest and say that I'm a bit skeptical about how 'problem-free' the process might be, in the sense of how much it might actually cause problems to my current trouble-free status-quo (re online 90 day reporting, etc) rather than allow it to continue smoothly.

But maybe I'm being paranoid!! ????

Toolong · April 19, 2023

11 hours ago, andersonat said:

I finally have a "definitive" answer on the situation concerning using the Online 90-Day Report Service for the situation in *Chiang Mai Immigration* from a Supervisor/Manager based at the Chiang Mai Central Festival Office.

If I travel around Thailand, and if a Hotel registers me as being a Guest, and informs The Immigration Office of this, then The Immigration Office (in Bangkok) will update my address in their national records.

If I *don't* go to Chiang Mai Immigration (at the Airport-Office) when I return to CM, and tell them that I have returned to my home, then the Hotel-address will remain my address on-the-official record.

This is *not* a problem for CM Immigration Staff if you want to make a 90-Day Report *in person*, or *by post*, because the CM 90-Day Report Staff can understand what has happened/is happening, they will give you a new paper 90-Day Report, and there *won't* be a fine.

HOWEVER, if you *don't* update your address (to your Home-Address, with a new TM30) then you *won't* be able to continue to use the *Online 90-Day Report Service", and you'll have to do the 90-Day Reports in person, or by post.

Andersonat,

Sorry for delay in replying.

I very much appreciate you making this post and laying out so clearly what you understand to be the case re hotel stays/tm30 registrations/subsequent online 90 day reporting.

Thank you. ????

It sounds very 'logical' to me, in the sense of how the system might be set up to work 'ok', but with potential problems later on - for the foreign 'alien'! - if they are not aware of the points you make.

IF the online TM30 system is 'problem-free' (I'm not yet familiar with it) - that's a big IF! - then I guess I should not be so skeptical about using it, but atm I am a bit paranoid about it all.

Atm, I carry on my life without any trouble with online 90 day reporting and hate the idea of glitches! (Hour and a half drive away from immigration office!)

Price I pay is never staying in hotels when I travel! ???????????????? (Not ideal, I know!)

Red Phoenix · April 19, 2023

2 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Andersonat,

Sorry for delay in replying.

I very much appreciate you making this post and laying out so clearly what you understand to be the case re hotel stays/tm30 registrations/subsequent online 90 day reporting.

Thank you. ????

It sounds very 'logical' to me, in the sense of how the system might be set up to work 'ok', but with potential problems later on - for the foreign 'alien'! - if they are not aware of the points you make.

IF the online TM30 system is 'problem-free' (I'm not yet familiar with it) - that's a big IF! - then I guess I should not be so skeptical about using it, but atm I am a bit paranoid about it all.

Atm, I carry on my life without any trouble with online 90 day reporting and hate the idea of glitches! (Hour and a half drive away from immigration office!)

Price I pay is never staying in hotels when I travel! ???????????????? (Not ideal, I know!)

@Toolong @andersonat

Hi,

Andersonat's post is correct and it provides the explanation why he was not able to do his 90-day report on-line after his trip.

The problem is as good as certain due to the fact that the Hotel/Guesthouse were you stayed, registered you as a Guest on their TM-30 notification to local Immigration using incorrect data, thereby prompting the IO TM-30 system to change your 'official address for Immigration purposes'.

I presume that the Hotel made that mistake. They need to notify the local Imm Office that you are staying there, by providing your name, Passport-number, etc as well as the TYPE VISA on which you are staying in Thailand.

When you are on a VisaExempt or Tourist Visa, the Hotel will then become your last known address in Thailand.

But when you are on a Non Imm O Visa or extension issued by your provincial Imm office where you have your official address, the system should not 'update' your address.

I presume the Hotel incorrectly wrote Tourist Visa or Visa Exempt on the TM-30 by which they notified the local Imm Office, and so your official address was overwritten with the Hotel address.

To avoid the problem in the future, you could try to have your Thai wife as main Hotel-guest (and you just visiting her, without the Hotel registering you - this should work if you stay less than 24 hours), or ask them to not notify Immigration of you staying there.

If not possible explain the Hotel that you are on a Non Imm O Visa. And ask for a copy of the TM-30 the Hotel made to check whether they did it correctly (but I am not sure whether it can be corrected by the Hotel once their TM-30 was issued and processed).

Toolong · April 19, 2023

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

@Toolong @andersonat

Hi,

Andersonat's post is correct and it provides the explanation why he was not able to do his 90-day report on-line after his trip.

The problem is as good as certain due to the fact that the Hotel/Guesthouse were you stayed, registered you as a Guest on their TM-30 notification to local Immigration using incorrect data, thereby prompting the IO TM-30 system to change your 'official address for Immigration purposes'.

I presume that the Hotel made that mistake. They need to notify the local Imm Office that you are staying there, by providing your name, Passport-number, etc as well as the TYPE VISA on which you are staying in Thailand.

When you are on a VisaExempt or Tourist Visa, the Hotel will then become your last known address in Thailand.

But when you are on a Non Imm O Visa or extension issued by your provincial Imm office where you have your official address, the system should not 'update' your address.

I presume the Hotel incorrectly wrote Tourist Visa or Visa Exempt on the TM-30 by which they notified the local Imm Office, and so your official address was overwritten with the Hotel address.

To avoid the problem in the future, you could try to have your Thai wife as main Hotel-guest (and you just visiting her, without the Hotel registering you - this should work if you stay less than 24 hours), or ask them to not notify Immigration of you staying there.

If not possible explain the Hotel that you are on a Non Imm O Visa. And ask for a copy of the TM-30 the Hotel made to check whether they did it correctly (but I am not sure whether it can be corrected by the Hotel once their TM-30 was issued and processed).

Pure gold, Red Phoenix! ????

I have been needing to understand this for a long, long time! And now I do....thank you!

I particularly appreciate your advice on ensuring that hotels do submit the correct details + asking for a copy.......AND.....better still (for me!), alternative ways of using hotels without registering.

But anyway, like I said, it's good - thanks yourself and andersonat - to finally understand how the process works, including the pitfalls in it! ????????

BritTim · April 19, 2023

On 4/18/2023 at 1:03 AM, andersonat said:

I live (and for TM 30 purposes I'm registered) in Chiang Mai.

I visited Pattaya for a weekend 2 weeks ago for a holiday, staying in a (large, well-known) Hotel. ... I tried to make an online 90-day Report a few days ago. ... My application was refused, because I had stayed in, and had been "registered" by, the Hotel in P (said the email). ... The refusal-email also told me that I have ( = my Wife has) to make a new TM 30 declaration at CM Immigration, before I can make my 90-day Report. .

Sigh! Unlucky. The rules clearly state that you only need to make a new TM30 notification if either (i) your permanent address changes; or (ii) you return to Thailand without a re-entry permit, thus receiving a fresh permission to stay. Unfortunately, some immigration offices are a law unto themselves. You just need to grin and bear it when this happens.

BritTim · April 19, 2023

23 hours ago, andersonat said:

HOWEVER, if you *don't* update your address (to your Home-Address, with a new TM30) then you *won't* be able to continue to use the *Online 90-Day Report Service", and you'll have to do the 90-Day Reports in person, or by post.

I am sure the official who told you that nonsense was very friendly and convincing. It is still nonsense. All officials, whether processing online 90-day reports, 90-day reports received by mail, or 90-day reports made in person have access to exactly the same information. The decision was made several years ago that, while hotels were still supposed to record the presence of any foreigners who stayed at their properties (and would be fined if they did not) there was no need to submit a fresh TM30 notification every time you returned to your permanent address. It was recognised that it is absurd to insist that those making frequent trips away from home should have to either (i) ask the hotel to violate the law on TM30 notifications; or (ii) make dozens of TM30 notifications a year yourself.

hotandsticky · April 19, 2023

On 4/18/2023 at 8:21 AM, Toolong said:

Well, well, well....????

What you say gets my attention, andersonat. I'm on yearly marriage extension, live and am TM30-registered, in Korat....and my Thai family are currently enjoying themselves down in Pattaya while I remain here in Korat, after I refused to go with them because of fears that what happened in your case might happen to me.

I live very far from the Imm. Office, so 'hiccups' like this would be very inconvenient & quite costly.

I guess that apart from just having a good old moan about the system, the point of my post is to say that I just don't feel confident that WHATEVER my 'local' Imm.Office did say ( and tbh I haven't yet enquired) about me needing or not needing to do a new TM30 if I stayed in a hotel in Pattaya (for example), I can rely on that as being true in ACTUALITY, down the line. It's very frustrating. 'Oh, 'The Shifting Fog' of Thai immigration rules!

Your post makes me feel maybe I did the right thing by staying home. ????

So....you stayed at home for fear of having to do a TM30.

Do you realise how limp that sounds?

Let your family do the booking and simply share a room with your wife. Keep out of the way while they check in.

BritTim · April 19, 2023

9 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

So....you stayed at home for fear of having to do a TM30.

Do you realise how limp that sounds?

Let your family do the booking and simply share a room with your wife. Keep out of the way while they check in.

This is probably technically illegal. By law in Thailand, all guests of hotels are supposed to be registered if they are staying overnight. It is true that the law is not always followed. If the hotel does not see you enter the hotel, they are probably in the clear and should not face a fine for the failure to register you and submit the TM30 notification.

hotandsticky · April 19, 2023

46 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This is probably technically illegal. By law in Thailand, all guests of hotels are supposed to be registered if they are staying overnight. It is true that the law is not always followed. If the hotel does not see you enter the hotel, they are probably in the clear and should not face a fine for the failure to register you and submit the TM30 notification.

I know of a few friends who get their wives to make bookings.

One could always say that your passport is with VfS Global/an agent for renewal..... if the hotel wants your business they will not confront you.

Toolong · April 20, 2023

13 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

So....you stayed at home for fear of having to do a TM30.

Do you realise how limp that sounds?

Let your family do the booking and simply share a room with your wife. Keep out of the way while they check in.

'Limp'!??

How dare you, sir! Pistols at dawn! ????

No, you're right. It IS limp! But let's just say....my overall past experiences with immigration matters has not always been 'smooth', so I kinda like to stay off their radar (so to speak) as much as possible. Of course, maybe I'm just being paranoid!

Btw....is it really possible to avoid me personally registering & giving my passport details to hotels - if accompanied by Thai wife/family - like you suggest? If so, that would be fine!

hotandsticky · April 20, 2023

8 minutes ago, Toolong said:

Btw....is it really possible to avoid me personally registering & giving my passport details to hotels - if accompanied by Thai wife/family - like you suggest? If so, that would be fine!

Friends have done it. Quite often in the past when local Immigration insisted on a new TM30 every time you returned from out of province travel.

Thais tend to avoid any confrontation and I don't think many hotels would turn you away.. I always check in with my Thai DL (never passport).

Give it a try - and remember the passport renewal as a back-up excuse.

PS - I hope the limp gets better soon ????????

ripstanley · April 20, 2023

On 4/19/2023 at 7:49 AM, Toolong said:

Andersonat,

Sorry for delay in replying.

I very much appreciate you making this post and laying out so clearly what you understand to be the case re hotel stays/tm30 registrations/subsequent online 90 day reporting.

Thank you. ????

It sounds very 'logical' to me, in the sense of how the system might be set up to work 'ok', but with potential problems later on - for the foreign 'alien'! - if they are not aware of the points you make.

IF the online TM30 system is 'problem-free' (I'm not yet familiar with it) - that's a big IF! - then I guess I should not be so skeptical about using it, but atm I am a bit paranoid about it all.

Atm, I carry on my life without any trouble with online 90 day reporting and hate the idea of glitches! (Hour and a half drive away from immigration office!)

Price I pay is never staying in hotels when I travel! ???????????????? (Not ideal, I know!)

When I travel in Thailand I check in by showing my Thai drivers licence.

Toolong · April 20, 2023

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Friends have done it. Quite often in the past when local Immigration insisted on a new TM30 every time you returned from out of province travel.

Thais tend to avoid any confrontation and I don't think many hotels would turn you away.. I always check in with my Thai DL (never passport).

Give it a try - and remember the passport renewal as a back-up excuse.

PS - I hope the limp gets better soon ????????

555 ????

'Passport renewal'. ???????? That's a good 'un.

PS: Unless it was a top hotel, which wouldn't go for it, I think I'd just be honest and explain why I'd rather not register with my pp number. Just the wife's. Some places might be ok with that. If not, stay home with my limp!

Toolong · April 20, 2023

4 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

When I travel in Thailand I check in by showing my Thai drivers licence.

But don't they just refer to the passport number which is clearly stated on the Thai DL? ????

markclover · April 20, 2023

Notifying them of your address. Many immigration scams ask for it.

ripstanley · April 20, 2023

4 minutes ago, Toolong said:

But don't they just refer to the passport number which is clearly stated on the Thai DL? ????

They need more information then just the passport number and name.

brewsterbudgen · April 20, 2023

17 minutes ago, ripstanley said:

When I travel in Thailand I check in by showing my Thai drivers licence.

Although your Thai DL shows your passport number it doesn't show your Permission to Stay stamp. A legit hotel needs this information to report your stay.

Toolong · April 20, 2023

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Although your Thai DL shows your passport number it doesn't show your Permission to Stay stamp. A legit hotel needs this information to report your stay.

Ah, ok....I did not know that. Thanks for explaining that! ????????

BritTim · April 20, 2023

5 hours ago, Toolong said:

Btw....is it really possible to avoid me personally registering & giving my passport details to hotels - if accompanied by Thai wife/family - like you suggest? If so, that would be fine!

By law, all guests staying overnight must be registered. Of course, the hotel may not see you (or may choose to pretend they do not see you).

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