Retire Sooner? Or Later? What Would You Do?

[Lite Beer]

Me and my Thai wife live pretty well on the sums you are talking about. However we live in an Issaan village with no bars or fancy restaraunts. She eats a lot of local street food and I eat mostly Thai food made with items from the local market. Also we own our own house so no rentals.

In your case I am sitting on the fence as it is touch and go.

[lopburi3]

OP mentioned having medical and repatriation insurance and wonder if he can provide details as am sure there are a number of readers who would be interested to find affordable insurance of that type.

[JimsKnight]

I think if you are the roaming sort of person you will definately need more than a paltry 35,000 baht a month unless you are a creature of low-key routine for most of the month.

Its easy to go over budget if you get bored.

That sort of figure is good for Issansville but not quite Chang Mai.

In Chiang Mai I was living quite comfortably off 35K Baht by using a paid for bike for transport and only staying for 3 months.

BUT I was budgeting everything down to the last satang, going out meant only drinking a max. of 3 alcoholic beverages etc. This (even for my kee neow ways) was starting to drag a wee bit.

However the small towns around Chiang Mai like Mae Rim etc are cheaper and 35k Baht is easily doable IF you live the quiet life.

You'll be retiring for good so more coin may be needed.

I haven't checked the retirement visa but is it the case that if you are not married to a thai national the retirement visa reverts to a single persons requirements? I'm probably being pessimistic on that but check the visa rules to be sure.

Good luck.

[lopburi3]

The visa rule is 65k/800k or combination and for spouse it will not be required - they obtain extension on basis of retirement extension spouse. But there will be costs involved - 1,900 each for extension and 3,800 each for re-entry permits each year (they plan to travel often so probably need the multi entry type).

[Eff1n2ret]

Whatever you decide to do, if either of you suffer from Astma or bronchial problems the re-consder your choice of location.

As a sufferer I agree with that in relation to Bangkok. But on the East Coast (away from the pollution of Pattaya), I feel pretty fit, with a sea breeze and much lower humidity.

[lopburi3]

We are talking about Chiang Mai - which becomes extremely polluted in the early part of each year - and it is getting worse each year.

[Fred Sanford]

If you can retire now, why even question it.

Life is too short. Do it Now!

Hear hear!! Do it now!!

yes he can do it now; one problem though, he's flat broke om his ass. My father once told me something important, he said "life is long"; and it is long. you'll live into your 80s probably and have no cash whatsoever. 500K baht is nothing, 1 mil baht is nothing. dont do it till you have 10 mil for the 2 of you

[Jingthing]

Most Americans do not live anywhere near as long as 80. Especially men. Of course, I agree you need more in the bank to deal with contingencies, long life or short. Currently, the trend is shorter life spans for Americans, due to poor diet, stress, lack of exercise, aids, obesity, cancer epidemic, and the poor health care system, rated lower than any other advanced Western country by the WHO. BTW, the OP retiree is typical. Not enough money to retire in America, or maybe anywhere. The majority of older Americans are in similar boats, and now with weak dollars, even retiring overseas is much less affordable.

Source:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

OK, New Zealand is lower.

Life span declines (controversial)

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special2...obesity-ON.html

Edited July 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

Actually the life expectation of an American male at age 62 is about 17 years or 79 years of age.

For an American female at age 60 it would be 22 years or age 82.

Good health as reported would add a number of years to the above.

[Jingthing]

Statistics are deceptive. It is true that if you make it past 60, statistically you will live longer, so Lop, you are correct, if you are already old, there is a better chance you will get older. Good point. Looking at your own personal situation is a good idea in this planning, health, family history, etc.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[retiree]

To get back to the OP's original query, it's important to remember that "life expectancy" means average expectancy.

A widely cited Society of Actuaries 2000 Mortality Table (e.g.

http://www.jhannuities.com/marketing/gener...?ContentId=4219 ) points out that a 65-year-old male in good health has an average --50%-- expectation of living to age 85. He also has a 25% chance of surviving to 92. For a 65-year-old female, the numbers are 88 and 94, respectively. At least one member of a healthy 65-year-old couple has a 72% chance of living to age 85 and a 50% chance of living to age 92.

Under these circumstances, it only makes sense to take Social Security early if you feel you have an adequate safety net -- e.g. substantial existing assets -- because the risk of unexpected longevity only affects how much of your surplus assets will be passed along to your heirs.

On the other hand, if you expect to be largely dependent on SS income, the difference between spending the rest of your life on (and these are typical figures) $US 1K/month (retire at 62), $1.325/mo. (retire at 66), and $1.75/mo. (retire at 70) is substantial, especially as they are inflation adjusted.

Retiree

[PeaceBlondie]

The poster appropriately named 'retiree' has a valid point. I worked with civil service regulars who already were well past 30 years' service and age 55, but they kept earning more pension at ages 65 and 70. Pensions, of which they very likely would never even recoup their own contributions!! If you are earning a pension, either public or private, investigate its actuarial computations without earning an MS in maths. See what your options really mean. Consider if staying in the rat race of earning a Western pension might be killing you before retirement, and whether life in a place like Thailand might prolong or shorten your apparent life expectancy. Check the online free tests for life expectancy, based on things like your lifestyle habits.

For example, this URL http://www.hksrch.com.hk/life.html thinks I'll live to age 76, and it knew I lived in Thailand. I had to pretend I'd gotten a speeding ticket recently.

http://gosset.wharton.upenn.edu/mortality/perl/CalcForm.html says I'll live to 89, even if I claimed to have lots of sex partners recently.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp says I'll live to 90!

[Mobi]

For what it's worth, I'm with the Bendix/PeaceBlondie school of thought.

I think that 500K or 1 M. Baht, along with the OP's stated modest monthly income, is nowhere near enough to see a couple in their early sixties, assuming reasonable health, through to ripe old age in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

OK PB, has suggested teaching (which may or may not be possible/legal?), but without some sort of supplement to your income, you are really going to struggle. No one can predict what will happen to the cost of living in Thailand, but if current trends are anything to go by, it will continue it's upward spiral and your dollars will buy less and less as you approach your seventies.

I would have thought you might be better off going to somewhere in Central America, where the rules on doing a bit of part time work are more friendly to would-be retirees.

Please think this through very carefully, and take care.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Mobi. Actually, I only mentioned teaching because I don't think these folks can make it on 35K overall in the long run, and there's nothing else that they can do. For that matter, they're over the hill age-wise for teaching in Chiang Mai, and there's about an 89.32% chance they won't be legal, with visa and work permit, within two years after they start teaching, if they can even last one semester. Meaning that the potential for supplemental income is about 10.68%. We can't reccomend anything illegal, so that leaves 35K per month for everything, because a cushion of 500K should only be used for the final illness, IMHO.

Speaking of the original poster: wherefore art thou?

[twix38]

I think you would both enjoy life for the first 6 to 18 months. Then a lack of options caused by your financial situation and boredom would make you regret your choice.

I am back from 8 months in Thailand. I own a Condo to reduce costs, whereas you would need to pay rent and live basically like paupers. Costs (planned and unexpected) really do mount up.

Your funds are ridiculous to expect to plan a safe and secure retirement or even to just get by in 5 years time or more.

Your best bet would indeed be that you both died about 5 years after you arrived, to save yourselves from real hardship, pain and acute boredom after the honeymoon period due to a lack of options.

Can you imagine what life is like not being able to do things, including to work. Inflation and likely exchange rate movement against the $ will crucify you well within 7 years and after the honeymoon period it will already be like a jail with so much time to fill without the resources (money) to enjoy even 1 carefree minute of it!

Sorry, but in my opinion you cannot ignore the lack of provision and the financial facts. You will probably return to the US after a failed gamble.

When you get to the tipping point of funds needed against life expectancy, only then is it worth the gamble, and it's still a gamble as your final days may result in being repatriated back to the US with nothing left and living in a state run home for the elderly, waiting and hoping to die or banking on your children's charity.

Edited July 8, 2007 by twix38

[yongyeng]

I am not sure if I have missed this in the post somewhere along the way, but did you say that you owned your property in San Diego?

If you own it, do you have any mortgage remaining?

The reason I ask, is why not rent out your property? Have you checked out with a local letting agent how much rent you could bring in?

Sorry if you have mentioned already, but its something to think about, a bit more monthly income might help you make the decision.

Cheers

[TakingAVacation]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old

To clarifly the age question, if we retire in late 2008, I will be 62 and my wife 60. I would be drawing Social Security and my wife a pension from her job. In 2010, she would also start drawing Social Security.

Social Security? Under the planned North American Union, expected to go into effect by 2010? Still 'solvent'?

I'm not banking on it. Neither should you.

Besides, there won't be USD anymore. The Amero will take its place. And at what exchange rate is anybody's guess at this point. It might be 1 to 1. Then again, it might not. Depends upon how nice the intl bankers feel toward us (and since when have bankers been known to be fair?... )

If we wait until 2010, I would be 64 and collecting an increased amount from SS, my wife would have SS and an increased pension from her job.

And we would almost certainly have more savings.

And, unfortunately, it is likely that, with the way things have been going, Thai Immigration will have also moved the goalposts yet even further, requiring everyone to show even more money up front, just for the priviledge of spending it here.

They have a relatively simple formula for doing this, too: just double it.

Now that you can bank on...

[lopburi3]

He mentioned living in San Diego but did not mention owning property there. He is a military vet so that most likely explains my question about medical insurance.

[grahamhc]

I have an American friend who has been researching NICARAGUA and Panama as retirment locations as it is only a 4 hours flight from the states and not have the negative visa problems of Thailand. I think he said it was only US$400 a month gets you a retirement visa and you can import your car TAX FREE.

Check it out yourself, as it could be a better choice for you.

At your age, consider your Heath Care costs. In Pattaya, it is getting near "Western fees" due to the greed of the private hospitals and their accountants.

[Jingthing]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old

To clarifly the age question, if we retire in late 2008, I will be 62 and my wife 60. I would be drawing Social Security and my wife a pension from her job. In 2010, she would also start drawing Social Security.

Social Security? Under the planned North American Union, expected to go into effect by 2010? Still 'solvent'?

I'm not banking on it. Neither should you.

Besides, there won't be USD anymore. The Amero will take its place. And at what exchange rate is anybody's guess at this point. It might be 1 to 1. Then again, it might not. Depends upon how nice the intl bankers feel toward us (and since when have bankers been known to be fair?... )

If we wait until 2010, I would be 64 and collecting an increased amount from SS, my wife would have SS and an increased pension from her job.

And we would almost certainly have more savings.

And, unfortunately, it is likely that, with the way things have been going, Thai Immigration will have also moved the goalposts yet even further, requiring everyone to show even more money up front, just for the priviledge of spending it here.

They have a relatively simple formula for doing this, too: just double it.

Now that you can bank on...

That is all wacko speak.

Social security is guaranteed for anyone over 60. Anyone over 45 really.

There will be no Amero. 99 percent of AmerOcans have never even heard of this wacko idea. If a politician suggested it, his political career would be over the moment the word Amero crossed his lips. He might as well propose mandatory gay marriage, at least that would be a more fun way to commit political suicide.

Edited July 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[TakingAVacation]

... only US$400 a month gets you a retirement visa ...

I trust you really meant a year?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Central American economies are more or less tied to the health of the US Dollar. And the whole region will likely fall under the influence of the NAU and the new Amero within a few short years from now.

How much will your Ameros buy then? It's anybody's guess.

Kinda iffy, if you ask me.

[PeaceBlondie]

Amero, Schmero; ignore the wacko nonsense. Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras are cesspits; it might cost $400 a month for a fully armed security force, 24/7. For San Diegans, they could head south on Baja and find some crummy fishing village and live on $1,040 per month. Toll free numbers work free from Mexico. They could cross back and forth at will, with passports.

[jubby]

I'm only 42, and don't pretend to be full of wisdom and advice for a couple with your experience.

I won't pretend to have read all this thread either ;-)

But.....

I'm sat here in Thailand on my porch, Its a sunny day, The scenery is stunning, The 3 Kids are quiet for once, So I can here myself think, but unfortunately not clearly ;-)

I can live here on 35K with the Kids (but don't as I'm a bit of a consumer). My inlaws (outlaws rather) live on 4K a month !.

I live in Chiang Rai, Its much cheaper than Chiang Mai. The Quality of life here in my opinion is second to none, The Climate is very agreeable.

If you don't enjoy your Job, and more importantly if its stressful, than get the .... out of there ! ;-) ... the worst thing that can happen is that you may have to return to the Good O'l US of A ;-)

Rent a place cheaply, rents here in Chiang Rai can be very, very cheap if you look around. Don't invest any of your money here.

Don't worry about the ViSA's , They always keep moving the Goalposts, Thats just the way it is. But there always seems to be another way around things over here. Retired or not , you'll just be a tourist to the Thais. .... Tourism is important to the Thai's. ....... Enjoy your Holiday.

And enjoy your Twilight years

Jubby

[oswaldcassidy]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand, probably Chiang Mai, when we quit working. We are trying to decide when that will be. Sooner, or later?

We could do it as soon as September 2008 with 500K THB in the bank and a combined monthly income of 35K THB. We could squeak by on the retirement visa financial requirement with that. If we forego a planned trip to the region this year, we could have another 125K THB in the bank. After two years, our monthly income would increase to 55K THB. So, that's the "sooner" scenario.

Or, we could wait. If we retire in 2010, our monthly will be 65K THB and we should have an even million THB banked. That's the "later" scenario. Every year we put it off, our monthly retirement income goes up, and we bank more, but 2010 is as long as we will wait.

Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked?

And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long.

The sooner the better Thailand is a great place to retire too but to be blunt no amount of money can bye us our health so if your in the position to put 500k in the bank and have 35 k a month which is more than enough for chang mai retire now good luck and happy retirement

[sendbaht]

I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

You'll get bored in Chiang Mai. Have you considered Iraq?

Jim, you are ruthless, but very funny.

[Jingthing]

My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand, probably Chiang Mai, when we quit working. We are trying to decide when that will be. Sooner, or later?

We could do it as soon as September 2008 with 500K THB in the bank and a combined monthly income of 35K THB. We could squeak by on the retirement visa financial requirement with that. If we forego a planned trip to the region this year, we could have another 125K THB in the bank. After two years, our monthly income would increase to 55K THB. So, that's the "sooner" scenario.

Or, we could wait. If we retire in 2010, our monthly will be 65K THB and we should have an even million THB banked. That's the "later" scenario. Every year we put it off, our monthly retirement income goes up, and we bank more, but 2010 is as long as we will wait.

Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked?

And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long.

The sooner the better Thailand is a great place to retire too but to be blunt no amount of money can bye us our health so if your in the position to put 500k in the bank and have 35 k a month which is more than enough for chang mai retire now good luck and happy retirement

More than enough, eh?

What if one of them needed open heart surgery at Ram Hospital?

That 500K would get you really far, and don't assume they are insurable either.

[chinthee]

I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

You'll get bored in Chiang Mai. Have you considered Iraq?

Jim, you are ruthless, but very funny.

This may sound wacko, but it doesn't sound like you're afraid of anything, and in fact quite the stud, even if no longer young. WHY NOT consider using some of your other hard skills you acquired during your military and other fields and consider basing in Thailand and working in Iraq as a private contractor rotating in and out? It would give you a chance to make some very good money that would help you out a lot, because you need the help. You might be able to use some military contacts to find out some of the contractors now, or maybe someone on this board could help you out.

Not sure if that appeals to you at this stage in life or not...

[Oldboy]

This is really a great forum. Thanks for all the replies. There are certainly many points of view to consider, and I have learned a lot about retiring in Thailand, and in a way, about myself.

I have spent most of my life thrusting myself into situations and dealing with them, without much foresight. If I felt like doing something, I did it. If I felt like going somewhere, I went. I only considered consequences as they arose.

This is different. It's not just another adventure. Back in post #3 of this thread, twix38 suggested long term visiting to test the waters before making any commitment. That is starting to sound reasonable.

My BA is English. I have a TESOL certificate and enjoyed teaching. I started in Bangkok and Chiang Mai in the 80's, when it was a relatively uncrowded hustle, unlike now. In 1995-96 I took graduate courses and got a California state certificate and taught night school here for several years. I could dust that off. My wife is a Network Systems Administrator, but I don't know how that would apply in Thailand.

We are not prepared to sell our home here. The market is in the toilet and we owe a ton anyway. We can rent it to cover the payments and not much more. My wife's parents are still living, in their 80's and in failing health. We both actually have jobs we don't hate. San Diego is a pretty nice place to live.

We will be in the region again this November-December, and plan to spend time in Chiang Mai. I admit I have not been there since 1988, and I know it has changed dramatically. I have a feeling more will be revealed then, and in the next year or two.

We have friends returning later today from a fact-finding trip to Costa Rica-Panama-Nicaragua, and will be pumping them for their impressions, to respond to those who suggested Central America. And we are driving down to Ensenada for lunch and back up through Tecate today, and sure, Mexico is the obvious option, but there is just nothing like SEAsia, really. Is there?

Thanks again. This forum is an incredible resource. I'm sure I'm not the only one helped by the thoughtful and incisive replies this thread has generated.

[CWMcMurray]

I would wait another 2 years, it is worth it not to have to squeak by. What if you have anything unexpexted come up, do you really want to have to squeak by or eat into your savings? You retirement should be the time for you to relax and not have to worry so much. Plus if you look at the trend in exchange rate, your monthly income may not even be 35K by next year.

[present]

Retired at 50 Astral?? Did you won lotto or something? .I am also 50 but can't retire unfortunately.In Belgium we are getting our full pension payed at 65 .There is the possibility to quit earlier ,let us say from 55 years on,but than you loose a conciderable amount of money wich is in most cases not enough to meet the demands by the Thai government.They just want the rich "farangs" to come in, not the normal working people,altrough we have much more pension than the average Thai citizen.