5 hours ago, captpkapoor said:

While this may be true of a lot of (even educated) Thais, in my almost 50 years of work in various countries as well as working alongside various nationalities, I can honestly say that I've come across many Western (even educated !) people with very poor knowledge of international geography, history, cultures, languages and origins. The average newspaper is full of extremely local news, with barely a page devoted to international news - and that's for those who even bother to read a paper. 

Nowadays you do not need newspapers any more to be informed.

 

14 hours ago, AlfonsV said:

Nowadays you do not need newspapers any more to be informed.

 

Even more confusion without proper newspapers and fewer tv channels. 

I do agree that mainstream media can and often does reflect the views of the owner (read large industrial house/ media company/ host country), by reading a diverse and eclectic mix, one does get a better idea of the world at large. There are a lot of op-ed pages in good newspapers and their online websites. For example, The Economist. 

Anyway: my point was not so much about whether reading newspapers is good or not. I'm just saying that a lot of educated Westerners ALSO have not been educated sufficiently about the history, geography, cultures, languages, origins etc etc of the world.  

On 6/11/2023 at 1:41 AM, BritManToo said:

Back to the OP,

The same applies to history.

History is just part of it and one that I have indentified through various conversations.  The problem will I'm sure, apply to education in general.

On 6/10/2023 at 9:50 AM, LittleBear57 said:

When teaching it was amazing how many times the kids didn't show for a lesson. Asking why reasons were, Gone to Temple. Not finished scouting lesson. Have to visit nurse. Not back from swimming lesson. This was the whole class.

We used to have a similar problem, mainly hungover farang teaches to turning up to work Monday morning. Interestingly, never had this problem with the non-native speakers. Our kids are almost always in class. 

On 6/10/2023 at 3:09 AM, mikesil said:

I'm an MIT graduate and spent 50 years working in electronics and computers.  My wife and kids think I'm not smart enough to be the village idiot.  They set out one day to buy a computer --- spent a huge amount on an old, outdated, used computer.  About a year later, when the shortcomings were obvious even to them, they bought another one, this time new.  Then the new one had to go back for various fixes and upgrades, none of which really worked.  I was informed the other day, that it's time for a new computer.

 

Any suggestion that I be consulted before the purchase is always met with the universal response:  "you just don't understand Thailand".

 

I guess I don't.

 

Reminds me of the Thail girlfriend in England whom I bought a car for.  She was working in a restaurant, living away when I visited her.

Car brakes were metal against metal and barely stopped, yet she was determined to go down the motorway to work each day as car still "worked".

I had to take the keys and carefully drive it 50 meters to a brake place, I was very embarressed presenting the car in that state.

On 6/10/2023 at 2:12 PM, sabai-dee-man said:

When my wife first moved to the UK in the early 2000s, she discovered The History Channel. Not only was she glued to it, but very often I'd see her crying when it came to event regarding Burma and Thailand. She went on to run a local ex-armed forces social club, and became engrossed in western history, particularly WWII as my grandad was a D-Day veteran, and most of the club members were ex-WWII RAF. They're not all dumbarses... sometimes they just need to be shown the way.

 

Reminds me of a Thai girl I knew who was a solicitor in UK.  Came from a Hi-So family in Bangkok.

She was interested in world event and kept up with the news.  She got quite angry at Thais in general with their lack of desire to know anything outside of Thailand and embarressed by this too.

Most of the responses here are spot-on. I don't think there's any point in trying to identify the many root causes of ignorance, arrogance or the blasé approach to wisdom, knowledge, logic and the poor communication skills that Thais accept. They are raised to be like that. Nothing that you nor I might do will change that.

Young Thais don’t know who the Beatles  are or the Rolling Stones are believe it or not

On 6/9/2023 at 8:55 PM, KhaoYai said:

 

Over the years I've become aware of the lack of education in Thailand - especially in rural government schools.  I believe things are improving but when it comes to history, there seems to be a total lack of anything 'Western or European'.

 

It would be fair to say that kids in the UK are not taught much Asian history too but given that the Industrial Revolution, that changed the world faster in 250 years than it had previously changed in millennia, affected all countries.  I would have thought that even a basic understanding of what brought humans to where they are now would be at the core of history teaching in any country.  The same could be said about WW2 but I believe there are reasons for the lack of teaching on that.

 

Although I've been aware of it for a long time, what really kick started my interest in this matter came in a discussion with an ex wife who believed cars were invented in Japan.  From that stemmed a lot of questions (from me) such as where do you think steel comes from? Etc. etc. etc.  My then wife either didn't know the answers to most of my questions or her answers were rooted in Asia.

 

We have of course, moved on from the Industrial Revolution and countries large or small, Asian, Western or otherwise are all responsible for technological inventions and general progress.  However, it all began in England around 1750 and I do not say that with the slightest arrogance, its just a fact.

 

Why this is of interest to me is that I believe it helps to explain something I have often experienced.  Many times I've given advice to (Thai) family or friends and been totally ignored.  That advice has not come from any desire to appear smarter than the recipients, it comes from experience.  For example, I spent a large part of my working life in the motor trade, I'm a little behind the times now but I still have a broad knowledge of cars, bikes and most things mechanical.  Likewise with domestic construction - where I moved to after the motor trade.

 

Sometimes its more than being ignored, its a total dismissal but carried out (mostly) politely. The feeling that comes from it is 'you are a stupid farang, how could you know'?

 

For example, many years ago when I had no tools in Thailand, I took my car to a local garage for repair. I won't bore you with the details but I knew exactly what was wrong with it and how to fix it - I just didn't have any tools.  The garage seemd to be struggling to carry out the repair so I offered my assistance, telling them of my previous career.  This was dismissed and I was told that they knew what they were doing, it was just proving more difficult than usual. The struggling continued until after several hours I decided enough was enough, walked into the workshop, picked up their tools and showed them how to do it.  Prior to that, the overall feeling that I was getting was that I was a farang, how could I know? When I left the garage I didn't get the feeling that I'd gone up in their estimation, it just felt like they thought I'd been lucky. I've had many similar experiences since.

 

The ex that thought cars were invented in Japan also seems to believe that the much of what we have in the modern world began in Japan or Asia.  She thought that Toyotas, for example, are a Thai car, totally built in Thailand - although she accepted that the parent company is Japanese.

 

So, have others had similar experiences and can our teaching community shed any light on this?  I suspect it comes from the basic lack of any Western and thus 'World' history in Thai education.  I'm not engaging in any form of one-upmanship here, I'm just stating facts.  Whilst its a fact that the roots of industry began with the Industrial Revolution, nobody can deny that those roots have been refined over the years and utilised/improved all over the world. Some of the finest products now come from Asia and technology has no borders, but the attitude in Thailand still seems to be that of 'you are a farang, you know nothing'.

 

Can it be explained by a lack of education, is it arrogance - or both?

 

 

KhaoYai has made some interesting observations. I agree with many of the observations as I deal with them on a daily basis as so do others that have made comments here. Many comments put it down to lack of education, arrogance, and some excuse it as Thai culture. Some have defended this behaviour and tried to turn the tables by claiming that "farangs" are worse, or, because "farangs" are not Thai, then if we don't like it, we can go back to where we came from. Gaslighting is strong in these forums.

I have always believed that everyone has the right to point out bad behaviour. For example, when living in Korea, every few seconds, one could hear "krrrpp-hrupppp-phupp!" as someone sucked snot from their nose into their mouth and spat it out. Nearly every Korean smokes, blows their stink in your face, even while eating in a restaurant. Korean men generally like to posture, show their manhood while getting a cigarette out. How they then light it speaks volumes. How they speak to you and how they expect subservience is appalling - at least to me. It kind of reminds me of my German uncle who put on a real show to light up a cigarette, how he'd inhale the first smoke to the depths of his lung and then exhale through his mouth and nose as he moved his head from left to right with added sound effects to further dramatize the show. He also demanded children don't speak until spoken to...

Regardless of anti-smoking laws, or lack thereof, I find this behaviour disgusting. Half of my Korean students had either serious skin issues, asthma or both due to the extreme pollution. One of them died in hospital from asthma and cancer. The situation that really got me going was when a guy in blue overalls and breathing mask deliberately sprayed me from top to bottom with white powder called Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT) as I was unlocking my scooter. He stopped and sprayed it all over me and laughed. Korea was one of the few countries then that still allowed DDT. I approached the guy and told him to stop spraying me with it. His grin was extremely hearty and never ending. As he walked off, he was still laughing. Later that day, when I walked on the footpath with my wife, I heard the usual "krrrpp-hrupppp-phupp!" and saw how a gorby landed on my wife's foot. A few months before that, my wife and I came across a group of old Korean men cheering on a younger Korean at the bus stop to smash another woman's head into a Coke machine and later into the tiled floor of the bus platform. She was trying to protect her infant. He pulled her long black hair back and forth and applied pressure to force her head onto the floor.

Why this long intro? To prevent gaslighting and insults, I'd like to highlight that bad behaviour is just that - bad behaviour. Regardless of who observes and points out the bad behaviour, and regardless of the nationality of the culprit, it doesn't make the behaviour less bad because a non-Thai pointed it out. Thais are not immune to criticism.

Just because I'm not Thai doesn't make my observations less valid or less urgent. I have never seen a Thai behave even close to the behaviour depicted above. I give credit to all Thais for this. Then again, my wife's cousin had her arm broken by her now ex-husband. The sister of a friend lost her baby after her drunk husband punched her in the stomach and another friend was tossed across the room by her father when she was six years old. She was unconscious for 48 hours. She now has brain damage. I've had my share of experiences that show that Thailand is morally and legally extremely underdeveloped (of course, there are far worse countries than Thailand) and anyone has the right to point out the bad behaviour. Yep, Thais often ignore, dismiss, turn infantile when confronted with legitimate criticism or even just well meant suggestions. What I have noticed is that if I point out bad Thai behaviour, my wife will always, in the first instance defend the Thai who did the wrong thing. Only after her children tell her that they agree with me, does my wife humbly apologise to me and admit that I was right.

I always say that there is good and bad in every country. I try and focus on the good. But if bad behaviour affects me, I will point it out.

I like my well rounded education, but TBH, most I learned doesn't have a practical use in day to day life. Basically learned how to apply for a low paying job back in the day.

School district had just started teaching 'trades', a year or so prior to options to choose, which I didn't take advantage of.

Great to know, personal choice, but history, Spanish, French, Latin, English Lit, art & music were totally useless for everyday life.

On 6/10/2023 at 12:06 PM, Andycoops said:

Lack of education and ignorance.

The history I learned in school was shallow and lacked balance, and believe there is not one country who are not protecting their own history.

History is shaped by country, culture, politics, religion, and by who tells the story.