Work Permit Question: Will open my business when I have a work permit. Must hire 2 Thais for 2 months before I get work permit? What will my employees do for 2 months if the business isn't open yet?

[creative1000]

Work Permit Question: Will open my business when I have a work permit. Must hire 2 Thais for 2 months before I get work permit? What will my employees do for 2 months if the business isn't open yet?

 

Surely many others have run into this same predicament? A few of those weeks can be used for training new employees while the business is closed. That still leaves many unused weeks left.

Thai wife (already has a full-time office job) says just open the business early and she'll manage employees via phone, Line app, or "work from home" at our business a few days a week.
But this makes me nervous if theres a technical issue during work hours that requires my expertise I won't be able to help. 

 

 

[Bill97]

Take a nice vacation with your employees.

[flyingtlger]

train....

[sirineou]

I dont think you need a work permit  for opening the business'  you can open the business and you can be the director,  i but you can't work there until you get a work permit.  

Consult a lawyer as to what activities are covered under the term "Director" in your particular business, 

" It is possible to be a director of a Thai Limited Company without holding a work permit, but you cannot take part in any management of the company "

https://www.sunbeltasia.com/registering-a-new-company-in-thailand

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by sirineou

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, flyingtlger said:

train....

Agree training, take advantage of this 'delay' to train and retrain what you want your customers to experience / what feeling you want your customers to have about the service they have received, etc. And what that means in terms of the attitudes and behaviours, priorities and actions of your staff.

Ensure you staff know very well and they can describe what a happy/delighted customers 'looks like'.

Edited July 5, 2023 by scorecard

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Agree training, take advantage of this 'delay' to train and retrain what you want your customers to experience / what feeling you want your customers about the service thay have received, etc. And what that means in terms of the attitudes and behaviours and actions of your staff.

Ensure you staff know very well and they can describe what a happy/delighted customers 'looks like'.

Can you train your employees yourself without a work permit? In general, I do not think so.

[scorecard]

45 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Can you train your employees yourself without a work permit? In general, I do not think so.

Point taken, but he could discuss this at length with his Thai wife and/or a well trusted Thai person who will be in a senior position when the business is operational. This would also ensure the snr. person is quite aware of / knowledgeable about customer service / delighted customers.

 

In my experience repeating simple  phrases to staff like 'good customer service' produces very little. The staff needs to know exactly what they must do to generate the good service. Role play is often good.

Edited July 5, 2023 by scorecard

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Point taken, but he could discuss this at length with his Thai wife and/or a well trusted Thai person who will be in a senior position when the business is operational. This would also ensure the snr. person is quite aware of / knowledgeable about customer service / delighted customers.

 

In my experience repeating simple  phrases to staff like 'good customer service' produces very little. The staff needs to know exactly what they must do to generate the good service. Role play is often good.

Actually, role play, where you enter the business as a customer, and subsequently provide feedback to your wife on the customer experience, seems like something you could legally do without a work permit.

[FriendlyFarang]

8 hours ago, creative1000 said:

Work Permit Question: Will open my business when I have a work permit. Must hire 2 Thais for 2 months before I get work permit? What will my employees do for 2 months if the business isn't open yet?

 

Surely many others have run into this same predicament? A few of those weeks can be used for training new employees while the business is closed. That still leaves many unused weeks left.

Thai wife (already has a full-time office job) says just open the business early and she'll manage employees via phone, Line app, or "work from home" at our business a few days a week.
But this makes me nervous if theres a technical issue during work hours that requires my expertise I won't be able to help. 

 

 

2 months 555

The absolute minimum is 3 months before you could apply for one, and this is if everything goes smooth.

They require the income tax return from your company, which is done at the end of a financial year, which is usually the end of the calendar year. You can do it sooner though, but if you want to do it a few days after you opened the company, I'm not sure if this is possible.

You have to register for VAT, and you need to file VAT at least for 3 months, because they want to see the last 3 VAT reports. And these VAT reports shouldn't just be empty reports, without any income or expenses, because they want to see proof that your business is actually operating.

They also want to see that you paid social insurance for your 2 (or if not married 4) employees for 3 months. You can negotiate regarding full time or part time employees, because there is actually no written rule that they have to be full time employees, it just states the number of employees.

 

So the business has to be operating for at least 3 months before you can apply for a work permit.

Immigration as well as department of employment are aware of this though. I was in the same situation, and both told me that they understand that I just can't apply for a non-B visa or work permit in the first few months after opening the company, and they don't mind.

[OneMoreFarang]

28 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

So the business has to be operating for at least 3 months before you can apply for a work permit.

It seems the 3 months are no fixed requirement.

I am in a similar situation right now and my accountant told me there have to be social security payments for the employees (and maybe tax, I am not sure). But according to that accountant she should be able to prepare the documents for me to apply for a Non-B visa and work permit about 1 month after the employment of the employees start.

For me this is in the middle of Bangkok. 

[FriendlyFarang]

41 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems the 3 months are no fixed requirement.

I am in a similar situation right now and my accountant told me there have to be social security payments for the employees (and maybe tax, I am not sure). But according to that accountant she should be able to prepare the documents for me to apply for a Non-B visa and work permit about 1 month after the employment of the employees start.

For me this is in the middle of Bangkok. 

I just checked the documents again which they gave me, these are "must haves", and official documents:

Immigration (non-B visa conversion, as well as extension for working):

Withholding income tax return (this is for your employees) for the last 3 months.

VAT filing for the last 3 months.

 

Department of employment for the work permit:

Social insurance payment for the last month.

VAT filing for the last 3 months.

 

Then in addition to this both told me that they want to see that the company is actually operating, so if I would submit VAT filing without any income or expenses they would not approve visa or work permit.

 

Regarding "my accountant told me": I started my company last year, I'm currently at accountant number 5. The previous ones didn't even know much about how to do regular company stuff or how to do taxes, some of them also offered to help me with visa stuff... forget it.

 

Is your company vat registered yet? You will then get this document:

This is also required for visa/work permit, took 6 weeks from registering for VAT until they sent me this document.

Edited July 5, 2023 by FriendlyFarang

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, FriendlyFarang said:

I just checked the documents again which they gave me, these are "must haves", and official documents:

Immigration (non-B visa conversion, as well as extension for working):

Withholding income tax return (this is for your employees) for the last 3 months.

VAT filing for the last 3 months.

 

Department of employment for the work permit:

Social insurance payment for the last month.

VAT filing for the last 3 months.

 

Then in addition to this both told me that they want to see that the company is actually operating, so if I submit would submit VAT filing without any income or expenses they would not approve visa or work permit.

 

Regarding "my accountant told me": I started my company last year, I'm currently at accountant number 5. The previous ones didn't even know much about how to do regular company stuff or how to do taxes, some of them also offered to help me with visa stuff... forget it.

 

Is your company vat registered yet? You will then get this document:

This is also required for visa/work permit, took 6 weeks from registering for VAT until they sent me this document.

I wrote what I heard from my accountant, and what two other lawyers told me who regularly open companies with farangs who need visa and work permit.

Now my VAT registration is in progress and soon the employees will be registered.

I will find out in the next couple of weeks how long it takes.

IMHO one big issue in Thailand is always that what is officially required is not necessarily what is really required - for any official business.

 

Some time ago I wanted to get a Thai driver license. I read about all the requirements on their website. And then I spend time and money to get my original driver license translated and that translation certified. And then I actually visited that office. They were not interested in the documents which they said on the website they needed. In my case they preferred the expired English version of my international license instead of the official translation of my original not expired license.

I know this thread is not about a driver license. But it's about which documents are required. And maybe the regulations are not as strict as you think.

Or maybe I will find out in 2 months that it takes at least 3 months. Let's see.

[creative1000]

14 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

2 months 555

The absolute minimum is 3 months before you could apply for one, and this is if everything goes smooth.

They require the income tax return from your company, which is done at the end of a financial year, which is usually the end of the calendar year. You can do it sooner though, but if you want to do it a few days after you opened the company, I'm not sure if this is possible.

You have to register for VAT, and you need to file VAT at least for 3 months, because they want to see the last 3 VAT reports. And these VAT reports shouldn't just be empty reports, without any income or expenses, because they want to see proof that your business is actually operating.

They also want to see that you paid social insurance for your 2 (or if not married 4) employees for 3 months. You can negotiate regarding full time or part time employees, because there is actually no written rule that they have to be full time employees, it just states the number of employees.

 

So the business has to be operating for at least 3 months before you can apply for a work permit.

Immigration as well as department of employment are aware of this though. I was in the same situation, and both told me that they understand that I just can't apply for a non-B visa or work permit in the first few months after opening the company, and they don't mind.

Thank you for sharing these. I'll mention this to our lawyer and accountant to prepare 3 months for VAT and Social Insurance and not wait to the last minute. Would rather spend the extra money to open early, than be late of our target opening date.

What were you able to do for 3 months without a work permit?

[creative1000]

17 hours ago, BritTim said:

Actually, role play, where you enter the business as a customer, and subsequently provide feedback to your wife on the customer experience, seems like something you could legally do without a work permit.

This is very good advice. We'll probably also get a bunch of "test" customers (wife's friends) to come over often and give feedback. Completely agree, only through practice (not theory) will training be engrained.

 

Also hoping to develop a strong work culture with good values (hard working, kind, proactive, etc) so that it doesn't fall into the bare minimum we see at some shops where all the employees are playing on their phone and ignore the customers when the boss is gone.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, creative1000 said:

What were you able to do for 3 months without a work permit?

Maybe that would be a survey here, but I wonder how many people who work in Thailand were ever asked to present their work permit. I work here for >20 years and nobody ever asked me at work (in my office, in any customers offices, or at home).

I needed the work permit from time to time i.e. to open a bank account. But that was obviously up to my own timing.

 

If there is nobody out there who wants to bring you into trouble, then I think the chance is very low that anybody will check. 

[FriendlyFarang]

29 minutes ago, creative1000 said:

What were you able to do for 3 months without a work permit?

I don't run a shop or restaurant which has walk in customers, so the things that I am doing, or were doing, are not visible to the public.

 

Do they actually randomly check foreigners for work permits etc.? I think this hardly ever happens. I assume they only check if somebody complains.

So be nice to everybody around you, respect them etc. so that nobody will complain about you.

If you start a business which is in competition to other businesses nearby, then this could of course cause problems because nobody likes rivalry.

Thais do hardly know anything about visas, work permits, etc. though. So unless you tell them that you are working without work permit, they probably won't even have this thought.

Are you in local competition with other foreign owned/managed businesses? If not, there is really not much to worry about.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, creative1000 said:

This is very good advice. We'll probably also get a bunch of "test" customers (wife's friends) to come over often and give feedback. Completely agree, only through practice (not theory) will training be engrained.

 

Also hoping to develop a strong work culture with good values (hard working, kind, proactive, etc) so that it doesn't fall into the bare minimum we see at some shops where all the employees are playing on their phone and ignore the customers when the boss is gone.

My own experience is that it is very difficult to find good Thai managers but, with a little training, Thais (especially women) tend to be excellent customer facing employees (better, on average, than Westerners).  As with anywhere in the world, the key is staff retention. Be willing to pay a little more than the market average, and find opportunities to publicly reward good work with cash bonuses. Be careful how you do it when it is necessary to correct generally good employees. Thais can be very sensitive to criticism.