31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Nothing on votes for women or allowing slavery?  You think slavery should have been legitimized in the US Constitution?  You praise the founding fathers for doing so?  Your lack of ethics is stunning.

I do not believe slavery was legitimized in the US Constitution. 

 

Was it common for women to vote in other countries in the 1700s? 

 

Was it common for slavery to be illegal in other countries in the 1700s? 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not believe slavery was legitimized in the US Constitution. 

 

Was it common for women to vote in other countries in the 1700s? 

 

Was it common for slavery to be illegal in other countries in the 1700s?

And you accuse me of a stunning lack of knowledge about the Constitution.

 

"Although the United States Constitution did not use the words "slave" or "slavery", it explicitly protected American slavery in at least five articles and indirectly protected the institution elsewhere in the document."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_Constitution

 

It was not common for anyone to vote in other countries in the 1700's.

 

Slavery was legal in colonies while illegal in most of Europe in the 1700's.  It was also illegal in many of the 13 states.

 

All that aside, it is clear that what was accepted in the 18th century is not acceptable now.  The US Constitution has had to adapt to the evolving needs of the country.  The fact that two of the worst Presidents in US history were elected this century in spite of losing the popular vote is evidence that it's time to get rid of the outdated artifact of the Electoral College.

25 minutes ago, heybruce said:

And you accuse me of a stunning lack of knowledge about the Constitution.

 

"Although the United States Constitution did not use the words "slave" or "slavery", it explicitly protected American slavery in at least five articles and indirectly protected the institution elsewhere in the document."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_Constitution

 

It was not common for anyone to vote in other countries in the 1700's.

 

Slavery was legal in colonies while illegal in most of Europe in the 1700's.  It was also illegal in many of the 13 states.

 

All that aside, it is clear that what was accepted in the 18th century is not acceptable now.  The US Constitution has had to adapt to the evolving needs of the country.  The fact that two of the worst Presidents in US history were elected this century in spite of losing the popular vote is evidence that it's time to get rid of the outdated artifact of the Electoral College.

And this is the country that proudly calls itself the greatest democracy in the world. It doesn’t seem very democratic to me, though, that a president can be ‘chosen’ when they get (significantly) less votes than their opponent.
Also, this whole electoral college system was almost abused and highjacked after the 2020 election, when fake electors were ‘chosen’ and Trump and his entourage tried very hard to overthrow the result of a legitimate election, among other things by claiming that the vice-president had the authority to overturn the election. And they almost succeeded. It’s a mystery to me how all those coup plotters haven’t been tossed in jail yet. 

4 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

And this is the country that proudly calls itself the greatest democracy in the world. It doesn’t seem very democratic to me, though, that a president can be ‘chosen’ when they get (significantly) less votes than their opponent.
Also, this whole electoral college system was almost abused and highjacked after the 2020 election, when fake electors were ‘chosen’ and Trump and his entourage tried very hard to overthrow the result of a legitimate election, among other things by claiming that the vice-president had the authority to overturn the election. And they almost succeeded. It’s a mystery to me how all those coup plotters haven’t been tossed in jail yet. 

Yes, the U.S. is certainly not a DIRECT democracy. It's democratic constitutional republic. Meaning it's a representative democracy. The idea is to make progress over time.  The current fascist Magadonian republican party is taking the country rapidly backwards. This needs to be fought aggressively or much more will be lost probably permanently. 

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, the U.S. is certainly not a DIRECT democracy. It's democratic constitutional republic. Meaning it's a representative democracy. The idea is to make progress over time.  The current fascist Magadonian republican party is taking the country rapidly backwards. This needs to be fought aggressively or much more will be lost probably permanently. 

Lot of red states are already passing ridiculous backward laws, like book bans, ‘don’t say gay’, and the latest gem in the great state of Florida, where teachers are now required by law that if they teach about slavery, they have to add that slaves were learning valuable skills. The idiocy of those right wing anti-woke warriors knows no bounds. 

54 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Lot of red states are already passing ridiculous backward laws, like book bans, ‘don’t say gay’, and the latest gem in the great state of Florida, where teachers are now required by law that if they teach about slavery, they have to add that slaves were learning valuable skills. The idiocy of those right wing anti-woke warriors knows no bounds. 

It's all about racism. Teach anything except the truth.

31 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's all about racism. Teach anything except the truth.

Who decides the truth?

11 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Who decides the truth?

This mirrors a propaganda tactic of the Kremlin.

Truth is not knowable. 

May as well not even try. 

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This mirrors a propaganda tactic of the Kremlin.

Truth is not knowable. 

May as well not even try. 

in the movie Shooter, the crooked senator says " the truth is what I say it is" 

 

Like that?

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

in the movie Shooter, the crooked senator says " the truth is what I say it is" 

 

Like that?

Well, it seems like that’s the Republican way these days. Make outrageous claims and not back it up with any facts or evidence. 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

And you accuse me of a stunning lack of knowledge about the Constitution.

 

"Although the United States Constitution did not use the words "slave" or "slavery", it explicitly protected American slavery in at least five articles and indirectly protected the institution elsewhere in the document."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_Constitution

So why do you not explain it? I don't doubt I can find numerous links that will pretend to support any leftist position, but I can never find a leftist (or a "centrist" such as yourself) that can ever actually explain anything. 

 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

It was not common for anyone to vote in other countries in the 1700's.

Okay, 1800s 

 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Slavery was legal in colonies while illegal in most of Europe in the 1700's.  It was also illegal in many of the 13 states.

I was legal in Briton until 1834, France until 1848, Sweden 1847, Denmark 1848 etc. 

 

Yes, abolishing slavery in the US was difficult, and it took the Republicans until 1865 to get it done. 

 

 

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

All that aside, it is clear that what was accepted in the 18th century is not acceptable now.  The US Constitution has had to adapt to the evolving needs of the country.  The fact that two of the worst Presidents in US history were elected this century in spite of losing the popular vote is evidence that it's time to get rid of the outdated artifact of the Electoral College.

Obama and Biden both won the popular vote. 

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Who decides the truth?

A board of educators. Curricula are generally set by consensus among educators? No one person can ever decide what is truth and what is lies. That's why slogans like "fake news" are meaningless and fact checking is meaningful.

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A board of educators. Curricula are generally set by consensus among educators? No one person can ever decide what is truth and what is lies. That's why slogans like "fake news" are meaningless and fact checking is meaningful.

That's hilarious. Who does the fact checking? Not STEM majors....

Just now, Yellowtail said:

That's hilarious. Who does the fact checking? Not STEM majors....

Anybody who wants to do some fact checking. They aren't immune to getting called out either. In the end, consensus is always the truth if there are sufficient people from diverse sources doing the checking.

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So why do you not explain it? I don't doubt I can find numerous links that will pretend to support any leftist position, but I can never find a leftist (or a "centrist" such as yourself) that can ever actually explain anything. 

 

Okay, 1800s 

 

I was legal in Briton until 1834, France until 1848, Sweden 1847, Denmark 1848 etc. 

 

Yes, abolishing slavery in the US was difficult, and it took the Republicans until 1865 to get it done. 

 

 

Obama and Biden both won the popular vote. 

What are you confused about?  The original US Constitution allowed slavery, denied women and many others the vote, and used to Electoral College to keep those who were allowed to vote from electing anyone the those that considered themselves the elite of society from electing anyone these self-proclaimed elites considered unacceptable.

 

Fortunately the Constitution allowed for change.  Slavery was abolished and women given the vote.  The states changed the rules on elections so the Electoral College no longer thwarts the stated will of the states' voters, but the smaller states did not give up their disproportionate influence in Presidential elections and the Senate.  This has resulted in the disastrous Presidencies of W. Bush and Trump. 

23 hours ago, heybruce said:

There you go, retreating from your claim about the founding fathers.

No... the founding fathers had it right when they set up the electoral process... which is the topic... I would be glad to discuss your diversions one at a time just start the topic that you choose to discuss

16 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Who decides the truth?

Are you kidding?on this particular subject about whitewashing slavery?it’s a crime what DeSantis is trying to do and it’s obviously a troll no more no less 

14 hours ago, ozimoron said:

A board of educators. Curricula are generally set by consensus among educators? No one person can ever decide what is truth and what is lies. That's why slogans like "fake news" are meaningless and fact checking is meaningful.

Galileo needed some fact checkers then.

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

Are you kidding?on this particular subject about whitewashing slavery?it’s a crime what DeSantis is trying to do and it’s obviously a troll no more no less 

I don't know about whitewashing, but slavery is a deep subject. Much more to it than bad white man kept slaves which I'm sure many want to limit the teaching.

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't know about whitewashing, but slavery is a deep subject. Much more to it than bad white man kept slaves which I'm sure many want to limit the teaching.

I strongly disagree to face our history is nessary to moving forward and grow towards a more egalitarian nation lying about it and sweeping it under the rug stops growth change and creates a deep festering animus it is a recipe for ruin

3 minutes ago, Tug said:

I strongly disagree to face our history is nessary to moving forward and grow towards a more egalitarian nation lying about it and sweeping it under the rug stops growth change and creates a deep festering animus it is a recipe for ruin

But to put the country's history of slavery into context you need to teach about slavery from the beginning of time. About the Black slave owners in the New World.

1 hour ago, Tug said:

I strongly disagree to face our history is nessary to moving forward and grow towards a more egalitarian nation lying about it and sweeping it under the rug stops growth change and creates a deep festering animus it is a recipe for ruin

I learned about how terrible slavery was in grade school, so I'm not sure what you're on about with whitewashing. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I learned about how terrible slavery was in grade school, so I'm not sure what you're on about with whitewashing. 

 

 

The question is what will kids in Florida learn about it? That slavery was really a vocational training program? With really strict mandatory attendance rules?

Edited July 23, 20232 yr by placeholder

59 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

But to put the country's history of slavery into context you need to teach about slavery from the beginning of time. About the Black slave owners in the New World.

No, the only slavery that matters is US slavery. 

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I learned about how terrible slavery was in grade school, so I'm not sure what you're on about with whitewashing. 

 

 

DeSantis is washing it down in the Florida school system were would you be if it was illegal to teach the truth about it?ignorant that’s were that’s not good especially on something as evil and vile as that it needs to be understood so more healing and understanding can take place

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

No, the only slavery that matters is US slavery. 

Hope that's sarcasm

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Galileo needed some fact checkers then.

Do you know what consensus means?

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

The question is what will kids in Florida learn about it? That slavery was really a vocational training program? With really strict mandatory attendance rules?

What's next from maga fascist DeSantis?

That holocaust survivors learned useful skills?

You almost couldn't make up this slavery was good vocational training absurdity, but heck, it's real.

Personally I think DeSantis has lost the plot and now has no chance of being nominated.

So someone else who isn't maga could step in but probably not. 

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What's next from maga fascist DeSantis?

That holocaust survivors learned useful skills?

You almost couldn't make up this slavery was good vocational training absurdity, but heck, it's real.

Personally I think DeSantis has lost the plot and now has no chance of being nominated.

So someone else who isn't maga could step in but probably not. 

“Ron DeSantis Wants to Sue Bud Light”

 

https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-wants-sue-bud-light-1814445
 

“Republican Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is considering launching a lawsuit against Bud Light for going "woke" by teaming up with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney.”

DeSantis is going all out in his war against ‘woke’. When asked a couple of weeks ago what his goals are if he becomes president, he said ‘to destroy the left and the woke ideology’. Nothing about affordable housing and health care, nothing about inflation, poverty, liveable wages, nothing about improving the infrastructure and the environment, nothing about breaking the power of big corporations. Republican lawmakers don’t give a flying **** about any of that, all they are interested in is waging culture wars.

Fortunately, DeSantis’s campaign seems to be tanking big-time, and his chances of becoming president are slim to none. Unfortunately for Florida, though, he will remain as their governor for another four years. 

 

Off-topic, troll post reported and removed.   Stay on topic and keep it civil.