Speed

[cdnvic]

Removed some off topic personal attacks. Suggest both parties log off for a bit so we don't have to take further action.

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:32 PM, save the frogs said:

a 19 yr old girl in US was going 160 clicks, crashed and her bf died.

she's going to jail. 

 

Tell the rest of the story... she intentionally wrecked because they were having a "spat"... it wasn't about speeding.

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/24/2023 at 11:43 PM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Tell the rest of the story... she intentionally wrecked because they were having a "spat"... it wasn't about speeding.

So, wouldn't that make it murder, rather than a car accident? 

[eisfeld]

41 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, wouldn't that make it murder, rather than a car accident? 

Correct. An accident is something unintentional. She had the intention to crash the car. Same as 9/11 was not a airplane accident.

[Skipalongcassidy]

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, wouldn't that make it murder, rather than a car accident? 

Mackenzie Shirilla was convicted of murder in the July 2022 crash,

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:03 PM, eisfeld said:

Correct. An accident is something unintentional. She had the intention to crash the car. Same as 9/11 was not a airplane accident.

Sure, but "intent" to kill is murder.  Killing someone without the intent to kill them is manslaughter.  As for a "real" car accident, that comes down to culpability. Eg.  speed, drugs, alcohol, negligence etc. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:24 PM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Mackenzie Shirilla was convicted of murder in the July 2022 crash,

Not familiar with the case. 

 

What I do know is, the American judicial system has such a backlog that the plea bargain system has seen many innocent people go to gaol. 

 

For example, you are "offered" 2 year prison time for a guilty plea, but go to court and lose, we will ask for 10 years.  If innocent, what would you do? 

[eisfeld]

33 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Sure, but "intent" to kill is murder.  Killing someone without the intent to kill them is manslaughter.  As for a "real" car accident, that comes down to culpability. Eg.  speed, drugs, alcohol, negligence etc. 

I'm not sure what you are argueing. The car was crashed intentionally, in no way can this be described as an accident. She was convicted of murder so the court established there was intent.

 

32 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not familiar with the case. 

So why argue?

 

32 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

For example, you are "offered" 2 year prison time for a guilty plea, but go to court and lose, we will ask for 10 years.  If innocent, what would you do?

Fight my case and not go to prison?

[KhunHeineken]

36 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I'm not sure what you are argueing. The car was crashed intentionally, in no way can this be described as an accident. She was convicted of murder so the court established there was intent.

I'm not arguing. 

 

In her police interview, say she said, "All I wanted to do was crash into his car so he couldn't use it."  That's very different to saying, "I wanted to crash into his car to kill him."

 

Do you see the difference, at law? 

 

36 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

So why argue?

 

Once again, not arguing.  Can you give some more information about this case? 

 

36 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Fight my case and not go to prison?

Easy to say from a keyboard, and not in handcuffs. 

 

Many innocent people take the plea deal, or do you deny this? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by KhunHeineken

[eisfeld]

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm not arguing. 

 

In her police interview, say she said, "All I wanted to do was crash into his car so he could use it."  That's very different to saying, "I wanted to crash into his car to kill him."

 

Do you see the difference, at law? 

She didn't crash into someone elses car. She intentionally crashed the car she was driving with her boyfriend (whom she killed) as passenger.

 

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once arguing.  Can you give some more information about this case? 

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Mackenzie+Shirilla&ia=web

 

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Easy to say from a keyboard, and not in handcuffs. 

 

Many innocent people take the plea deal, or do you deny this? 

I didn't deny this. I also don't see how it's related to the topic at hand.

Edited October 20, 2023 by eisfeld

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

She intentionally crashed the car she was driving with her boyfriend (whom she killed) as passenger.

And if she said it was an accident, or he grabbed her hair, punched her, domestic violence etc?  How would her case look then?

 

Point being, difficult to prove murder in this case if that was her story, or, she chooses not to be interviewed.

 

13 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I didn't deny this. I also don't see how it's related to the topic at hand.

Well, if you didn't deny it, I guess you also see an unjust judicial system in that bastion of freedom and democracy called, America. 

[eisfeld]

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

And if she said it was an accident, or he grabbed her hair, punched her, domestic violence etc?  How would her case look then?

Why are you coming up with these hypothetical situations? I really am not sure what to answer.

 

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Point being, difficult to prove murder in this case if that was her story, or, she chooses not to be interviewed.

The situation was clear. The evidence was overwhelming, they had CCTV, they had data recording from the car, they had evidence of her even threatening him with exactly this scenario! She was convicted. End of story. Why are you posting all these doubting scenarios when you didn't even read about the case?

 

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Well, if you didn't deny it, I guess you also see an unjust judicial system in that bastion of freedom and democracy called, America. 

The OP posted about cars being allegedly being crushed for speeding - in Australia. That turned out not to be the case. Then the story of the speeding teenager who killed her boyfriend was brought up. Now we are somehow going into the US judicial system being unjust? I don't see the connection.

Edited October 20, 2023 by eisfeld

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Why are you coming up with these hypothetical situations? I really am not sure what to answer.

It's not hypothetical.  It's about law, and it happens every day, all around the world. 

 

"Intent" is difficult to prove.  How does the prosecution actually prove what the accused was thinking at the time of the crime?  Eg.  Did they want to really kill them, or just mess them up?  If the accused does say, "I wanted to kill him" how can the prosecution prove "intent" to kill? 

 

15 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The situation was clear. The evidence was overwhelming, they had CCTV, they had data recording from the car, they had evidence of her even threatening him with exactly this scenario! She was convicted. End of story. Why are you posting all these doubting scenarios when you didn't even read about the case?

 

I was speaking in general.  Without the evidence you mention, say she just committed the crime, what would the prosecution have?  Very little. 

 

18 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The OP posted about cars being allegedly being crushed for speeding - in Australia. That turned out not to be the case. Then the story of the speeding teenager who killed her boyfriend was brought up. Now we are somehow going into the US judicial system being unjust? I don't see the connection.

Just the first one on a Google search.

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea-bargains-criminal-cases-justice#:~:text=In any given year%2C 98,from the American Bar Association.

 

"In any given year, 98% of criminal cases in the federal courts end with a plea bargain — a practice that prizes efficiency over fairness and innocence, according to a new report from the American Bar Association." 

 

Of course, you say you would fight your case.