Man kills shopkeeper in US state of California after disparaging Pride flag

[FruitPudding]

42 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Didn't happen. I couldn't find one instance of someone in the UK being attacked for flying the Union Jack (excluding N.I.).

You've clearly never experienced a Rangers vs Celtic match in Glasgow.

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Only one person was killed, by the way.

Yes and it happened to be a 66 year old female who was described as being a pillar of the community, happy now.................... 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Peabody]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Hyperbole. I don't see any frenzy of hate. Just a few isolated incidents. 

Ron DeSantis. Nonstop , one-man, incident.

[johnnybangkok]

49 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

You've clearly never experienced a Rangers vs Celtic match in Glasgow.

I am from Glasgow and I'm a Celtic fan and have been to many games so I can speak with some authority when I say that sort of incident has absolutely nothing to do with flying a Union Jack flag and everything to do with warped religous affiliations.

[JonnyF]

32 minutes ago, Peabody said:

Ron DeSantis. Nonstop , one-man, incident.

I've never seen a frenzy of hate from DeSantis. I've seen him stating biological reality.

 

Do you have any links to this frenzy of hate?

[FruitPudding]

10 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I am from Glasgow and I'm a Celtic fan and have been to many games so I can speak with some authority when I say that sort of incident has absolutely nothing to do with flying a Union Jack flag and everything to do with warped religous affiliations.

Exactly. I am not blaming the person for flying the Union Jack or wearing the wrong colours, obviously.

 

Point is: it happens.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Are you for real?

Yes, I am for real.

 

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

She has freedom of speech and sexuality.

Agreed. We have the freedom to do many things. Depending on the time and the place, not all of them are necessarily a great idea. Some of them invoke needless risk.

 

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Various religious groups condemn other people because of their imaginary friend and books written by humans.

Certainly religious groups have some strong beliefs on many types of behaviour. It's a good idea to be mindful of that before displaying symbols that are offensive to millions of people, then confronting them when one of them complains. 

 

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Glad the moron who did this is dead now, one bigot less.

I think due process and an appropriate punishment through the justice system would have been preferable. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, I am for real.

 

Agreed. We have the freedom to do many things. Depending on the time and the place, not all of them are necessarily a great idea. Some of them invoke needless risk.

 

Certainly religious groups have some strong beliefs on many types of behaviour. It's a good idea to be mindful of that before displaying symbols that are offensive to millions of people, then confronting them when one of them complains. 

 

I think due process and an appropriate punishment through the justice system would have been preferable. 

 

 

Do you have evidence that the killer was motivated by religious beliefs?

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Do you have evidence that the killer was motivated by religious beliefs?

I don't need any.

 

Because I have never claimed the killer was motivated by religious beliefs.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Victim blaming, obfuscation and conspiracy nonsense all in one post.

 

 

No. Just you not being able to see past your beliefs and bias.

 

The comment you quoted is well balanced. Whenever one takes a stance and decides to advertise such, one must also expect to upset people. That's the way it is.

 

I give full support to the LGBT communities. However, I keep my thoughts to myself when amongst strangers and would not fly any flags, wear t-shirts or armbands showing my support.

[FritsSikkink]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, I am for real.

 

Agreed. We have the freedom to do many things. Depending on the time and the place, not all of them are necessarily a great idea. Some of them invoke needless risk.

 

Certainly religious groups have some strong beliefs on many types of behaviour. It's a good idea to be mindful of that before displaying symbols that are offensive to millions of people, then confronting them when one of them complains. 

 

I think due process and an appropriate punishment through the justice system would have been preferable. 

 

 

You can believe what you want but keep it to yourself and don't try to impose it on others.

[JonnyF]

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

You can believe what you want but keep it to yourself and don't try to impose it on others.

Exactly my point throughout this thread. Couldn't have said it better myself in fact.

 

I'm glad it finally sunk in.

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I don't need any.

 

Because I have never claimed the killer was motivated by religious beliefs.

So why are you banging on about religion?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. Just you not being able to see past your beliefs and bias.

 

The comment you quoted is well balanced. Whenever one takes a stance and decides to advertise such, one must also expect to upset people. That's the way it is.

 

I give full support to the LGBT communities. However, I keep my thoughts to myself when amongst strangers and would not fly any flags, wear t-shirts or armbands showing my support.

Odd thing to say given my post and others I have made in this thread call out clear bias.

I look forward to hearing what motivated the killer.

 

I suspect it wasn’t simply a matter of being upset at seeing an LGBTQ+ flag.

 

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, FruitPudding said:

Exactly. I am not blaming the person for flying the Union Jack or wearing the wrong colours, obviously.

 

Point is: it happens.

I did mention in my original post saying 'excluding N.I.' (Northern Ireland) which is basically what the Rangers v Celtic fued is really all about. 

The original poster said 'But you can certainly be attacked for displaying the British flag in Britain' which most certainly wasn't about Rangers v Celtic and was more infering that 'ordinary' British citizens are getting targeted for flying the Union Jack. I was calling BS on that.  

[johnnybangkok]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I suspect it wasn’t simply a matter of being upset at seeing an LGBTQ+ flag.

 

 

 

I think I would disagree on this part Chomper.

I think the GOP and right wing media are on a crusade to demonise the LGBTQ community resulting in a 52% increase in anti-L.G.B.T.Q. hate crimes around the country in 2022 means it could easily just be someone 'being upset at seeing an LGBTQ+ flag'.

(https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/us/politics/anti-lgbtq-report-adl-glaad.html) 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

You can believe what you want but keep it to yourself and don't try to impose it on others.

Yeah! For Gods sake don't stick up for your beliefs or your morals or advocate for peace and love for fear of being attacked by intolerant, hate-filled bigots who can only opress through violence.

If we all did what you suiggested there would be no womans vote, slavery would still be a thing and no workers would have any rights anywhere in the world. 

[Baht Simpson]

The right to offend has been the stick that right-wingers have used to beat the militant left for many years.  As soon as that right is displayed as a Pride flag (in their minds at least) they abandon that principle.  The hypocrisy is stunning.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

45 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Yeah! For Gods sake don't stick up for your beliefs or your morals or advocate for peace and love for fear of being attacked by intolerant, hate-filled bigots who can only opress through violence.

If we all did what you suiggested there would be no womans vote, slavery would still be a thing and no workers would have any rights anywhere in the world. 

This woman got killed by an intolerant, hate-filled bigot.

Womans vote was not allowed by the bible.

Slavery was allowed by the bible.

Do you see a trend here?

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Exactly my point throughout this thread. Couldn't have said it better myself in fact.

 

I'm glad it finally sunk in.

You blame the victim of a murder because of your believes, what a joke.

[Baht Simpson]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You can believe what you want but keep it to yourself and don't try to impose it on others.

She was demonstrating her belief, which is her right to freedom of expression.  He turned up at her property with a gun, trespassed, then damaged her property, confronted her then shot and killed her.  But all you can see is her imposing her beliefs on him, of which there is no evidence.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by Baht Simpson

[Baht Simpson]

It'll be interesting to learn more about this man.  How you get so incensed over a bloody flag I'll never know. 

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

If he was a MAGA hat wearing redneck in dungarees, driving a Cadillac Deville draped in the confederate flag I dare say we'd have heard all about it by now. 

Well said. 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I am from Glasgow and I'm a Celtic fan and have been to many games so I can speak with some authority when I say that sort of incident has absolutely nothing to do with flying a Union Jack flag and everything to do with warped religous affiliations.

I was brought up in Bishopbriggs and have witnessed people being beaten up for flying a union jack. Granted, it was alcohol induced. 

I was brought up to dislike Catholics but I feel it was more a long standing resentment against the Irish rather than a religious thing. The religion became an excuse for the hatred of Irish taking our jobs and bringing down the moral standards, especially the navvies. 

Two men were jailed for trying to blow up Celtic Irish manager, Neil Lennon! 

Not religious. 

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I was brought up in Bishopbriggs and have witnessed people being beaten up for flying a union jack. Granted, it was alcohol induced. 

I was brought up to dislike Catholics but I feel it was more a long standing resentment against the Irish rather than a religious thing. The religion became an excuse for the hatred of Irish taking our jobs and bringing down the moral standards, especially the navvies. 

Two men were jailed for trying to blow up Celtic Irish manager, Neil Lennon! 

Not religious. 

Hard to bring down the “moral standards” of Bishopbriggs but I agree. Resentment masquerading as religion with a good splattering of tribalism. After all, Everyone wants to belong. 
Weve both seen how incendiary rhetoric can incite an illogical level of hatred and this GOP crusade doesn’t help. It invigorates the homophobe, the religious nutter, the right-right of right into this kind of abhorrent action. It’s handy for a cultural war though and that’s exactly why the GOP will keep on it mercilessly. Expect more or worse than this to come. 
 

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

this GOP crusade doesn’t help

This has got nothing to do with GOP.

 

 

[jak2002003]

America these days does not seem any different sometimes to some radical strick Muslim country. 

 

So much homophobia and racism there. 

 

It's not what the American dream was supposed to be.

 

Why can't people just be nice to each other and accept differences in opinions...we are not all the same and never will be.  

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

This has got nothing to do with GOP.

 

 

This has EVERYTHING to do with the GOP. Why do you think it’s headline news?

[JeffersLos]

54 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

the American dream

 Oh right, that.

 

You know why it's called the American dream, right?

 

Because you have to be asleep to believe it. 

[youreavinalaff]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Odd thing to say given my post and others I have made in this thread call out clear bias.

I look forward to hearing what motivated the killer.

 

I suspect it wasn’t simply a matter of being upset at seeing an LGBTQ+ flag.

 

 

 

I suspect it was what started it. Unfortunately there are those who cannot stand people having differing opinions to themselves 

 

You'd know all about that.