Trump vows to end ‘madness’ of EV push

[alex8912]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

You just don't get it. If, in the past a group has  voted at a much lower rate than previously, and now votes at a disproportionately higher rate, that changes the electoral math. It's such a simple idea to grasp, I don't understand why you reject it.

How many 18-24 year olds were able to just fill out a ballad MAILED to them post paid and drop it in a mailbox down the street in the 1960's and 1970's and 1980's ??  Now they CAN if they CARED!! They don't care! Nothing to grasp here. With your logic it should be easily 90% or more participation now. It's so easy to vote and 1/2 do not!  

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

How many 18-24 year olds were able to just fill out a ballad MAILED to them post paid and drop it in a mailbox down the street in the 1960's and 1970's and 1980's ??  Now they CAN if they CARED!! They don't care! Nothing to grasp here. With your logic it should be easily 90% or more participation now. It's so easy to vote and 1/2 do not!  

You've managed somehow to entirely miss the point. If a disproportionately higher percentage of 18-24 year olds turn out than previously and they tend to favor one party over the other more than what the total average is, that changes the electoral math. What about that don't you understand?

Edited September 8, 2023 by placeholder

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Why are you so deeply fascinated by American politics being a foreigner always trying to change opinions about things that don’t really concern you and as is so amply demonstrated by your own posts you strongly back Putin and the Russian federation’s attempts to exterminate the nation of Ukraine?just curious everyone is In titled to an opinion of course you just seem a bit over the top.Chris christy is definitely spot on about trumps obvious mental stability but that’s nothing new 

I don't think that nationality should disqualify someone from addressing an issue. A better case could be made for knowledgeability. What I don't understand is why someone to whom it has been repeatedly demonstrated that he's got his facts wrong, continues to post those same errors over and over again. 

[pacovl46]

10 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

So let me understand that..

 

1. We Generate electricity
2. We use it to electrolyse water into Hydrogen and Oxygen (25% loss)
3. We compress and store the hydrogen
4. We put it in trucks and bring it to garages
5. Cars take that Hydrogen under pressure and put it in their tanks
6. The cars then explode it and move around 2,000 moving parts (70% loss)

 

Or, isn't this better, it's certainly much more efficent...

 

1. We Generate electricity
2. We put it into our BEV's (4% loss)
3. It turns the motor (5% loss)

 

I am seeing a problem with your solution...

You conveniently forgot to mention all the silver and rare earth metals that need to be mined to produce the batterie packs for electric vehicles, which you wouldn't have to nearly as much with conventional combustion engines that use hydrogen as fuel. Plus, you don't have to wait for 5 hours until a charging plug becomes free at a charging station on your way to the beach or Mexico or wherever you wanna drive to on holiday because there's ten guys waiting in front of you, plus it doesnt take 45 minutes on top of your waiting time to recharge your battery to 85%, plus you won't have to fork out 8K or more when you eventually have to replace the battery pack on your EV, plus the value retention of a regular car will be higher because it won't be needing a new battery pack for 8K and they will be much easier to sell  too, becsuse no one wants to buy an EV only to have to invest 8K in a new battery pack, plus where do all the dead battery packs go? And the list goes on and on! 

Edited September 8, 2023 by pacovl46

[pacovl46]

23 hours ago, bignok said:

Last 2 years Tesla

So what? Sales fluctuate and that's true for every single car manufacturer and every single car model ever built! Why do you think manufacturers come out with new generations of their car models every few years? Because the current generation doesnt sell anymore. Tesla never had any generational updates of any of their models ever apart from the Roadster, but that one isnt one the matket, yet. Offering the same car for ten years without at least one or two facelifts like they used to back in the day doesnt fly anymore in this "fast" culture we have these days. 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by pacovl46

[bignok]

9 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

So what? Sales fluctuate and that's true for every single car manufacturer and every single car model ever built! Why do you think manufacturers come out with new generations of their car models every few years? Because the current generation doesnt sell anymore. Tesla never had any generational updates of any of their models ever apart from the Roadster, but that one isnt one the matket, yet. Offering the same car for ten years without at least one or two facelifts like they used to back in the day doesnt fly anymore in this "fast" culture we have these days. 

 

Tell someone else

[bignok]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

 

 

Actually, it's you who's doing the cherry picking. You arbitrarily chose a point in time that would create an image of a massive fall. Why not choose a starting point of 5 years ago? Or even 3?  Had you chosen a starting point 3 years ago, Tesla stock would show a 100% price increase.

I posted the graph. Shows a decline of 37% since late 2021. Nobody cares about 5 years ago. People look at graphs to see the all time high or high from recent years. Its been sold off.

 

 

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, bignok said:

I posted the graph. Shows a decline of 37% since late 2021. Nobody cares about 5 years ago. People look at graphs to see the all time high or high from recent years. Its been sold off.

 

 

"People" in general? Or "people" like you? Why not just from the beginning of 2023? Back then the price was about $108 dollars. Now it's at $248. Two can play the cherry-picking game.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

You conveniently forgot to mention all the silver and rare earth metals that need to be mined to produce the batterie packs for electric vehicles, which you wouldn't have to nearly as much with conventional combustion engines that use hydrogen as fuel. Plus, you don't have to wait for 5 hours until a charging plug becomes free at a charging station on your way to the beach or Mexico or wherever you wanna drive to on holiday because there's ten guys waiting in front of you, plus it doesnt take 45 minutes on top of your waiting time to recharge your battery to 85%, plus you won't have to fork out 8K or more when you eventually have to replace the battery pack on your EV, plus the value retention of a regular car will be higher because it won't be needing a new battery pack for 8K and they will be much easier to sell  too, becsuse no one wants to buy an EV only to have to invest 8K in a new battery pack, plus where do all the dead battery packs go? And the list goes on and on! 

You conveniently forgot that it takes 14 tanker trucks of hydrogen to be the energy equivalent of 1 tanker of gasoline. You also conveniently forgot that the cost of building a hydrogen filling station is far more than the cost of building a conventional station.

You also don't seem to know that ev batteries are lasting far longer than projected. Which is unfortunate for the ev battery recycling plants you also don't seem to know about. In fact even after an ev vehiicle has died, the batteries can still be used for energy storage. More bad news for ev battery recycling plants.

You also don't seem to know that rare earths aren't used for ev batteries but for the magnets. Tesla claims it will be making magnets that don't require rare earths. Also that while silver in an EV vehicle at most amounts to 50 grams. ICE vehicles require 3-7 grams of platinum in their catalytic converters.. Platinum is far scarcer than silver. Which is reflected in the fact that currently it costs almost 40 times as much.

As for wait times, who cares how long it takes to refill an EV battery at home? And the situation is not nearly so dire as you claim. You're just cherry-picking horror stories. If the experience was as bad as you claim it is, why are EV sales still growing as a percentage of the vehicle industry?

Edited September 8, 2023 by placeholder

[metisdead]

Some posts in violation of our Community Standards and the replies have been removed.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:31 PM, LS24 said:

New lithium mine in Belgium from European Minerals is about to float on the NASDAQ with an American SPAC to form critical metals. BMW have already signed an agreement for supply.

But to answer your question specifically. There is Lithium mining in the US right now. https://www.lithiumamericas.com/usa/thacker-pass/

and that's what it's all about- MONEY.

 

Using the current warming phase of climate to scare people into thinking EVs can save them, and then minting it from new industries set up to take advantage of the sheeple rushing to buy EVs.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and that's what it's all about- MONEY.

 

Using the current warming phase of climate to scare people into thinking EVs can save them, and then minting it from new industries set up to take advantage of the sheeple rushing to buy EVs.

And there was I thinking you had grasped the fact of the fossil fuel lobby spending vast sums on disinformation and buying politicians.

 

Alas no, you went with the disinformation.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and that's what it's all about- MONEY.

 

Using the current warming phase of climate to scare people into thinking EVs can save them, and then minting it from new industries set up to take advantage of the sheeple rushing to buy EVs.

I think you have that in reverse.

 

The sheeple are continuing to buy their ICE cars because they always did, and their mummies & daddies always did as did their nannas & grandads.

 

The enlightened have done the research and the test drives and are buying the new EV's.

[Tug]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think you have that in reverse.

 

The sheeple are continuing to buy their ICE cars because they always did, and their mummies & daddies always did as did their nannas & grandads.

 

The enlightened have done the research and the test drives and are buying the new EV's.

I beg to differ at least here in the states many have to drive long distances it’s lack of range expence of battery replacement access to and time to recharge for me personally I travel to Arizona a lot haul trailers and do a moderate bit of off road it doesn’t fit for my primarily vehicle as a second car yes I’m highly interested.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think you have that in reverse.

 

The sheeple are continuing to buy their ICE cars because they always did, and their mummies & daddies always did as did their nannas & grandads.

 

The enlightened have done the research and the test drives and are buying the new EV's.

LOL. I won't buy one because the charging infrastructure is pants, their range isn't good enough, the batteries are expensive and need replacing at a cost of thousands of $, the raw materials are dug up by exploited labour, and China controls the rare earth metals in them. Also, they are just far too expensive to even think about buying, and when the government starts imposing road user charges they won't be cheap to drive.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I won't buy one because the charging infrastructure is pants, their range isn't good enough, the batteries are expensive and need replacing at a cost of thousands of $, the raw materials are dug up by exploited labour, and China controls the rare earth metals in them. Also, they are just far too expensive to even think about buying, and when the government starts imposing road user charges they won't be cheap to drive.

The charging infrastructure in Thailand is superb, see graphic.

 

Range is more than double the distance between furthest charging stations, often 12x the distance (major highways). Batteries are predicted to last 20 years. Most EV’s now don’t use rare earths in their batteries, only Lithium and the USA has the largest deposit of Lithium, excluding seawater which has 80 billion tons of Lithium.

 

They are not expensive (look at NETA V) and as for road user charges, that is pure speculation.  If it does happen, ICE cars are likely to pay a higher charge. In the UK they are already considering higher parking charges for ICE vehicles.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The charging infrastructure in Thailand is superb, see graphic.

 

Range is more than double the distance between furthest charging stations, often 12x the distance (major highways). Batteries are predicted to last 20 years. Most EV’s now don’t use rare earths in their batteries, only Lithium and the USA has the largest deposit of Lithium, excluding seawater which has 80 billion tons of Lithium.

 

They are not expensive (look at NETA V) and as for road user charges, that is pure speculation.  If it does happen, ICE cars are likely to pay a higher charge. In the UK they are already considering higher parking charges for ICE vehicles.

This is the world news subforum, not something related to Thailand specifically. Not every country has an adequate charging infrastructure.

 

ICE vehicles won't pay higher road user charges unless diesel powered, in NZ at least. Petrol is taxed at the pump, and any government that makes petrol too expensive is likely to lose the next election given almost everyone still drives an ICE.

[JBChiangRai]

Governments all over the world are likely to make it unattractive to run ICE vehicles in the future, that means higher usage charges (taxes, direct & indirect) and inconveniences (EV only parking, ICE only on alternative days).

 

Speculation I admit, but we're already seeing these schemes in different countries around the world.

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I won't buy one because the charging infrastructure is pants, their range isn't good enough, the batteries are expensive and need replacing at a cost of thousands of $, the raw materials are dug up by exploited labour, and China controls the rare earth metals in them. Also, they are just far too expensive to even think about buying, and when the government starts imposing road user charges they won't be cheap to drive.

You need to update your information.

 

You’re singing of the 2018 song sheet.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

This is the world news subforum, not something related to Thailand specifically. Not every country has an adequate charging infrastructure.

 

ICE vehicles won't pay higher road user charges unless diesel powered, in NZ at least. Petrol is taxed at the pump, and any government that makes petrol too expensive is likely to lose the next election given almost everyone still drives an ICE.

The math changes when EVs and Hybrids become the predominant vehicles on the road.

 

In the meantime installation of the infrastructure is creating well paid in country jobs.

[LS24]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and that's what it's all about- MONEY.

 

Using the current warming phase of climate to scare people into thinking EVs can save them, and then minting it from new industries set up to take advantage of the sheeple rushing to buy EVs.

I have no comment on that aspect. I was simply highlighting that posts I quoted were inconsistent with the truth.

Do what you like with the facts that I posted. But until you or your opposition start giving some scientific data to back up your opinions, I'm not entering the bickering.

When posters use words like 'sheeple' or other name calling and catchphrases to make an argument, I'm relatively confident I will learn nothing from entering discussion.

Edited September 9, 2023 by LS24

[bignok]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

"People" in general? Or "people" like you? Why not just from the beginning of 2023? Back then the price was about $108 dollars. Now it's at $248. Two can play the cherry-picking game.

Millions of investors look at earnings and graphs.

 

You are just posting nonsense.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think you have that in reverse.

 

The sheeple are continuing to buy their ICE cars because they always did, and their mummies & daddies always did as did their nannas & grandads.

 

The enlightened have done the research and the test drives and are buying the new EV's.

Pretty sure they said that about cars in 1910.

[placeholder]

Just now, bignok said:

Millions of investors look at earnings and graphs.

 

You are just posting nonsense.

Yes. Millions of investors do. And those investors who decided to invest in the beginning of the New Year realized quite a spectacular appreciation on their investment. And those who invested before the big runup are still enjoying huge gains on their investment. What makes the point in time you picked so special?

[bignok]

Just now, placeholder said:

Yes. Millions of investors do. And those investors who decided to invest in the beginning of the New Year realized quite a spectacular appreciation on their investment. And those who invested before the big runup are still enjoying huge gains on their investment. What makes the point in time you picked so special?

Get a life.

[ozimoron]

Just now, bignok said:

Get a life.

I suppose you don't think Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world by market cap?

[bignok]

Just now, ozimoron said:

I suppose you don't think Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world by market cap?

I think EVs are overrated. Petrol cars sound better and perform better on hills. They are quick to refill. EV batteries are expensive.

 

I can't predict the next 30 years and neither can anyone else. People in 1938 thought AH was a nice guy. People in 2007 didnt see the gfc. People in 2020 didnt see covid coming. People in the 1970s thought oil would run out by 2000. People in the 1990s said y2k would crash the market. Humans are very bad at forecasts.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, bignok said:

I think EVs are overrated. Petrol cars sound better and perform better on hills. They are quick to refill. EV batteries are expensive.

 

I can't predict the next 30 years and neither can anyone else. People in 1938 thought AH was a nice guy. People in 2007 didnt see the gfc. People in 2020 didnt see covid coming. People in the 1970s thought oil would run out by 2000. People in the 1990s said y2k would crash the market. Humans are very bad at forecasts.

They didn't. I worked on Y2K upgrades in cobol. It was totally planned and nothing happened because the fixes were in place in time.

 

The oil projections were based on known reserves at the time. New drilling tech enabled more oil to be drilled. You are totally misinformed as usual.

Edited September 9, 2023 by ozimoron

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, bignok said:

Get a life.

Every time I catch you out, all you respond with is an empty insult. 

You've got nothing.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think you have that in reverse.

 

The sheeple are continuing to buy their ICE cars because they always did, and their mummies & daddies always did as did their nannas & grandads.

 

The enlightened have done the research and the test drives and are buying the new EV's.

I do recall Betamax owners thinking they were the enlightened ones and looked what happened to them