Foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan - do they need work permit?

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, JoseThailand said:

A see lots and lots of foreigners running workshops/seminars in Koh Phangan. Do they need a work permit to do that? Or is it not required as long as it's not considered "work"?

It is work and they need a work permit and the appropriate visa.

[FritsSikkink]

57 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

What if they don't get paid and do it for free?

Is still work

[Jelli]

17 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

I believe that is for attending, not running/organising

 

I recall it was for speakers but a one off. The way I understood it would be for a speaker to fly in - definitely not covering people organizing, promoting, profiting from the event. People living in Thailand and especially those not on B or even O visa

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, Jelli said:

The police will give it to you upon arrest.

 

Not been here long have you chancer?

Go and arrest everyone running workshops in Phangan.

[NoDisplayName]

7 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Work is what you do at your job. Perfect definition.

 

 

15 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then?

 

 

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

It is work and they need a work permit and the appropriate visa.

Can a Non-B visa be issued to run a seminar/workshop?

[FritsSikkink]

18 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

That's what I thought. I can't imagine anyone get a Non-B visa and work permit to run a seminar or workshop.

They rather brake the law.

[JoseThailand]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

 

 

 

Work is what you do at your job. A job is a place where you work. Any more questions?

[FritsSikkink]

Just now, JoseThailand said:

Can a Non-B visa be issued to run a seminar/workshop?

Yes, if you qualify. You need to have a business as you can't work freelance.

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, JoseThailand said:

Work is what you do at your job. A job is a place where you work. Any more questions?

Ummm.............YOU asked.

 

"Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then? "

 

 

[bigt3116]

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Are those organisers not attending?  I don't see any distinction made in the exemption regs.

Very true, but it does mention "any foreigner entering into Thailand to organize or attend any meeting or share any opinion or give a lecture or demonstration at any meeting or training or; aiming a visit or participating in a seminar are now no longer required to have a Thai Work Permit for such purposes."

To me this would mean that it was a kind of "one-off" thing, not a regular and/or permanent thing, as most of these hippy communes seem to be

 

[Jelli]

4 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Go and arrest everyone running workshops in Phangan.

They will. Indeed, they will. They not even need arrest. Just round up, grab the brown envelope and move on to next idiot.

 

What sort of people and courses? New age mumbo jumbo

 

$$$

[Jelli]

5 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Can a Non-B visa be issued to run a seminar/workshop?

Yes, your Thai employer would manage everything and the presenter would do their job. The employee would have a O, B visa, tax id and work permit.

[JoseThailand]

3 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Ummm.............YOU asked.

 

"Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then? "

 

Everything is clear to me now. 

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, Jelli said:

Yes, your Thai employer would manage everything and the presenter would do their job. The employee would have a O, B visa, tax id and work permit.

Why would I need an employer (or employees) to run my own workshop?

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, JoseThailand said:

Why would I need an employer (or employees) to run my own workshop?

Isn't it clear?

Running a workshop is "work".

The event site would be your "job".

[Jelli]

1 minute ago, JoseThailand said:

Why would I need an employer (or employees) to run my own workshop?

Because you cannot obtain a B visa otherwise. It must be done thru a Thai company or organization

 

There are no "independent contractor" B visas

[Jelli]

Just now, Jelli said:

Because you cannot obtain a B visa otherwise. It must be done thru a Thai company or organization

 

There are no "independent contractor" B visas

@JoseThailandif not clear here's a show stopper.

 

If you are on anything but a B or an O and working - you're illegal. Plain, simple

[JoseThailand]

 

2 minutes ago, Jelli said:

If you are on anything but a B or an O and working - you're illegal. Plain, simple

It's the matter of interpretation what "working" means. And what is actually considered "working" by the authorities. Somehow I doubt that anyone running seminars in Phangan has a work permit. 

[Hummin]

31 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

I'm not going to report anyone. You think the authorities are so stupid and don't have a clue what's happening there? Or there are not enough "concerned citizens" who could report them?

It is up to a point where locals benefits from the status q, until the more established have concerns about what's going on. 

[blackcab]

52 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Where is the definition of "occupation" or "job" then?

 

It's a good question, but Thai law doesn't go that route. Firstly Thai law defines work. The definition of work has been in existence for the last 45 years when the Foreigners Employment Act in Thailand (1978) became law.

 

Once the definition of work was made, the Foreigners Employment Act in Thailand (1978) stated in section 7 that (with some limited exceptions) a work permit is required to engage in work:

 

...an alien may engage in any work which is not prohibited by the Royal Decree issued under section 6 only upon receipt of a permit from the Director-General or official entrusted by the Director-General...

 

That's the route Thai law has taken. It doesn't need to define job or occupation.

 

As you can see, this law is not additive, it is deductive. This means the Labour Department does not have to list all types of work or labour that are regulated. Instead it is a matter for them to decide which acts a foreigner does that they will not consider to be work.

 

The law allows the Department of Labour complete discretion over what they deem to be offences, what they deem to be work and who they decide to prosecute or not prosecute.

[Jelli]

Just now, JoseThailand said:

 

It's the matter of interpretation what "working" means. And what is actually considered "working" by the authorities. Somehow I doubt that anyone running seminars in Phangan has a work permit. 

555

 

Yes, it is champ. But guess what it's not YOUR interpretation it's ...

 

The police

The courts

The Immigration officers

 

But you - not your interpretation. But hey, give it a go. Must be a fortune teaching torch spinning, circus tricks and Reiki

[JoseThailand]

3 minutes ago, Jelli said:

Yes, it is champ. But guess what it's not YOUR interpretation it's ...

 

Where do I say about MY interpretation? I said it's about the authorities' interpretation. 

[FritsSikkink]

22 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

Very true, but it does mention "any foreigner entering into Thailand to organize or attend any meeting or share any opinion or give a lecture or demonstration at any meeting or training or; aiming a visit or participating in a seminar are now no longer required to have a Thai Work Permit for such purposes."

To me this would mean that it was a kind of "one-off" thing, not a regular and/or permanent thing, as most of these hippy communes seem to be

 

Can you give a link to the law where that is stated please.

[JoseThailand]

5 minutes ago, Jelli said:

But hey, give it a go. Must be a fortune teaching torch spinning, circus tricks and Reiki

Hundreds of people are doing that already in Phangan. Of course, every one of them has a work permit and a proper visa.

[Jelli]

5 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Where do I say about MY interpretation? I said it's about the authorities' interpretation. 

Indeed.

 

As everyone but especially Blackcab has pointed out you're on shaky ground to start.

 

Best of luck. You'll need it when you're getting shaken down.

 

But as I have stated without an o or a B Visa regardless of what you believe you are illegal if you're working. . End of story

 

If you are so clear on this issue why do you keep going on about it?

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Jelli

[FritsSikkink]

9 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

 

It's the matter of interpretation what "working" means. And what is actually considered "working" by the authorities. Somehow I doubt that anyone running seminars in Phangan has a work permit. 

No, Working is defined in the labor law, which is very clear and leaves no room for interpretation. 

Yes, most of them are working illegally.

Look like you keep asking to find somebody to tell you that you can it legally, which you can't they way you like to do it. For a work permit you need either being employed or have your own business.

To get a work permit for while having your own business you need to employ 4 Thai staff for each foreigner you employ, including yourself.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, JoseThailand said:

Is there a legal definition of "work" as per the Thai legislation?

'exerting oneself productively' Applies whether paid or not.

[FritsSikkink]

4 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Hundreds of people are doing that already in Phangan. Of course, every one of them has a work permit and a proper visa.

No they are all breaking the law as said before. When will the quarter drop?

[JoseThailand]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

'exerting oneself productively' Applies whether paid or not.

Can I write my own book? That's 'exerting myself productively'.