Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[jayboy]

13 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The Revenue Code does not say that. If members wish to interpret that not filing a return is OK, just because no taxes are due and there is no penalty, that is their prerogative.

 

I don't think this can be left to the discretion of members.Some people will file (and have filed) even when do do so is unnecessary.Others with no taxable income will not file on the basis there is no significant penalty.Others including me will wait for specific RD guidance or failing that a steer from one of the leading accountancy firms.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I don't think this can be left to the discretion of members.Some people will file (and have filed) even when do do so is unnecessary.Others with no taxable income will not file on the basis there is no significant penalty.Others including me will wait for specific RD guidance or failing that a steer from one of the leading accountancy firms.

Since when is it necessary for us to interpret unwritten Thai Revenue Code rules and instruct members with what we think! It's not going to happen.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

31 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The Revenue Code does not say that. If members wish to interpret that not filing a return is OK, just because no taxes are due and there is no penalty, that is their prerogative.

Then stop stating it as a fact Mike - there is nothing I found in the Revenue Code or guidlines that states you must file a tax return even if you have no tax payable.  In fact my read is that you only file a tax return when you have income taxes to pay. 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Then stop stating it as a fact Mike - there is nothing I found in the Revenue Code or guidlines that states you must file a tax return even if you have no tax payable.  In fact my read is that you only file a tax return when you have income taxes to pay. 

Go argue with somebody else, I'm not interested..

[Mike Lister]

“All persons liable to tax are required to file a tax return”, See  Page 23 of Price Waterhouse Tax Consultants Thailand hand book linked below

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2022-23.pdf

 

 

“Liable to tax" in this context refers to a person’s general liability to taxation under the law of the  territory and has a broader meaning than “subject to tax” (see paragraph 59) in that in certain circumstances tax may not be paid on all of the income, regardless of a person’s general liability, due to a particular exemption for a type of income or similar provision under the law of that territory.

 

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/liable-to-tax

 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Since when is it necessary for us to interpret unwritten Thai Revenue Code rules and instruct members with what we think! It's not going to happen.

 

It's not necessary at all hence my suggestion we await some advice from those who have a firm grasp of the practicalities

[TroubleandGrumpy]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

“All persons liable to tax are required to file a tax return”, See  Page 23 of Price Waterhouse Tax Consultants Thailand hand book linked below

 https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2022-23.pdf

 

“Liable to tax" in this context refers to a person’s general liability to taxation under the law of the  territory and has a broader meaning than “subject to tax” (see paragraph 59) in that in certain circumstances tax may not be paid on all of the income, regardless of a person’s general liability, due to a particular exemption for a type of income or similar provision under the law of that territory.

 https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/liable-to-tax

 

That is NOT in the TRD Revenue Code or Guide - that is a claim made by a company that is paid to complete and file tax returns. 

Your claim is correct, if and only if, the TRD has officially stated that anyone who is a tax resident must file a tax return. 

IMO a person that has assesed themselves to not be 'required' to pay any income tax, is not required to lodge a tax return in Thailand (same as in Australia).  If an Expat is a tax resident thjey are 'liable' to pay income taxes, whjich means they are required to go through the self-assesmnet process (or hire a tax agent/accountant to do that). But IMO if that Expat is assessed to be not 'required' to pay income taxes, then they do not have to lodge a tax return. The operative words being 'liable', 'required to after assesment' and 'not have to' - you can if you want - up to you. But an Expat will need to apply for and get a TIN from TRD to be able to lodge a tax return - 70/80% of Thais do not have a TIN and do not lodge a tax return to prove they dont have to pay income taxes.  You seem to want all Expats who are tax residents to get a TIN and lodge a tax return. 

 

[Mike Lister]

I don't think that some of these challenges or comments are either useful or constructive.  The way the overview statement is written at present is more than adequate to get across the message that needs to be delivered at the start of the guide. Taxpayers are required to assess the funds they have received to determine if they are assessable to Thai tax and as long as the threshold is exceeded, file a tax return. There is no explicit statement to say they don't have to file a return if the obverse is true, if readers want to interpret things that way, that is fine with me but I'm not going to interpret it for them. PWC is a global tax firm with 1,600 tax people in Thailand and their guide supports what has been written so I'm quite satisfied the statements are suitable. I don't plan to make further changes to the overview statement unless somebody can produce a link that provides quotes and gives concrete reasons why I should. If people want to wait and see, that's fine too.

 

OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW

 

3)   Thai tax laws require Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods, with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year and who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via:

 

a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code;

b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40.

c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, pension etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

 

….…to assess their income for Thai tax and file a tax return, providing the  assessable income threshold has been exceeded. Thai-sourced income is always taxable in Thailand, wherever it is received and regardless of tax residence status. Foreign sourced income is subject to remittance, tax residency and other factors such as terms of a DTA.

[Mike Lister]

36 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

That is NOT in the TRD Revenue Code or Guide - that is a claim made by a company that is paid to complete and file tax returns. 

Your claim is correct, if and only if, the TRD has officially stated that anyone who is a tax resident must file a tax return. 

IMO a person that has assesed themselves to not be 'required' to pay any income tax, is not required to lodge a tax return in Thailand (same as in Australia).  If an Expat is a tax resident thjey are 'liable' to pay income taxes, whjich means they are required to go through the self-assesmnet process (or hire a tax agent/accountant to do that). But IMO if that Expat is assessed to be not 'required' to pay income taxes, then they do not have to lodge a tax return. The operative words being 'liable', 'required to after assesment' and 'not have to' - you can if you want - up to you. But an Expat will need to apply for and get a TIN from TRD to be able to lodge a tax return - 70/80% of Thais do not have a TIN and do not lodge a tax return to prove they dont have to pay income taxes.  You seem to want all Expats who are tax residents to get a TIN and lodge a tax return. 

 

I'm sorry once again to have to put you on my ignore list and to disregard anything further you have to say but I don't find your comments helpful, useful or constructive. 

[stat]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I don't think that some of these challenges or comments are either useful or constructive.  The way the overview statement is written at present is more than adequate to get across the message that needs to be delivered at the start of the guide. Taxpayers are required to assess the funds they have received to determine if they are assessable to Thai tax and as long as the threshold is exceeded, file a tax return. There is no explicit statement to say they don't have to file a return if the obverse is true, if readers want to interpret things that way, that is fine with me but I'm not going to interpret it for them. PWC is a global tax firm with 1,600 tax people in Thailand and their guide supports what has been written so I'm quite satisfied the statements are suitable. I don't plan to make further changes to the overview statement unless somebody can produce a link that provides quotes and gives concrete reasons why I should. If people want to wait and see, that's fine too.

 

OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW

 

3)   Thai tax laws require Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods, with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year and who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via:

 

a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code;

b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40.

c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, pension etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

 

….…to assess their income for Thai tax and file a tax return, providing the  assessable income threshold has been exceeded. Thai-sourced income is always taxable in Thailand, wherever it is received and regardless of tax residence status. Foreign sourced income is subject to remittance, tax residency and other factors such as terms of a DTA.

The questions and comments from TroubleandGrumpy are very helpfull and touch the very basic problem of who has to lodge a tax return. So far you have not provided an RD link that states that. The PwC link is good and points in your direction, however there a tons of people who are a tax resident in this country and have NEVER lodged a tax return me included. PwC of course has an interest that millions of expats need to file a tax return.

 

 

Edited April 8 by stat

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, stat said:

The questions and comments from TroubleandGrumpy are very helpfull and touch the very basic problem of who has to lodge a tax return. So far you have not provided an RD link that states that. The PwC link is good and points in your direction, however there a tons of people who are a tax resident in this country and have NEVER lodged a tax return me included. PwC of course has an interest that millions of expats need to file a tax return.

 

 

I'm not going to get drawn into an endless  debate that can't possibly conclude, just because the TRD Tax Code doesn't contain a form of words in English that meets everyone's satisfaction! That was exactly the same class of argument that bogged down this thread last october and November when the same people argued that assessable income hadn't been properly defined and nothing could be done until it was! Then there was the argument whether Australian pensions could be taxed in Thailand and the true meaning of the word resident, arguments that continue until today, many months on. It's the sort of utter nonsense that stifles progress and is reflective of Civil Service bureaucratic attitudes.

 

The Simple Guide states that it is a starting point for members to begin to manage their own tax affairs and is heavily caveated, it is not the Treaty of Versailles or a Supreme Court ruling! If any member is so concerned and can't figure out whether to file or not, go ask the Revenue or a paid for tax advisor, or simply wait. I fully intend to clarify the things that I can and fill the holes that can be filled, whist parking the things that I can't conclude.

 

Folks are going to have to be grown up and mature, if that's possible. They can either accept the things that have been presumed and understood thus far and move on to the next challenge and make progress, or, spend lots of time being unproductive, arguing and going round in circles. I am 100% going to do the former, what everyone else does is up to them. But what I will agree to do is to lodge this issue in the list of unknowns/unclear at the end of the document.  

[Mike Lister]

Below are what I think the key summary points are that arise from Simple Tax Guide and appear on the first and second page. The idea here is, as with any management summary, that readers will at least be able to ascertain the key findings without having to read the entire report. If you think something is missed off the list, please tell me.

 

a) The Thai Revenue Tax Code is more domestic centric than international. Many aspects of Thai tax law that affect foreigners in Thailand are not well understood. Consequently, several knowledge gaps exist that are slowly being filled.

 

b) The tax year is the calendar year which ends on 31 December, tax returns must be filed the following year, before 31 March.

 

c) Only income remitted to Thailand is potentially taxable in Thailand, income that remains overseas is not taxable for foreigners.

 

d) You must be present in Thailand for 180 days or more per calendar year before you are considered tax resident (a day can be as a little as a few minutes).

 

e) There is no double taxation but some types of income may be taxed at a different rate, some lower, some higher or some not at all.

 

f) Dual Tax Agreements exist between Thailand and over 60 countries, each is different, you must read and understand yours.

 

g) The tax treatment of a person from one country, using a certain type of income, may not be the same as that of another person from a different country, using the same or even different type of income. DTA rules are country, person and income type dependent.

 

h) Tax returns are filed using the honour system. You must declare your income, without any supporting paperwork and this will either be accepted or not, just as in the US and UK. If supporting evidence is required, it will be requested later.

 

i) Income that is taxed overseas will not be re-taxed here. Tax paid on income overseas can be credited and used to offset any Thai tax assessment on the same income. This may result in a refund/credit of tax already paid, payment of additional tax, or nothing at all.

 

j) Assessable income in Thailand may take many forms, bank transfers, cash, cheques, overseas debit card, ATM transactions etc and potentially, credit card transactions.

 

k) Generous Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) exist, along with a zero rated tax band,  combine to create a significant tax free buffer for many tax payers.

 

l) How you intend to use your imported funds in Thailand is of no concern to the RD and does not change the taxation of those funds.

 

m) Not all aspects of Gift Tax are fully understood, similarly, the way that the TRD will treat partial remittance of overseas Capital Gains is not known.

 

n) For the most part, the various tax treaties do not limit the extent to which pension, dividend, rental and interest income can be taxed by Thailand.

[Mike Lister]

I have logged the following point at the end of the simple tax guide, in the list of unclear/unknowns:

 

L) - two members do not believe that the Revenue Code is sufficiently explicit in stating who doesn’t need to file a tax return and instead only states who should! Most other members have been able to understand this issue but nevertheless, the search continues for a suitable form of RD words that will satisfy this point for everyone.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Below are what I think the key summary points are that arise from Simple Tax Guide and appear on the first and second page. The idea here is, as with any management summary, that readers will at least be able to ascertain the key findings without having to read the entire report. If you think something is missed off the list, please tell me.

 

a) The Thai Revenue Tax Code is more domestic centric than international. Many aspects of Thai tax law that affect foreigners in Thailand are not well understood. Consequently, several knowledge gaps exist that are slowly being filled.

 

b) The tax year is the calendar year which ends on 31 December, tax returns must be filed the following year, before 31 March.

 

c) Only income remitted to Thailand is potentially taxable in Thailand, income that remains overseas is not taxable for foreigners.

 

d) You must be present in Thailand for 180 days or more per calendar year before you are considered tax resident (a day can be as a little as a few minutes).

 

e) There is no double taxation but some types of income may be taxed at a different rate, some lower, some higher or some not at all.

 

f) Dual Tax Agreements exist between Thailand and over 60 countries, each is different, you must read and understand yours.

 

g) The tax treatment of a person from one country, using a certain type of income, may not be the same as that of another person from a different country, using the same or even different type of income. DTA rules are country, person and income type dependent.

 

h) Tax returns are filed using the honour system. You must declare your income, without any supporting paperwork and this will either be accepted or not, just as in the US and UK. If supporting evidence is required, it will be requested later.

 

i) Income that is taxed overseas will not be re-taxed here. Tax paid on income overseas can be credited and used to offset any Thai tax assessment on the same income. This may result in a refund/credit of tax already paid, payment of additional tax, or nothing at all.

 

j) Assessable income in Thailand may take many forms, bank transfers, cash, cheques, overseas debit card, ATM transactions etc and potentially, credit card transactions.

 

k) Generous Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) exist, along with a zero rated tax band,  combine to create a significant tax free buffer for many tax payers.

 

l) How you intend to use your imported funds in Thailand is of no concern to the RD and does not change the taxation of those funds.

 

m) Not all aspects of Gift Tax are fully understood, similarly, the way that the TRD will treat partial remittance of overseas Capital Gains is not known.

 

n) For the most part, the various tax treaties do not limit the extent to which pension, dividend, rental and interest income can be taxed by Thailand.

I believe you're being too accommodating to certain posters, especially those known to cause disruptions. This post seems unnecessary as it merely repeats information already provided in your Simple Tax Guide, a mere reference to this guide would have been sufficient. People who claim to be escaping 'nanny states' need to mature. You've already provided a comprehensive explanation of the changes to the Thai tax system. I suggest focusing on keeping the guide updated with any new information or changes. It's time for these individuals to act more responsibly.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I believe you're being too accommodating to certain posters, especially those known to cause disruptions. This post seems unnecessary as it merely repeats information already provided in your Simple Tax Guide, a mere reference to this guide would have been sufficient. People who claim to be escaping 'nanny states' need to mature. You've already provided a comprehensive explanation of the changes to the Thai tax system. I suggest focusing on keeping the guide updated with any new information or changes. It's time for these individuals to act more responsibly.

The list of key points is taken from the Simple Tax Guide itself, it was put there so that most people will at least read the list, even if they don't read the entire guide. My purpose in listing them here is a proof read and a completeness check only.

 

Your other points are noted, it's an issue the forum must deal with and hopefully the members will do so, rather than resorting to more extreme measures.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

13 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm sorry once again to have to put you on my ignore list and to disregard anything further you have to say but I don't find your comments helpful, useful or constructive. 

 

Sounds to me that my comment hit home and is true  - 70/80% of Thais do not have a TIN and do not lodge a tax return to prove they dont have to pay income taxes.  You seem to want all Expats who are tax residents to get a TIN and lodge a tax return. 

 

Dont apologise - I dont care you have blocked me (or removed my emoji response) my 'target' has always been to provide my opinions to everyone reading - not to 'behave' and not disagree with someone who makes incorrect statements, refuses to listen to alternative views, and demands everyone agree with them or go away.  My personal situation means I do not have to pay income taxes in Thailand - I am not arguing against some things you and others say for myself - just like I am not arguing with the guy that states that Expats receiving the Australian Age Pension in Australia have to pay income taxes for myself. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 hours ago, stat said:

The questions and comments from TroubleandGrumpy are very helpfull and touch the very basic problem of who has to lodge a tax return. So far you have not provided an RD link that states that. The PwC link is good and points in your direction, however there a tons of people who are a tax resident in this country and have NEVER lodged a tax return me included. PwC of course has an interest that millions of expats need to file a tax return.

Thanks for the support - appreciated.  I just cannot understand how anyone claiming to be an expert can read PWC's statement that they quoted "All persons liable to tax are required to file a tax return" and not realise that statement is patently incorrect in Thailand. 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I believe you're being too accommodating to certain posters, especially those known to cause disruptions. This post seems unnecessary as it merely repeats information already provided in your Simple Tax Guide, a mere reference to this guide would have been sufficient. People who claim to be escaping 'nanny states' need to mature. You've already provided a comprehensive explanation of the changes to the Thai tax system. I suggest focusing on keeping the guide updated with any new information or changes. It's time for these individuals to act more responsibly.

 

'Disruptions' - this is a public forum for people to read and debate things.  If/When I see something that is IMO wrong or vague, I will call it out and give my opinion (and defend that opinion).

 

Just to show that I only respond to words and statements that IMO are wrong, and there are not a lot of them in the total context, this statement below by Mike (just like most of the guide) drew no response from me - because IMO everything stated in it is correct.  Mike takes any negative criticism of words used in his Guide very personally - that is not IMO the way to discuss things that are always contentious - taxation like religion and politics, is one of them. Perhaps I should tone it down a little though - so I will going forward if that makes things easier to swallow.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Below are what I think the key summary points are that arise from Simple Tax Guide and appear on the first and second page. The idea here is, as with any management summary, that readers will at least be able to ascertain the key findings without having to read the entire report. If you think something is missed off the list, please tell me.

 

a) The Thai Revenue Tax Code is more domestic centric than international. Many aspects of Thai tax law that affect foreigners in Thailand are not well understood. Consequently, several knowledge gaps exist that are slowly being filled.

b) The tax year is the calendar year which ends on 31 December, tax returns must be filed the following year, before 31 March.

c) Only income remitted to Thailand is potentially taxable in Thailand, income that remains overseas is not taxable for foreigners.

d) You must be present in Thailand for 180 days or more per calendar year before you are considered tax resident (a day can be as a little as a few minutes).

e) There is no double taxation but some types of income may be taxed at a different rate, some lower, some higher or some not at all.

f) Dual Tax Agreements exist between Thailand and over 60 countries, each is different, you must read and understand yours.

g) The tax treatment of a person from one country, using a certain type of income, may not be the same as that of another person from a different country, using the same or even different type of income. DTA rules are country, person and income type dependent.

h) Tax returns are filed using the honour system. You must declare your income, without any supporting paperwork and this will either be accepted or not, just as in the US and UK. If supporting evidence is required, it will be requested later.

i) Income that is taxed overseas will not be re-taxed here. Tax paid on income overseas can be credited and used to offset any Thai tax assessment on the same income. This may result in a refund/credit of tax already paid, payment of additional tax, or nothing at all.

j) Assessable income in Thailand may take many forms, bank transfers, cash, cheques, overseas debit card, ATM transactions etc and potentially, credit card transactions.

k) Generous Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) exist, along with a zero rated tax band,  combine to create a significant tax free buffer for many tax payers.

l) How you intend to use your imported funds in Thailand is of no concern to the RD and does not change the taxation of those funds.

m) Not all aspects of Gift Tax are fully understood, similarly, the way that the TRD will treat partial remittance of overseas Capital Gains is not known.

n) For the most part, the various tax treaties do not limit the extent to which pension, dividend, rental and interest income can be taxed by Thailand.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I have logged the following point at the end of the simple tax guide, in the list of unclear/unknowns:

 

L) - two members do not believe that the Revenue Code is sufficiently explicit in stating who doesn’t need to file a tax return and instead only states who should! Most other members have been able to understand this issue but nevertheless, the search continues for a suitable form of RD words that will satisfy this point for everyone.

There is many more than two - several of them DM me.  Take a look at the first lot of pages before Mike started to write the Guide - there were members who were very active who are no longer very active. I cannot say who and why because that is in breach of their trust and asgainst the rules of this forum.

Edited April 9 by TroubleandGrumpy

[Mike Lister]

I have updated the Simple Guide with changes, discussed and agreed in the long thread, over the past few days. The changes are mainly to Capital Gains, Commingled Funds, Gift Tax and Overview of Tax Law. Some of the changes were things I missed previously whilst others represent new information. My apologies if this interrupts anyones reading, part way through.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

For the most part, the various tax treaties do not limit the extent to which pension, dividend, rental and interest income can be taxed by Thailand.

You're saying Thailand may violate treaty provisions?

 

Quote

 Income that is taxed overseas will not be re-taxed here. Tax paid on income overseas can be credited and used to offset any Thai tax assessment on the same income.

 How are you going to issue a credit if it's not re-taxed?

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You're saying Thailand may violate treaty provisions?

 

 How are you going to issue a credit if it's not re-taxed?

 

1) No, I am obviously not suggesting Thailand will violate any tax treaty but I think you understood that!! I can no longer recall where that came from but as I recall the intent was to say something to the effect that Thailand Revenue tax and the impact of DTA's on those imported funds, are not limited by home country domestic limits.

 

2) As an accountant, you understand that the funds have to be retaxed in order for a credit to be issued. If only the audience of the guide were all CPA's the job in creating the guide would be much  simpler. Sadly that is not the case, the man in the street and the aged pensioner assume that the word reatxe means that money will be taken away, rather than given back.

 

If you now wish to change the way those things are written, please give me a form of words that make you happy and I'll review them for inclusion in the next update, the existing words have only been in situ for three months without comment! If there's anything else you're not happy with, please let me know at the same time, type face, spacing etc included.

 

[proton]

Apart from Mike is there anyone not confused about all this?

[chang50]

1 hour ago, proton said:

Apart from Mike is there anyone not confused about all this?

Very few I suspect including sections of the revenue department.I went to Jomtien tax office this morning after following the simple tax guide to get a tin number as per the law and came away empty handed.They told my wife and I to come back next year with a bank statement.This will be way past the mandated 60 days deadline for bringing assessable income into Thailand and my residence cert. might be expired after 30 days.A total waste of time and money!

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, proton said:

Apart from Mike is there anyone not confused about all this?

Once again, if you are then you can ask questions here or you can PM me with them.

 

One problem this thread has it that some of the loudest voices are the ones least willing to contribute to the construction of the guide, proof read it and submit or even propose content, or support posters such as yourself and answer questions from members, without being prompted. Maybe it's empty vessel syndrome or maybe it's just that they don't care about helping.

[chang50]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Once again, if you are then you can ask questions here or you can PM me with them.

 

One problem this thread has it that some of the loudest voices are the ones least willing to contribute to the construction of the guide, proof read it and submit or even propose content, or support posters such as yourself and answer questions from members, without being prompted. Maybe it's empty vessel syndrome or maybe it's just that they don't care about helping.

I for one appreciate your hard work Mike.If you have read my reply to proton what would you advise me to do when I've tried to follow the law and been sent away by unhelpful staff and without a tin number?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, chang50 said:

I for one appreciate your hard work Mike.If you have read my reply to proton what would you advise me to do when I've tried to follow the law and been sent away by unhelpful staff and without a tin number?

The first question is whether you actually need a TIN, do you/will you have taxable income in excess of the threshold this year?

 

If the answer is no, I'd wait until next year and do as advised. If yes and you plan to file a return, I'd take steps to get one. Which type of Revenue office did you go to in Jomtiem, District, Region or small local? The bigger the office, the more likely they are to understand the rules.

 

But Jomtiem has such a high concentration of foreigners, it may be harder to obtain one there than other parts of the country so this is new ground for me. I can usually always get anything done that I need to at the District office in Chiang Mai but TIN's are only issued from the Regional office which is located elsewhere in town (at least that used to be the case). You may have been fobbed off because they can't issue you with one at that office and they didn't want to admit it.

 

Assuming you have a genuine need and desire to file a Thai tax return next January, I would go to the biggest tax office in my area, armed with proof I am a year round resident and that there is a need to file a tax return. Asking for a TIN doesn't require a bank statement (which is another odd thing about what you wrote) but they may want to see proof that you have a legitimate need to file. You could say that you receive rental income in Thailand, along with money/income from overseas and that you need to file....stand your ground and go up the chain if need be. 

 

Perhaps others who have applied for TIN's at Jomtiem successfully, can comment?

 

 

 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

If you now wish to change the way those things are written, please give me a form of words that make you happy and I'll review them for inclusion

Your implication that Thailand might violate the DTA ( "various tax treaties do not limit the extent...") is nonsensical. And, I don't even know what point you were trying to make. Suggest you just flush it,  unless you finally figure out that there's something germane to be said re the power and limitations of a DTA.

 

As for the man in the street being an idiot, and not understanding double taxation -- you can't say there will be no taxation in Thailand, then say, if so, you'll get a credit to avoid double taxation. You have to find better words; but as written now, the second sentence contradicts the first sentence. The man in the street may think you're the idiot.

 

This is the first I've ever read any of your tax guide. Have kept abreast of concerns by just reading the critiques from the gang hanging out on these threads. Actually, a nice sample of expats.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Your implication that Thailand might violate the DTA ( "various tax treaties do not limit the extent...") is nonsensical. And, I don't even know what point you were trying to make. Suggest you just flush it,  unless you finally figure out that there's something germane to be said re the power and limitations of a DTA.

 

As for the man in the street being an idiot, and not understanding double taxation -- you can't say there will be no taxation in Thailand, then say, if so, you'll get a credit to avoid double taxation. You have to find better words; but as written now, the second sentence contradicts the first sentence. The man in the street may think you're the idiot.

 

This is the first I've ever read any of your tax guide. Have kept abreast of concerns by just reading the critiques from the gang hanging out on these threads. Actually, a nice sample of expats.

So in other words, you want me to rewrite it and resubmit it, until you're happy with it! Hmmm!

 

I did not even write or remotely suggest or even imply that the man in the street is an idiot, those are your words and your sentiment alone! 

 

I guess I'll waste a couple of hours scrolling back through this thread to try and find out where the offending para's were lifted from, whoa betide whoever it was!

[chang50]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The first question is whether you actually need a TIN, do you/will you have taxable income in excess of the threshold this year?

 

If the answer is no, I'd wait until next year and do as advised. If yes and you plan to file a return, I'd take steps to get one. Which type of Revenue office did you go to in Jomtiem, District, Region or small local? The bigger the office, the more likely they are to understand the rules.

 

But Jomtiem has such a high concentration of foreigners, it may be harder to obtain one there than other parts of the country so this is new ground for me. I can usually always get anything done that I need to at the District office in Chiang Mai but TIN's are only issued from the Regional office which is located elsewhere in town (at least that used to be the case). You may have been fobbed off because they can't issue you with one at that office and they didn't want to admit it.

 

Assuming you have a genuine need and desire to file a Thai tax return next January, I would go to the biggest tax office in my area, armed with proof I am a year round resident and that there is a need to file a tax return. Asking for a TIN doesn't require a bank statement (which is another odd thing about what you wrote) but they may want to see proof that you have a legitimate need to file. You could say that you receive rental income in Thailand, along with money/income from overseas and that you need to file....stand your ground and go up the chain if need be. 

 

Perhaps others who have applied for TIN's at Jomtiem successfully, can comment?

 

Thanks Mike I'm just so frustrated at the minute..basically this is a shambles.I probably wouldn't have owed tax as i only bring in 640000 baht p.a. and my allowances and deductions are 560000 plus credits from the uk thai dta.I just stupidly tried to do the right thing..