Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[KannikaP]

Just now, Lorry said:

Yes

Very nice to know. Have you got links to this please, so I can show the Tax & Immigration people in December. Thanks.

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are correct.

 

Deduct 190k from total income, then deduct 60K personal care allowance, along with any other deductions you have.

 

Then, apply that amount against the tax tables, of which the first 150K is zero rated so tax free. Tax the remainder according to the bands, the next 150,001 to 300,000 at 5%, and so on up the scale.

Why are many members panicing?

[KannikaP]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You are correct.

 

Deduct 190k from total income, then deduct 60K personal care allowance, along with any other deductions you have.

 

Then, apply that amount against the tax tables, of which the first 150K is zero rated so tax free. Tax the remainder according to the bands, the next 150,001 to 300,000 at 5%, and so on up the scale.

So for someone sending 65k per month = 780k per year, they will only pay tax at the 5 & 10 % rates on 380k?

Edited October 11, 2023 by KannikaP

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So for me it will be 60 + 190 +150 = 400k before any tax is due?

Yes

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Why are many members panicing?

Fear of the unknown, uncontrolled imaginations, misconceptions about what the RD is trying to do, ignorance, bar stool chatter promoting nonsense.....and then some.

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

Fear of the unknown, uncontrolled imaginations, misconceptions about what the RD is trying to do, ignorance, bar stool chatter promoting nonsense.....and then some.

I sincerely hope so. Thanks for the information.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

So for someone sending 65k per month = 780k per year, they will only pay tax on 380k?

Yes, which will be the first 150k of it at 5% and the remaining 230k at 10%, that's 7,500 + 23,000.

[redwood1]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, which will be the first 150k of it at 5% and the remaining 230k at 10%, that's 7,500 + 23,000.

And if you buy a new car or condo or need that $$$ operation?

 

Yea its not pretty.....

Edited October 11, 2023 by redwood1

[KannikaP]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, which will be the first 150k of it at 5% and the remaining 230k at 10%, that's 7,500 + 23,000.

30600 a year = 2550 per month from your 65k isn't too bad, about 4%.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

And if you buy a new car or condo or need that $$$ operation?

 

Yea its not pretty.....

Not if it comes from capital rather than income and you can demonstrate that.

[Lorry]

26 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Why are many members panicing?

Because,  if Thailand is serious about this - and they seem to be serious - they would want to see your proof of foreign income (e.g. from your company) and proof of tax paid abroad to apply the DTA.

These documents most probably will have to be translated, maybe stamped by the Thai embassy in your country,  then stamped by your embassy here and by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok. I don't think you can get this done in less than 3-4 months (and it won't be for free).

 

It will probably be preferable to just pay and forget about the DTA.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Lorry

[Lorry]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

and you can demonstrate that.

That's the problem,  see my latest post.

The paperwork. 

Normal people constantly mix income and savings in the same bank accounts,  and there really isn't any way to separate these two again. 

[MartinL]

12 minutes ago, Lorry said:

It will probably be preferable to just pay and forget about the DTA.

Exactly what I was going to write.

 

I'd already decided that the UK-Thai DTT wasn't worth the paper it's written on for me, as a retired/married bloke who's not wealthy. It seems to offer absolutely no protection.

 

A calmer life without the hassle of dealing with TWO tax bureaucracies, trying to get tax credits, is worth more than the couple of bob that might be gained.

Edited October 11, 2023 by MartinL

[beammeup]

Will you have to pay tax on the money you remitt to pay your tax

[Mike Lister]

31 minutes ago, Lorry said:

That's the problem,  see my latest post.

The paperwork. 

Normal people constantly mix income and savings in the same bank accounts,  and there really isn't any way to separate these two again. 

A combination of UK tax return and bank statements should cover 90% of that easily I imagine, one proof of is income, the other savings. I agree that investment accounts may be more difficult. 

[Lorry]

17 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Will you have to pay tax on the money you remitt to pay your tax

Yes, of course

[stat]

1 hour ago, beammeup said:

Will you have to pay tax on the money you remitt to pay your tax

Sure as hell yes... and then repeat

[stat]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Why are many members panicing?

Because some members make 1 Mio USD per year in income and that COULD amount to over 250.000 USD in taxes per year if remitted or if another order changes the order to all income instead of just remitted income. And please do not answer with "you are still left with 750K per year". People who earn that much earn that much very often because they care about every penny.

Edited October 11, 2023 by stat

[bugger bognor]

As predicted getting closer to the magic 100 pages of delusional guesswork from a statement from a Thai official from a law that's been around for several decades, listen up THE LAW HASTNT CHANGED !!!! it's taken twenty years to try and implement a tourist tax FFS, there's nearly 200 countries with a dual tax agreement 99.9% of expats won't have to do anything some kind of hysteria has taken over you, complete madness even if it were true if you can't work out how not to pay any taxes here your a complete fool, luckily you won't need too because it ain't happening for expats any time in your sad complaining old lives get back to the Samsung and lao Khao and pretending you can still get it up your Thai girlfriend 

[redwood1]

46 minutes ago, bugger bognor said:

As predicted getting closer to the magic 100 pages of delusional guesswork from a statement from a Thai official from a law that's been around for several decades, listen up THE LAW HASTNT CHANGED !!!! it's taken twenty years to try and implement a tourist tax FFS, there's nearly 200 countries with a dual tax agreement 99.9% of expats won't have to do anything some kind of hysteria has taken over you, complete madness even if it were true if you can't work out how not to pay any taxes here your a complete fool, luckily you won't need too because it ain't happening for expats any time in your sad complaining old lives get back to the Samsung and lao Khao and pretending you can still get it up your Thai girlfriend 

We need more sensable posts like this.....Instead of guys debatng how best to wear tax handcuffs and leg irons so they are most confortable...

 

The whole thing is a unworkable mess..

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by redwood1

[Guavaman]

9 hours ago, moogradod said:

We will see how complicated it will really get. If you are right I would better engage a lawyer / accountant as well just to be sure to prevent misunderstandings with bigger impact. Actually I do not see any arise but as you know .......

 

The problem will be to find the right one. Needs to be specialized and professional, willing to confine time, speaking English very well and have lots of experience with the authorities. And this all in Chonburi. If you find one pls. drop me a PM. I will then check him out. Thanks.

If it (has) come(s) to that, and it looks like it coming, I would predict that we will observe a boom in partnership alliances forming now to link up provincial visa agents, lawyers with tax accountants -- but some of them have already become one-stop-shop ventures.  One of the greatest challenges is the lack of experience by anyone in addressing these issues: Farang taxpayers/wives, visa agents, provincial immigration officers, accounting firms, lawyers, Revenue Department officials, etc. in the whole country. So new networks will be formed, new flows of money will arise, and new forms of corruption will be invented to profit from tax avoidance and evasion. As is the norm, the most corrupt foreign organized crime syndicates will eventually come to dominate, fueled by Chinese, Russian, Indian, etc. investments in condominiums. 

 

I would expect that retirees will see the effects of changes in tax policy on Non-Wealthy Pensioners -- NWPs (not eligible for LTRs) if the latest ruling is challenged by the Opposition. In principle, that does not make sense, because the MFP party has policies for social welfare, so they will need even more tax money to pay for that -- young people wanting justice and equality does not have a very good record of success.

 

 

[Jinxed1]

Sorry couldn't read the whole 92 pages, is there an answer to what happens to capital gains remitted from now to before Jan 1st ?

 

Do i have to pay tax on those? or only if remitted AFTER Jan 1st ?

 

Thanks

[Puccini]

6 hours ago, KannikaP said:

So for someone sending 65k per month = 780k per year, they will only pay tax at the 5 & 10 % rates on 380k?

It depends on the DTA between Thailand and your country.

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, bugger bognor said:

As predicted getting closer to the magic 100 pages of delusional guesswork from a statement from a Thai official from a law that's been around for several decades, listen up THE LAW HASTNT CHANGED !!!! it's taken twenty years to try and implement a tourist tax FFS, there's nearly 200 countries with a dual tax agreement 99.9% of expats won't have to do anything some kind of hysteria has taken over you, complete madness even if it were true if you can't work out how not to pay any taxes here your a complete fool, luckily you won't need too because it ain't happening for expats any time in your sad complaining old lives get back to the Samsung and lao Khao and pretending you can still get it up your Thai girlfriend 

There are 61 Double Tax Agreements in Thailand, not 200, in fact there's only 195 countries in the entire world so it would be impossible for any country to have 200!

 

The tourist tax was first suggested in 2019, not 20 years ago! It was approved in 2012 but implementation was delayed because of covid.

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/002_019

 

Here is Sherrings Tax law for Thailand, you should read it and perhaps you''l learn something. https://sherrings.com/assessable-income-foreign-sources-thailand.html

 

 

[hondoelsinore]

6 hours ago, stat said:

Because some members make 1 Mio USD per year in income and that COULD amount to over 250.000 USD in taxes per year if remitted or if another order changes the order to all income instead of just remitted income. And please do not answer with "you are still left with 750K per year". People who earn that much earn that much very often because they care about every penny.

Another point of Thailand always longing to make the country attractive for the wealthy, but with the never ending clueless moves like this, they just don't have the capacity to make it happen, and it always falls back to just settling with the sexpats, criminals, and third rate tourists. It seemingly cannot rise above the old R&R spot for Vietnam soldiers full of cheap drink, and cheap woman that it's always been, but now it can also be the spot for the two week millionaires from everywhere. Thailand is always just settling, just like you are settling. Sad actually.

[Mike Lister]

50 minutes ago, hondoelsinore said:

Another point of Thailand always longing to make the country attractive for the wealthy, but with the never ending clueless moves like this, they just don't have the capacity to make it happen, and it always falls back to just settling with the sexpats, criminals, and third rate tourists. It seemingly cannot rise above the old R&R spot for Vietnam soldiers full of cheap drink, and cheap woman that it's always been, but now it can also be the spot for the two week millionaires from everywhere. Thailand is always just settling, just like you are settling. Sad actually.

If you were in Thailand during the 1990's and could compare what the country was then to the way it is today, you might see things differently, Thailand has come a long way very quickly, In the mid 1990's it was still am R&R spot with cheap booze and cheaper women, finding Western goods was not easy, the road system was poor and English language skills were often very hard to find.....Koh Samui for example only had a dirt road round parts of the island.

 

Today it's a totally different place, for better or worse it has grown and developed. Sukhumvit is now a respectable road, 30 years ago it was end to end beer bars and hookers, the shopping, hotels and infrastructure are worlds different. The same is true elsewhere in the country, you may not have seen it but the country has changed 1000%. The problem is that the country still doesn't have a joined up government or political infrastructure, they're still learning how to do those things. The problem that exists is people push to get elected, then push to announce their new policies and new laws (like this one) and then struggle with the realities of implementation. In Western countries this move on taxation would have been subject to two years of review and study by HMRC, before it was even announced, here it's announced and then they do the study. Don't blame the country, blame the speed with which they've made change. And also blame covid because if that hadn't come about the country would be easily over 45 million tourists per year and this law wouldn't even have been considered.

[hondoelsinore]

I grew up in Singapore and came here in 1994 and stayed for 8 years, and yes it was like you say, but accepting the fact that someplace was or might seem third world was never an issue for me with Singapore. Thailand has always done cheap way better than trying to be a true player for the wealth market. You will always fail when you have too much greed, and do not have a confident forward vision as a government and do not truly care for your citizens, your infrastructure, or your flailing society and the constant indecisiveness will always attract the wave upon wave of low life from around the world that think they are smarter than you. Only my opinion....

[Mike Lister]

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

There are 61 Double Tax Agreements in Thailand, not 200, in fact there's only 195 countries in the entire world so it would be impossible for any country to have 200!

 

The tourist tax was first suggested in 2019, not 20 years ago! It was approved in 2012 but implementation was delayed because of covid.

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/002_019

 

Here is Sherrings Tax law for Thailand, you should read it and perhaps you''l learn something. https://sherrings.com/assessable-income-foreign-sources-thailand.html

 

 

Typo above - 2012 should read 2022.

[KannikaP]

6 hours ago, Puccini said:

It depends on the DTA between Thailand and your country.

Does a DTA mean that if tax is paid in say , my country UK, I do not have to pay here.?

My example is for money coming into Thailand irrespective of any DTA.

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

There are 61 Double Tax Agreements in Thailand, not 200, in fact there's only 195 countries in the entire world so it would be impossible for any country to have 200!

 

The tourist tax was first suggested in 2019, not 20 years ago! It was approved in 2012 but implementation was delayed because of covid.

https://www.thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/002_019

 

Here is Sherrings Tax law for Thailand, you should read it and perhaps you''l learn something. https://sherrings.com/assessable-income-foreign-sources-thailand.html

 

 

A very useful link, thank you.