Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Mike Lister]

I have incorporated all the changes that have been suggested into Version 5 of the Tax Guide (below) and asked the Moderators to pin it in a locked thread, within the Finance section. If anyone wishes to suggest further changes, you can either post them here and hope that I spot them, or, you can PM me with the suggestion which I will ensure is discussed by a wider audience. If there is agreement that further changes should be made, and/or as new developments occur, I will attempt to update the document to keep it current.

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

8 January, 2024

Version 5

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

26. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

 

[redwood1]

29 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I have incorporated all the changes that have been suggested into Version 5 of the Tax Guide (below) and asked the Moderators to pin it in a locked thread, within the Finance section. If anyone wishes to suggest further changes, you can either post them here and hope that I spot them, or, you can PM me with the suggestion which I will ensure is discussed by a wider audience. If there is agreement that further changes should be made, and/or as new developments occur, I will attempt to update the document to keep it current.

 

A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND

8 January, 2024

Version 5

 

1. This guide has been compiled in an attempt to provide readers with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT.

 

2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been extensively exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed.

 

3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to  override anything produced by the Thai Revenue or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner.

 

4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation.

 

5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax and must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement.

 

6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax  payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other.

 

7. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 180 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day.

 

8. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March.

 

9. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive:

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and

 

10. There are also classes or types of income that the RD does not regard as assessable and these are also linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

 

11. Income that is derived from  within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax.  Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand.  You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here.

 

12. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules.

 

13. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings  were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.  

 

14. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

15. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service pensions are not!

 

16. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may bee to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home  country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you.

 

17. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely).

 

18. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand).

 

19. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department.

 

20. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply.

 

21. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that  falls within each band and are shown and linked below:

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

23. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

24. The Thai Revenue  tax filing system is online but is only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. CAUTION, the forms are updated every year and the 2023/24 forms for full year PIT are NOT yet available:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html

 

25. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide.

26. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562

 

27. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think  that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US.

 

28. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

*** END ***

 

 

 

You put a big effort into this post.....

 

But if these numbers are correct..

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

 

This is a stinking joke.....

 

Just renting a very modest 17,000 baht a month condo would already put you at 204,000 baht and thats before you spend so much as one dollar on any thing else in a entire year......God forbid if you needed to eat or use electricity or visit a hospital etc...

 

Even a Thai worker only making 500 baht a day.......500 X 365= 182,500 baht a year...

 

So is every Thai and Farang  not homeless and living on the beach going to be paying this tax?

 

Yea right when pigs fly...

 

If they want this tax to really work they must give out at least a 2-3 million baht exemption every year to everybody.....So they will only be catching big fish...

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

You put a big effort into this post.....

 

But if these numbers are correct..

 

Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

750,000 – 1,000,000 20%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

 

This is a stinking joke.....

 

Just renting a very modest 17,000 baht a month condo would already put you at 204,000 baht and thats before you spend so much as one dollar on any thing else in a entire year......God forbid if you needed to eat or use electricity or visit a hospital etc...

 

Even a Thai worker only making 500 baht a day.......500 X 365= 182,500 baht a year...

 

So is every Thai and Farang  not homeless and living on the beach going to be paying this tax?

 

Yea right when pigs fly...

 

If they want this tax to really work they must give out at least a 2-3 million baht exemption every year to everybody.....So they will only be catching big fish...

It will all depend on your age and your source of income and country of origin. In a worst case scenario, yes, it could be expensive. But an over 65 year old can expect to see between 500k and 600k in deductions each year plus, if their income is largely from the US from SSC, $40k of that is tax free. So it is possible, given the right combination, for much of that income to be free of tax.

[jerrymahoney]

So the big question as I see it is --

 

When will anyone, for any reason, be told by someone in a Thai position of authority:

 

You need to file a personal income tax form/return, but you didn't.

Edited January 8 by jerrymahoney

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

So the big question as I see it is --

 

When will anyone, for any reason, be told by someone in a Thai position of authority:

 

You need to file a personal income tax form/return, but you didn't.

The onus is on the individual to determine if they need to file a tax return. If they do not and they should have, the next thing they can logically expect is a query from the RD asking why not. Exactly why the RD might do that or how they would know is not immediately clear but between the banks and Immigration, all the components and data is there, all they have to do is make all the connections, just as most Western governments have.

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The onus is on the individual to determine if they need to file a tax return. If they do not and they should have, the next thing they can logically expect is a query from the RD asking why not. Exactly why the RD might do that or how they would know is not immediately clear but between the banks and Immigration, all the components and data is there, all they have to do is make all the connections, just as most Western governments have.

And as I have said, onus on the individual or not, there will likely be expats that, if they think they can get away with not filing, and do things like only using ATM withdrawals and other under-the-radar approaches, they will.

Edited January 8 by jerrymahoney

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The onus is on the individual to determine if they need to file a tax return. If they do not and they should have, the next thing they can logically expect is a query from the RD asking why not. Exactly why the RD might do that or how they would know is not immediately clear but between the banks and Immigration, all the components and data is there, all they have to do is make all the connections, just as most Western governments have.

In the absence of clear guidelines how is one to follow such guidelines? 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And as I have said, onus on the individual or not, there will likely be expats that, if they think they can get away with not filing, and do things like only using ATM withdrawals and other under-the-radar approaches, they will.

Of course, and if/when they get caught out, they only have themselves to blame. Free stuff almost never lasts for ever.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

In the absence of clear guidelines how is one to follow such guidelines? 

 

 

Get over it and make it work, you're an adult, if you can't, ask the RD or employ a tax consultant.

[TheAppletons]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Free stuff almost never lasts for ever.

 

  <Herpes enters the chat>

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And as I have said, onus on the individual or not, there will likely be expats that, if they think they can get away with not filing, and do things like only using ATM withdrawals and other under-the-radar approaches, they will.

The problem is that that is how do you do extension to stay.

 

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Of course, and if/when they get caught out, they only have themselves to blame. Free stuff almost never lasts for ever.

Well at least as of right now, all the inter-connecting links that you list as to how someone might be found out, don't exist.

 

I have mentioned before  that one reason I do not use an agent for extension is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. I know that really doesn't apply to me, but I choose to follow it in spirit anyways. Especially since my first real interaction with a foreign government was with the Chinese Agricultural Ministry.

 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-fraud/foreign-corrupt-practices-act

Edited January 8 by jerrymahoney

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

The problem is that that is how do you do extension to stay.

 

Bribe.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well at least as of right now, all the inter-connecting links that you list as to how someone might be found out, don't exist.

 

I have mentioned before  that one reason I do not use an agent for extension is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. I know that really doesn't apply to me, but I choose to follow it in spirit anyways. Especially since my first real interaction with a foreign government was with the Chinese Agricultural Ministry.

 

https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-fraud/foreign-corrupt-practices-act

Neither you nor I don't know if those links exist or not! What we do know is that they are not fully operationalized yet.

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Neither you nor I don't know if those links exist or not! What we do know is that they are not fully operationalized yet.

Not my problem. Immigration already has all my bank info and remittances and has for 4 years now. 

[Rimmer]

post and replies discussing an illegal activity have been removedf

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  <Herpes enters the chat>

Excellent, gets my vote for post of the day.

[Mike Lister]

Most readers will be able to figure this out for themselves so the following is for those posters who have been involved in this thread extensively but still can't seem to work out the basics and keep bleating about the same issue:

 

 

The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this monumental feat. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return.  Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favorably on such people and penalties are likely.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

 

22. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full  time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

 

 

On a joint" return where both over age 65 people have assessable income to declare do both get the 190K exemption resulting in 2 times 190K for 380K total OR is the 190K exemption just allowed once on the return whether it's for a single or joint return?   

Edited January 8 by Pib

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Pib said:

 

On a "loint" return where both over age 65 people have assessable income to declare do both get the 190K exemption resulting in 2 times 190K for 380K total OR is the 190K exemption just allowed once on the return whether it's for a single or joint return?   

Loint return were phased out in 1992. :)

 

An excellent question that hasn't come up before, the answer is, I don't know! My strongest suspicion is that the 190k exemption can only be claimed once per tax return and that if both people want to claim it, they must file single returns. I will do some checking and try to come back to you with a definitive answer.

 

Thanks for raising a useful query.

 

 

[freeworld]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

The problem is that that is how do you do extension to stay.

 

For extension of stay ie immigration, just follow the rules, deposit in a bank or a monthly income or letter from embassy.

 

Tax is dealt with by the tax office.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, freeworld said:

For extension of stay ie immigration, just follow the rules, deposit in a bank or a monthly income or letter from embassy.

 

Tax is dealt with by the tax office.

My response was to the proposition of using an ATM to transfer money thus avoiding taxes. Then the question is how do you do an extension based on income if you do not show any income?  

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Loint return were phased out in 1992. :)

 

An excellent question that hasn't come up before, the answer is, I don't know! My strongest suspicion is that the 190k exemption can only be claimed once per tax return and that if both people want to claim it, they must file single returns. I will do some checking and try to come back to you with a definitive answer.

 

Thanks for raising a useful query.

 

 

Well, what I meant by a joint return is where both you and spouse are submitting one tax return where both of you declare your income.   Yesterday I tried to walk myself thru completing a joint return and that 190K exemption seemed to be total for a return vs 190K for each person, but I was completely unsure when the dust settled...figured I'd let is lay a day or two and look at it again.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8 by Pib

[freeworld]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

My response was to the proposition of using an ATM to transfer money thus avoiding taxes. Then the question is how do you do an extension based on income if you do not show any income?  

Seems like avoiding or evading something.

 

Follow the rules, deposit the money in a bank account and show the statement.

Edited January 8 by freeworld

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well, what I meant by a joint return is where both you and spouse are submitting one tax return where both of you declare your income.   Yesterday I tried to walk myself thru completing a joint return and that 190K exemption seemed to be total for a return vs 190K for each person, but I was completely unsure when the dust settled...figured I'd let is lay a day or two and look at it again.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I understood that, I was making light of your typo.

 

I haven't tried the scenario you describe so you are the pioneer in this matter. If you can get 2 x 190k on a joint return and that facility exists, great.

[Pib]

One more question, for a retired person whose total income now comes from pensions, savings, investments, etc., with no income from work/employment do they submit a Form 90 or 91.   In the example given a few posts up an example Form 91 is being used but that seems to conflict with below webpage.  And to top it off both the form 90 and 91 use the Pension word on it causing more confusion in my pea brain.

 

 

https://www.rsm.global/thailand/insights/rsm-focus/filing-pnd90-and-pnd91#:~:text=PND 90 and PND 91,using the PND 91 Form.

Quote

 

How do I know which one to submit?

Individuals who have worked or are working in Thailand are required to file a personal income tax return (either of PND.90 or PND.91).  How does the taxpayer know which one to submit or which return is required to be filed?  We have summarized the details to clarify this for you to easily understand the requirements as follows: ........

 

PND.90 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) to (8)

PND.91 return is the personal income tax return to report the assessable income under Section 40(1) obtained from employment

 

 

Concluding remarks

PND 90 and PND 91 are Forms for filing personal income tax. If the taxpayer has various types of income, they must submit documents using the PND 90 Form. If the taxpayer has 40 (1) income, for example, only one type of salary, they must submit documents using the PND 91 Form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

One more question, for a retired person whose total income now comes from pensions, savings, investments, etc., with no income from work/employment do they submit a Form 90 or 91.   In the example given a few posts up an example Form 91 is being used but that seems to conflict with below webpage.  And to top it off both the form 90 and 91 use the Pension word on it causing more confusion in my pea brain.

 

 

https://www.rsm.global/thailand/insights/rsm-focus/filing-pnd90-and-pnd91#:~:text=PND 90 and PND 91,using the PND 91 Form.

 

 

 

 

 

Disregard above question....I found another webpage (see below) that cleared things up for me.....I would use a Form 91 like in Mike Lister's example.

 

https://www.wonderfulpackage.com/article/v/1646/

 

Quote

 

Who needs to file PND.90 and PND.91?

- For those who have to file a PND.90 form, they are as follows.

1. Those who are single and have income exceeding 60,000 baht.
2. Those who are husband and wife and have income together exceeding 120,000 baht.
3. Heritage property that has not been divided has income exceeding 60,000 baht.
4. Non-juristic partnership have income exceeding 60,000 baht.
5. Non-corporate person have income exceeding 60,000 baht.
6. Community enterprises, only if it is an ordinary partnership or a person who is not a juristic person have income exceeding 1,800,000 baht or 60,000 baht but not more than 1,800,000 baht will be exempt from income tax.

- For those who have to file a PND.91 form, they are as follows.

1. Those who are single and have income exceeding 120,000 baht.
2. Those who are husband and wife and have income together exceeding 220,000 baht.

That income includes income from employment such as salary, wages, allowance, bonus, pension, house rental, and other income, income from the employer to the tenant without pay the rent fee, income derived from the employer pays the debt that the employee is obliged to pay, and asset or any benefits gained from employment, money that the employer pays once due to leaving work, including compensation under the labor law for who have a period of work of less than 5 years.

Remarks

• In the case of leaving the job and the employer pays a one-time payment including compensation for those who have a working period of 5 years or more can be combined with taxes and other income.
• In the case of leaving the job and the employer pays a one-time payment and chooses not to combine the income with taxes and other income, must also show the item in the attachment and submit it together with the form PND.91.

Thank you for the information from;
The Revenue Department

 

 

[The Cyclist]

OK

 

I will try again

 

52 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, 

 

Required to report, by filing a tax return, any assessable income.

 

56 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable.

 

Both parts  above are clear and blindingly obvious.

 

Below is what is not blindingly obvious.

 

If you only remit income that is 20,000% locked up in a DTA and is considered to be non assessable, and is only taxable in the UK, US, Aus or wherever.

 

Does that person need to file a Thai tax return ?

 

 

 

[sirineou]

45 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Seems like avoiding or evading something.

 

Follow the rules, deposit the money in a bank account and show the statement.

 

Brilliant !!

Why didn't I think of that. 

 

[beammeup]

Avoiding is legal, Evading is not. Therefore clarity is needed.