ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hamas just did  a modern day pogrom and is dedicated to erasing Israel and killing all Jews so sorry I find your broken record whining about "colonialism" to be clueless and disgusting. 

The war now is Israel vs. Hamas in Gaza. Israel doesn't want to "steal" Gaza. 

My broken record, what are you on about? Maybe better to follow a specific discussion before jumping in.

Edited October 15, 2023 by stevenl

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

You can compare latest Gaza bombings (4.000 tons) by IAF with the 1945 Dresden bombings (3.900 tons) between 13 and 15 February. Only difference is that the RAF and USAF used also incendiary bombs.

 

Some 3.600 targets have been bombed by IAF this week in Gaza. With 4 x MK84 guided smart bombs per F16 per exit they cover +/- 500 exits per day or 3 to 4 exits per F16 pilot/day.

Apparently, they also use the +/- 340 kgs - M117 (from Korean war) dumb bombs on Gaza. 

 

Still people want to do their best to convince me that this isn't "carpet bombing" or systematically bombing populated grid/areas with +/- 1.000 kgs bombs.

 

 

If so, how come the casualty lists are not much longer? Could it be anything with you're 'account' of things being incorrect? Or maybe that Gazans have more common sense than to listen to Hamas leadership and clear south?

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

Quote "I call BS for that explanation of the ongoing expansion and colonisation of more and more land. "

 

this is not an explanation it a satement   you are full of BS  when people call you out you got nothing.  waste of time go away, history buff my arsX

Excellent, please ignore me.

Your lack of knowledge and norrowmindness is not contributing.

[MikeandDow]

Just now, stevenl said:

Excellent, please ignore me.

Your lack of knowledge and norrowmindness is not contributing.

Love it   Total clue less

Edited October 15, 2023 by MikeandDow

[Danny Australia]

4 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

i do and There are no reliable news outlets claiming Israel deliberately targets civilians.

I know it's hard to convince ideological Zinonist of anything that does not match their twisted belief, but I will try.

 

As of this morning, out of a total 2,215 killed since last Saturday, 724 of them are Palestinian children and 458 are women. Another 8714 were injured.

 

These figures are a proof that your criminal entity Israel is in fact targeting women and children. Criminals of the Israeli army must have known that levelling a residential tower would inevitably lead to loss of lives among civilians, not rocket science. 

 

Now go on and ask for sources and links and photos to dilute facts. Pathetic  

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

I know it's hard to convince ideological Zinonist of anything that does not match their twisted belief, but I will try.

 

As of this morning, out of a total 2,215 killed since last Saturday, 724 of them are Palestinian children and 458 are women. Another 8714 were injured.

 

These figures are a proof that your criminal entity Israel is in fact targeting women and children. Criminals of the Israeli army must have known that levelling a residential tower would inevitably lead to loss of lives among civilians, not rocket science. 

 

Now go on and ask for sources and links and photos to dilute facts. Pathetic  

People getting killed doesn't imply they were deliberately targeted. 

[Thorgal]

47 minutes ago, Morch said:

If so, how come the casualty lists are not much longer? Could it be anything with you're 'account' of things being incorrect? Or maybe that Gazans have more common sense than to listen to Hamas leadership and clear south?

+2.000 victims of bombings in Gaza were all civilians.

 

Please share if the carpet bombing on Gaza eliminated a few Hamas militants.

[Danny Australia]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

People getting killed doesn't imply they were deliberately targeted. 

Come on, levelling many residential towers within minutes in the 'Remal' neighbourhood without warnings is not a deliberate targeting of innocent civilians? Really?

 

Can I borrow your logic and ask what if Hamas levelled a residential tower in Tel Aviv? That would not be described as deliberate targeting of innocent civilians?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

29 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

I know it's hard to convince ideological Zinonist of anything that does not match their twisted belief, but I will try.

 

As of this morning, out of a total 2,215 killed since last Saturday, 724 of them are Palestinian children and 458 are women. Another 8714 were injured.

 

These figures are a proof that your criminal entity Israel is in fact targeting women and children. Criminals of the Israeli army must have known that levelling a residential tower would inevitably lead to loss of lives among civilians, not rocket science. 

 

Now go on and ask for sources and links and photos to dilute facts. Pathetic  

Well Danny, you certainly seem obsessed with the number of Palestinians killed and injured ( not so much so with Israeli casualties) Is that why in an earlier comment you said it was right for Hamas to prevent civilians from evacuating an imminent battlefield, so that they could stay there and improve the death toll statistics to criticise the IDF with ….. shameful, really shameful.

 

You even had the temerity to say that Palestinians prefer to stay in their own land and die for it (as if you have some right to speak for them) even though by the hundreds of thousands they are desperately trying to leave on IDF advice …. the most shameful use of human tragedy to score political points that I have witnessed on this forum.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Come on, levelling many residential towers within minutes in the 'Remal' neighbourhood without warnings is not a deliberate targeting of innocent civilians? Really?

 

Can I borrow your logic and ask what if Hamas levelled a residential tower in Tel Aviv? That would not be described as deliberate targeting of innocent civilians?

Two dependencies.

Are the towers military targets (Hamas terrorist targets using human shields)?

If so, the target is not civilians.

Accidents? They happen but they are accidents not targeting civilians.

Israel doesn't use civilian shields as Hamas terrorists do..

[Danny Australia]

52 minutes ago, Morch said:

If so, how come the casualty lists are not much longer? Could it be anything with you're 'account' of things being incorrect? Or maybe that Gazans have more common sense than to listen to Hamas leadership and clear south?

The current casualty list is not long enough for you? 2,215 dead so far with 724 dead children and 458 dead women and another 8,714 injured (2450 children and 1,536 women). These numbers from this afternoon, so no doubt much more by now as the casualties list is increasing by the minute.

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

I know it's hard to convince ideological Zinonist of anything that does not match their twisted belief, but I will try.

 

As of this morning, out of a total 2,215 killed since last Saturday, 724 of them are Palestinian children and 458 are women. Another 8714 were injured.

 

These figures are a proof that your criminal entity Israel is in fact targeting women and children. Criminals of the Israeli army must have known that levelling a residential tower would inevitably lead to loss of lives among civilians, not rocket science. 

 

Now go on and ask for sources and links and photos to dilute facts. Pathetic  

"Twisted "Zinonist" ideology?

The belief that the Jewish people deserve a national homeland and that state has every right to defend itself againt terrorist forces that wish to wipe them off the map is "twisted" is it?

It's actually a freedom and liberation movement. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Jingthing

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

The current casualty list is not long enough for you? 2,215 dead so far with 724 dead children and 458 dead women and another 8,714 injured (2450 children and 1,536 women). These numbers from this afternoon, so no doubt much more by now as the casualties list is increasing by the minute.

The figures will very unfortunately, become much higher than that if Hamas are successful in their continuing attempts to stop civilians leaving the imminent  battleground area …. something you approve of, if you care to remember

[Danny Australia]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

"Twisted "Zinonist" ideology?

The belief that the Jewish people deserve a national homeland is "twisted" is it?

It's actually a freedom and liberation movement. 

Not at the expense of the indigenous people. Zionism created Israel by committing multiple massacres in Deir Yassin, Kufur Qasim and terrorising civilians and displacement of millions of Palestinians to neighbouring countries. Ishaq Shamir and Menachem Beigin were two terrorists leading the killings and later becoming prime ministers of Israel.

[Yagoda]

19 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Come on, levelling many residential towers within minutes in the 'Remal' neighbourhood without warnings is not a deliberate targeting of innocent civilians? Really?

 

Can I borrow your logic and ask what if Hamas levelled a residential tower in Tel Aviv? That would not be described as deliberate targeting of innocent civilians?

Well Hamas would do it for jew killing fun as the Israelis dont put military assets in residential towers, unlike the cowardly Hamas terrorists that make war on women and children and use their own as shields.

 

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

+2.000 victims of bombings in Gaza were all civilians.

 

Please share if the carpet bombing on Gaza eliminated a few Hamas militants.

You have no idea if they were all civilians. That's maybe what the Palestinians say, on past rounds of fighting they routinely inflated casualty figures, and claimed all were civilians - sometimes having to backpedal when caught. Doubt this will be any different.

 

Already linked reports to specific Hamas military leaders being targeted, and in one case captured. You're welcome to look up topic.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Not at the expense of the indigenous people. Zionism created Israel by committing multiple massacres in Deir Yassin, Kufur Qasim and terrorising civilians and displacement of millions of Palestinians to neighbouring countries. Ishaq Shamir and Menachem Beigin were two terrorists leading the killings and later becoming prime ministers of Israel.

Jews have the much much stronger and much much much longer claim as the indigenous people of the land of Israel than "Palestinian" Arabs.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Jingthing

[MikeandDow]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

I know it's hard to convince ideological Zinonist of anything that does not match their twisted belief, but I will try.

 

As of this morning, out of a total 2,215 killed since last Saturday, 724 of them are Palestinian children and 458 are women. Another 8714 were injured.

 

These figures are a proof that your criminal entity Israel is in fact targeting women and children. Criminals of the Israeli army must have known that levelling a residential tower would inevitably lead to loss of lives among civilians, not rocket science. 

 

Now go on and ask for sources and links and photos to dilute facts. Pathetic  

you are a news outlet

[MikeandDow]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Jews have the much much stronger and much much much longer claim as the indigenous people of the land of Israel than "Palestinian" Arabs.

 

 

correct

 

[Morch]

26 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Come on, levelling many residential towers within minutes in the 'Remal' neighbourhood without warnings is not a deliberate targeting of innocent civilians? Really?

 

Can I borrow your logic and ask what if Hamas levelled a residential tower in Tel Aviv? That would not be described as deliberate targeting of innocent civilians?

I guess I'll have to repeat again - what people imagine international law is on such matters, and what it actually is are distinct things. As for no warning etc. - if you say so.... I an sure that carrying out this numbers of sorties would include at least some which can be later prosecuted, there's always that. But as for wholesale labeling of everything Israel does as a war crime etc. - that's probably not going to hold.

 

I will tell you this, though, putting your bunker right next to a hospital, or placing an arms depot under a school are definitely not allowed. Don't see you airing much issues with Hamas placing their facilities among residents to begin with. Think how much less destruction and loss of life this could save, eh?

 

As for your Tel Aviv example, it's simple - each and every time Hamas launches a rocket, no matter if it hits - that's a war crime. See, you can't launch indiscriminate armaments against civilian populations. While it may sound like the exact opposite of deliberate targeting, it's considered in a similar manner.

[Morch]

33 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

The current casualty list is not long enough for you? 2,215 dead so far with 724 dead children and 458 dead women and another 8,714 injured (2450 children and 1,536 women). These numbers from this afternoon, so no doubt much more by now as the casualties list is increasing by the minute.

My comment was that if things were as that poster claimed, the death toll would have been higher. Don't twist my words and meaning.

 

You do realize that the Hamas managed to inflict about half that number of casualties, in a day, right? Israel's aerial campaign is going on for about a week now. If Israel was on a rampage, again, the death toll would be higher.

[MikeandDow]

24 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Not at the expense of the indigenous people. Zionism created Israel by committing multiple massacres in Deir Yassin, Kufur Qasim and terrorising civilians and displacement of millions of Palestinians to neighbouring countries. Ishaq Shamir and Menachem Beigin were two terrorists leading the killings and later becoming prime ministers of Israel.

this is funny an australian sticking up for Indigenous people  think you best start with your own country first

 

you need to read the history of how Israel was formed before spouting rubbish

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Not at the expense of the indigenous people. Zionism created Israel by committing multiple massacres in Deir Yassin, Kufur Qasim and terrorising civilians and displacement of millions of Palestinians to neighbouring countries. Ishaq Shamir and Menachem Beigin were two terrorists leading the killings and later becoming prime ministers of Israel.

There were definitely bad and even horrible things done during the 1948 war. By Arabs as well, of course. One side accepted the UN proposal, won the war the other side commenced, and built a country. The other side chose only rejectionism and a futile 'struggle'. People are to be, at least somewhat, accountable for their choices.

 

As for the rest - both became prime minister many years later on. Sometimes that happens, and not only in Israel. Guess Arafat wasn't a terrorist in your book? Or some of those Fatah members waiting for Abbas to drop dead? Or Hamas leaders? All cleared by you?

[MikeandDow]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

There were definitely bad and even horrible things done during the 1948 war. By Arabs as well, of course. One side accepted the UN proposal, won the war the other side commenced, and built a country. The other side chose only rejectionism and a futile 'struggle'. People are to be, at least somewhat, accountable for their choices.

 

As for the rest - both became prime minister many years later on. Sometimes that happens, and not only in Israel. Guess Arafat wasn't a terrorist in your book? Or some of those Fatah members waiting for Abbas to drop dead? Or Hamas leaders? All cleared by you?

good post

[Eloquent pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

I will tell you this, though, putting your bunker right next to a hospital, or placing an arms depot under a school are definitely not allowed. Don't see you airing much issues with Hamas placing their facilities among residents to begin with. Think how much less destruction and loss of life this could save, eh?

 

Pointless telling him, he has already said that it is right for Hamas to prevent innocent civilians from evacuating the imminent war zone; despite all his faux virtue signalling, and bleeding heart moralising, he seems less concerned about the welfare of the civilian Palestinian population of Gaza than Hamas do ….. some achievement that.

[Chomper Higgot]

Here’s a question to everyone, but particularly to @Morch because you are at least addressing issues not emotions.

 

I think we would all agree that the success of Hamas’ obscene terrorist attack (and it was without doubt an obscenity) was due in no small part to the failure of Israeli Intelligence Services to detect the rising threat and/or Israeli Military/Political Leadership to respond to any warnings given.

 

It is perhaps enticing to accept the argument that the Hamas attack (obscene as it was) was cunning, audacious and lucky.

 

There are rational arguments that Israel should be cautious in its military response, particularly ground invasion, given the demonstrated failures of Israeli Intelligence.

 

Implicit in that view is the acceptance that the success or failure of a military action is to a significant extent predetermined by the quality of the available intelligence.

 

Which shines a spot light on the elephant in the room.

 

Here are two questions deserving of consideration. I’m sure someone in Israel is either considering these questions or not doing their job:

 

Q1. Was the success of the (obscene) Hamas terrorist attack predicated on accurate Intelligence available to Hamas?

 

Q2. If so where did this accurate Intelligence come from and how did it make its way to Hamas?

 

 

 

[Morch]

Israel resumes water supply to southern Gaza after U.S. pressure

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-resumes-water-supply-to-southern-gaza-after-us-pressure/ar-AA1ieW8g

 

Some reprieve, at least.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s a question to everyone, but particularly to @Morch because you are at least addressing issues not emotions.

 

I think we would all agree that the success of Hamas’ obscene terrorist attack (and it was without doubt an obscenity) was due in no small part to the failure of Israeli Intelligence Services to detect the rising threat and/or Israeli Military/Political Leadership to respond to any warnings given.

 

It is perhaps enticing to accept the argument that the Hamas attack (obscene as it was) was cunning, audacious and lucky.

 

There are rational arguments that Israel should be cautious in its military response, particularly ground invasion, given the demonstrated failures of Israeli Intelligence.

 

Implicit in that view is the acceptance that the success or failure of a military action is to a significant extent predetermined by the quality of the available intelligence.

 

Which shines a spot light on the elephant in the room.

 

Here are two questions deserving of consideration. I’m sure someone in Israel is either considering these questions or not doing their job:

 

Q1. Was the success of the (obscene) Hamas terrorist attack predicated on accurate Intelligence available to Hamas?

 

Q2. If so where did this accurate Intelligence come from and how did it make its way to Hamas?

 

 

 

Is that Alex Jones  ?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Is that Alex Jones  ?

No it is not.

 

Now try to address the questions I ask or jog on.

[Danny Australia]

47 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well Danny, you certainly seem obsessed with the number of Palestinians killed and injured ( not so much so with Israeli casualties) Is that why in an earlier comment you said it was right for Hamas to prevent civilians from evacuating an imminent battlefield, so that they could stay there and improve the death toll statistics to criticise the IDF with ….. shameful, really shameful.

 

You even had the temerity to say that Palestinians prefer to stay in their own land and die for it (as if you have some right to speak for them) even though by the hundreds of thousands they are desperately trying to leave on IDF advice …. the most shameful use of human tragedy to score political points that I have witnessed on this forum.

Shameful on me to criticise the IDF? It's shameful and criminal behavior for the IDF to issue an evacuation order for 1.1 million human beings or risk being bombed. It seems you have no problem with such a threat to civilian population. They should not be given this criminal binary choice go away or die.

 

IDF is not issuing this criminal threat out of concern for Palestinian lives, far from it. They just want to move the entire population of Gaze closer to Egypt where they might be ending in a tent city in Sinai on the Egyptian side of the border as happened after 1796 and 1948 wars. 

 

Mass displacement of innocent civilians is a crime under international law which Israel does not give a toss about as long as the American master holds the Veto right.