Expats seeking a new life face challenges with stricter banking and taxation rules being pushed

[happydreamer]

1 hour ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Taxable income (Baht)	Tax rate %
1-150,000	Exempt
150,001-300,000	5%
300,001-500,000	10%
500,001-750,000	15%
750,001-1,000,000	20%
1,000,001-2,000,000	25%
2,000,001-5,000,000	30%
5,000,001 and over	35%

Ya I understand this part.  But what Im asking is do they increment the tax on your earnings for each bracket?  So if you're in the 2-5Million Baht bracket are you paying 30% on the entire amount or just the amount thats over 2 million?

[Iamloki]

17 hours ago, SuperSaiyan said:

Philippines is the way to go. It's 20 years behind in time, like it or hate it. No taxes on world income, no visa hassles and by that I mean absolutely ZERO. More young marriage type girls available and they speak English and not just "I go boom boom".

 

I visited the Manila and Boracay in 1999... Truly loved the experience (even Manila 555), but really had trouble with the food... If I can't eat the food, it's really hard to spend any real time in a place. Other than that, I might think about it...

[Mike Lister]

34 minutes ago, happydreamer said:

Ya I understand this part.  But what Im asking is do they increment the tax on your earnings for each bracket?  So if you're in the 2-5Million Baht bracket are you paying 30% on the entire amount or just the amount thats over 2 million?

You pay 0% tax on the first 150k of your income, 5% on the next 150k, 10% on the next 200k, 15% on the next 250k, etc etc etc, until you get to 30% which you pay from 2 mill to 5 mill, after which you pay 35% on the remainder.

[happydreamer]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

You pay 0% tax on the first 150k of your income, 5% on the next 150k, 10% on the next 200k, 15% on the next 250k, etc etc etc, until you get to 30% which you pay from 2 mill to 5 mill, after which you pay 35% on the remainder.

The answer I was looking for.  thanks Mike

[Paris333]

I am confused I live and I have retired income that is taxed in EU States and I decide to live one year in Thailand. My retire income which have already been taxed in EU it will also be taxed in Thaiand; I have all legal documents from the Tax Authority of my country!

 

[Iamloki]

13 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

Mine is due to start at any time now. I will wait and see what pans out, but it looks like Cambodia may be my next stop as we live close to the border. Or will they implement it too? We will see.

From Google:

 

How to Retire in Cambodia: Costs, Visas and More
SmartAsset
https://smartasset.com › financial-advisor › retire-in-c...
Sep 4, 2566 BE — In Cambodia, your worldwide salary will be subject to Cambodian Tax on Salary of 20%.

[Iamloki]

Just now, Iamloki said:

From Google:

 

How to Retire in Cambodia: Costs, Visas and More
SmartAsset
https://smartasset.com › financial-advisor › retire-in-c...
Sep 4, 2566 BE — In Cambodia, your worldwide salary will be subject to Cambodian Tax on Salary of 20%.

I think most countries tax - unless the home country has a tax treaty to the contrary. That was one of the beauties of Thailand.

[Iamloki]

13 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

They need a more better definition of income - savings are NOT income. If I had worked all my life and had saved and had a million quid and paid UK full tax, I find it hard to believe that Thailand would be trying to tax it a 2nd time.

 

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that only income for the subject tax year - that is brought into Thailand - will be taxed. The catch22 is ensuring proof that the money brought in was earned in a previous tax year. So, if I understand correctly, income from 2023 brought into Thailand is not taxable... but income brought in in 2024 and earned in 2024 will be taxed. Again, if correct the key is traceability and proof.

[SuperSaiyan]

57 minutes ago, Iamloki said:

I visited the Manila and Boracay in 1999... Truly loved the experience (even Manila 555), but really had trouble with the food... If I can't eat the food, it's really hard to spend any real time in a place. Other than that, I might think about it...

Well, it's 2023, and all food is available. Nobody needs to eat food they don't like.

[RichardColeman]

OK, so what could be the outcome of this 'potential' change ? Are you potentially going to be arrested at the airport as you have not paid tax due in a certain year ?  Now THAT would be  worrying issue, having to present your tax declaration when leaving the country. Checking you passport - seeing you have a retirement stamp and then them checking with the tax department before banning you from leaving !

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Iamloki said:

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that only income for the subject tax year - that is brought into Thailand - will be taxed. The catch22 is ensuring proof that the money brought in was earned in a previous tax year. So, if I understand correctly, income from 2023 brought into Thailand is not taxable... but income brought in in 2024 and earned in 2024 will be taxed. Again, if correct the key is traceability and proof.

“The Key”……is the ability of the Thai authorities to implement and manage a scheme that monitors the income tax situation for 3-4 million foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Now, tell me, seriously - how do you REALLY think that they will get on with that.

[roo860]

9 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

“The Key”……is the ability of the Thai authorities to implement and manage a scheme that monitors the income tax situation for 3-4 million foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Now, tell me, seriously - how do you REALLY think that they will get on with that.

It'll be a total cluster <deleted>.

[NanLaew]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I worked with many Phils women and they are just as bad as western women when it comes to relationships, IMO.

I did meet one exception though, but it wasn't meant to be.

I see a trend here.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

“The Key”……is the ability of the Thai authorities to implement and manage a scheme that monitors the income tax situation for 3-4 million foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Now, tell me, seriously - how do you REALLY think that they will get on with that.

Since there are far fewer farang tax dodgers in this blighted realm, it will be loads easier for them to wring any spare shekels out of them than it will be to tax millions of locals. There are more nations coming 'online' with regard to knowing more about your 'resident tourist' or pensioner.

 

For example, the US immigration databases have been connected to more than just law-enforcement ones for quite a while. While undergoing one of my several secondary inspections on entry to the US, I witnessed several passengers being advised of non-immigration affairs that needed to be dealt with. A Venezuelan lady was advised that she was delinquent on divorce and custody hearings while a young German sculptor, based in the US, was advised he needed to resolve outstanding import tax issues regarding some pieces he loaned for display overseas and subsequently brought back to the US. This was over ten years ago and I can only imagine what else these guys can now see on their computer screens.

 

For those that live on extensions and never see an airport, immigration still knows where you live.

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I can't see how this affects me. My pension is paid into an Australian financial institution. I transfer funds periodically to Thailand via WISE.

Unless the Thai government is going to start taxing ALL transfers from foreign countries into Thailand, which would be an administrative nightmare.

If WISE doesn't allocate a tax status to the transaction, any income tax liability is easy for the Thai banks to administer.

 

There's always the Thai-Australian dual taxation treaty to keep you right.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/forms/Guide-to-foreign-income-tax-offset-rules-2023/?anchor=Attachment_A

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps it comes down to proof. If you can prove the money comes from savings then not taxed in LOS. If can't prove it then taxed.

I haven't seen any reference to 'savings' in any edicts from the RD. There are two things they have mentioned frequently that I see people desperately trying to skate around or otherwise assert they don't have.

 

1. Being tax-resident in Thailand.

2. Having income.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

I haven't seen any reference to 'savings' in any edicts from the RD. There are two things they have mentioned frequently that I see people desperately trying to skate around or otherwise assert they don't have.

 

1. Being tax-resident in Thailand.

2. Having income.

Anyone with savings and income in a foreign country would be advised to separate it into two different accounts and to establish a baseline by 1 January 2024. That way, in a couple of years time, there is a reference point regarding what is and what isn't one or the other.

 

Tax residency in any country is determined by passport stamps. For twelve years I did this with various countries to demonstrate where I was and wasn't tax resident, the tax people in all countries wanted to see passport stamps, especially the UK's HMRC.

 

An overseas tax return is one way to determine income, a year end brokerage investment statement is another..

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

The deal was you paid your visa fee and now are spending money in the local economy so why do they need more money? Seems like a money grab from greedy government officials. 

Simply put, they haven't got enough. 

[Mike Teavee]

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

An overseas tax return is one way to determine income, a year end brokerage investment statement is another..

The challenge for Brits & Aussies are that our Tax Year doesn't line up with the Thai Tax year so we can't produce an "Official" tax return in time for the end of March Thai filing deadline. 

 

E.g. I normally receive my Consolidated Tax Certificates (confirmation from my broker/bank how much dividend income/interest I received during that Tax Year) in July which is already 3-4 months past the deadline. 

 

Then there's the problem that this return is "Split Year" according to the Thai Tax year so they would need to accept my (supported with dividend warrants & bank statements) etc.. breakdown of income earned 1st Jan - 5th April from my previous UK Tax return & 6th April - 31st December from the latest return - I can't possibly see how they have the bandwidth to go through all of this so expect they would put the onus on me to have this somehow certified as being true & accurate..

 

 

No thanks... I already keep 2 years spends in the bank over here so easier to just have a 6 month holiday somewhere every 2-3 years during which time I'll top up my accounts & bring no more than 235K (my Tax Free allowance + Deductibles) money across in years that I spend > 180 days in Thailand.

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The challenge for Brits & Aussies are that our Tax Year doesn't line up with the Thai Tax year so we can't produce an "Official" tax return in time for the end of March Thai filing deadline. 

 

E.g. I normally receive my Consolidated Tax Certificates (confirmation from my broker/bank how much dividend income/interest I received during that Tax Year) in July which is already 3-4 months past the deadline. 

 

Then there's the problem that this return is "Split Year" according to the Thai Tax year so they would need to accept my (supported with dividend warrants & bank statements) etc.. breakdown of income earned 1st Jan - 5th April from my previous UK Tax return & 6th April - 31st December from the latest return - I can't possibly see how they have the bandwidth to go through all of this so expect they would put the onus on me to have this somehow certified as being true & accurate..

 

 

No thanks... I already keep 2 years spends in the bank over here so easier to just have a 6 month holiday somewhere every 2-3 years during which time I'll top up my accounts & bring no more than 235K (my Tax Free allowance + Deductibles) money across in years that I spend > 180 days in Thailand.

 

 

 

Because of the misalignment issue, I have used pro-rata with the UK tax authorities and they are fine with this, mind you, the amounts are not huge. This means you take one quarter of income from one year and three quarters from the following year, as long as you're consistent over time it's fine. The other thing you can do is to use FILO or similar if there's only a single account, first in, last out.

[Tom H]

14 hours ago, atpeace said:

There are many workarounds but fail to see how Wise is one of them.  I'm sure I' missing something.

pay your bills with a Baht account abroad from Thailand. You even can use ATM in T.

[mikebell]

15 hours ago, FarAway said:

 

Well my three main points that I am looking for is:

 

- Either no Personal Income Tax or a system of territorial taxation so I pay 0% tax

- a low vaccination rate (as that indicates not blindly following the herd, beneficial for now and the future)

- high amount of personal freedom

 

Laos got nothing of that.

 

So right now I am considering Vanuatu, Paraguay, Bahamas and Belize.

All of them have their upsides and downsides.

 

Vanuatu is a pure tax haven and super peaceful. Low vaccination rate.

Can just buy 10 years residency for whole family online for 12k USD, easiest process in the world. Just 2 weeks from payment to receiving the Permanent Residency.

English-speaking country, low crime rate, super beautiful nature. Low rate of digitalization. But sadly NO FREEHOLD property, this is the biggest downside. So only renting or buying a land, building everything upon and then after 50 years it goes back to the government. Which is really really <deleted> up

 

Paraguay got territorial taxation, low vaccination rate. Many free-thinking expats moved there in the last years. You are even able to officially establish your own colony, like a state in a state. Residency is quite easy to get but my Thai wife needs a visa, we are working on that right now just in case. 

Medium crime rate, but therefore super cheap and amazing freehold property. Like 40 hectares for 120k USD. Perfect to build a farm for the future of our kids.

 

And so on, too lazy to elaborate about Bahamas and Belize, but main downside of them is they have a substantially higher crime rate, which I need to consider as a family father.

What an excellent, well-researched answer; thank you.

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, mikebell said:

What an excellent, well-researched answer; thank you.

I completely agree. Not wishing to rain on anyone's parade however, it's worth noting that:

 

Vanuatu is prone to significant year round seismic and volcanic activity, with associated risks of tsunamis. They are over 2,000 seismic events reported each year, most events are small scale, although larger tremors and quakes of over 5 on the Richter scale do occur on a regular basis.

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/vanuatu/natural-disasters#:~:text=Vanuatu is prone to significant,occur on a regular basis.

[Marco100]

By May 2024 Thailand will join the CRS & Automatic Exchange of Information .

With that coming they will have control over those who declare their residence in Thailand ( individuals or beneficiaries ) as overseas banks will have to communicate to Thai Fiscal authorities accounts , names n balances .

With that the opportunity to tax residents is quite appealing ...

[observer90210]

Not to mention the trap the other way round with the automatic exchange of tax information. 

 

Could concern foreigners who have purchased  property or deposited funds in Thailand that are not declared to their respective tax revenue departments in their home countries.

 

Not surprising why people are rushing now to sell and nobody is wanting to buy.

Edited October 13, 2023 by observer90210

[BritScot]

19 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

as to whether was Thaksin a good leader, I think it is safe to say that he was not the worst.  ths military elite rule has hurt.

 

As to Generals making billions it is easy.  First, they all come from families that are well if not military hierarchy.  They pay for nothing.  So they can invest their money.

I am sure that a certain portion of the cost of things sees its way to their pockets.

They are the currupt of the currupt. Most do not come from rich families "middle class at best". I was married to a woman from the dirt poor side of one of the generals who was not rich family. I think two sides were into printing "his side prospered quite a bit from his service". There is also a myth that they marry money this also on a whole is untrue. If you can remember some scandles like the misunderstanding of the general who put the whole budget into his personal account, the currupt Park that that when some very brave students went by train to protest "train stopped and they were arrested". The list is endless but while the generals stole the country at the end of a gun reporting stopped. Last point remember the little strip of land purchase before the tanks rolled that no one was allowed to talk about... watches. All should be audited but who can do as last external auditors called into thailand was murdered.

[Jaggg88]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:46 AM, webfact said:

Revenue Department in Thailand to widen its tax base, targeting tax residents in the kingdom deriving income from abroad.

That should read 'deriving untaxed income from abroad (and bringing onshore to Thailand)'. Income that has already been taxed under double taxation agreements is unchanged and if that is your only source of income in Thailand then your situation is unchanged too.

[Front Row]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:59 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

Do you have any figures, surveys or, you know, facts to back up what you claim? Or did you just make it up? I'd guess - guess, not claim are as you do - that 90% are the 'whatsoevers', which is normal people. Where are you, by the way, and if in Thailand which category do you fit into?

You know what they say, every accusation is an admission.

[JCauto]

23 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

YOu seem to have an idea about this how does it work if our hoe country is already deducting tax revenue from payments

Is "hoe country" a typo or intended? ????

[Iamloki]

20 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

“The Key”……is the ability of the Thai authorities to implement and manage a scheme that monitors the income tax situation for 3-4 million foreigners living in Thailand.

 

Now, tell me, seriously - how do you REALLY think that they will get on with that.

Really Sticky... I have no idea - except that the onus of proof will be on the tax resident.