Old age pensions of the World

[georgegeorgia]

1 hour ago, Lancelot01 said:

Also, am I right in saying that the amount of any other pension payments (from outside Australia) is deducted from an individuals Australian pension?

Yes that's right 

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, Lancelot01 said:

Also, am I right in saying that the amount of any other pension payments (from outside Australia) is deducted from an individuals Australian pension?

Yes they are/were  income and assets tested.

[Dan O]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:55 PM, thaicurious said:

US is a bit more complex than just a 25% reduction for early retirement

 

For one thing,

Early or Late Retirement (ssa.gov) 

"A worker can choose to retire as early as age 62, but doing so may result in a reduction of as much as 30 percent..

In the case of early retirement, a benefit is reduced 5/9 of one percent for each month before normal retirement age, up to 36 months. If the number of months exceeds 36, then the benefit is further reduced 5/12 of one percent per month."   For another, What Social Security Could Look Like in 2035 (yahoo.com) "If you plan to rely on the program in 2035, keep in mind there's a chance you could receive less in Social Security benefits than you might have expected. If no changes are made to deal with the trust fund shortfall, benefits will have to be reduced by 24.9%, according to the 2022 annual report from the board of trustees."   So if the avg benefit now is $1,782/month. minus up to 30% for drawing early = $1,247 minus another future cut in year 2035 = $936.80, and that after 12 years of inflation of which social security will only partly keep up with.   Burdening that further is the loss of Medicare you might be eligible for (depending on work history) benefits of which do not transfer overseas. The best bet then might be paying into Medicare instead of private insurance & living in Mexico, not Thailand, to benefit from reduced cost of living while remaining accessible to American healthcare, or simply moving to, yikes, Mississippi. Never been but gonna guess not a lot of Thai food there.

All your comments on future actions are just speculation although well worth paying attention to it.

[thaicurious]

15 hours ago, Dan O said:

All your comments on future actions are just speculation although well worth paying attention to it.

As of this writing, benefits are indeed set to be reduced; that's not speculation. That's a fact known today. Speculation would be hoping the government fixes Social Security before then so that benefits are not reduced at all. Speculation might also be the possibility that if SS is not fixed, then maybe greater reduction would come from those getting larger payouts, with lesser or no reductions from lower payouts, or possibly reductions by other means testings.

 

Here is the official 2023 report https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TRSUM/ which reduces the reduction slightly but advances the date by two years over my previous post.

"The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund will be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2033, one year earlier than reported last year. At that time, the fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing program income will be sufficient to pay 77 percent of scheduled benefits."

 

As to the Medicare info (being not transferable overseas), that's also fact, not speculation. I merely gave an example of how that fact might be navigated. What could be speculated there however would be hoping for a possibility of Medicare one day being transferable. I recall years back a Philippine American group lobbying that but I'm not aware of their success or of continuance of similar efforts.

[Dan O]

5 hours ago, thaicurious said:

As of this writing, benefits are indeed set to be reduced; that's not speculation. That's a fact known today. Speculation would be hoping the government fixes Social Security before then so that benefits are not reduced at all. Speculation might also be the possibility that if SS is not fixed, then maybe greater reduction would come from those getting larger payouts, with lesser or no reductions from lower payouts, or possibly reductions by other means testings.

 

Here is the official 2023 report https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TRSUM/ which reduces the reduction slightly but advances the date by two years over my previous post.

"The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund will be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2033, one year earlier than reported last year. At that time, the fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing program income will be sufficient to pay 77 percent of scheduled benefits."

 

As to the Medicare info (being not transferable overseas), that's also fact, not speculation. I merely gave an example of how that fact might be navigated. What could be speculated there however would be hoping for a possibility of Medicare one day being transferable. I recall years back a Philippine American group lobbying that but I'm not aware of their success or of continuance of similar efforts.

That report is a status report done regularly based on current condition and a projection of what would be available in the future should no action be done. Its not locked in currently to cut benefits but may well occur along with other actions to correct the future position. Thats speculation at this point. Pulling singular status statements out of the overall report is helpful (and smart) to monitor the situation moving forward  but not completely accurate. 

 

Medicare being portable would be nice but irrelevant to the OP topic

[thaicurious]

5 hours ago, Dan O said:

That report is a status report done regularly based on current condition and a projection of what would be available in the future should no action be done. Its not locked in currently to cut benefits but may well occur along with other actions to correct the future position. Thats speculation at this point. Pulling singular status statements out of the overall report is helpful (and smart) to monitor the situation moving forward  but not completely accurate. 

 

Medicare being portable would be nice but irrelevant to the OP topic

That something isn't locked into or out of changing tomorrow doesn't make it a speculation today.

 

Water that is water today is water today. It is stating a fact to say the water today is indeed water; it is not pondering a speculation that the water is now water. Everyone today can try walking on the water that is water today and everyone will have the same experience of knowing the water is water in fact, not water in speculation.

 

That water today might be ice tomorrow if the weather turns cold enough for long enough, that is speculation for it exhibits conjecture of what might be future changed conditions without current evidence of those such conditions coming to pass. It might wind up being a warmer winter than usual so the water might never freeze, for instance. But even though the water today might turn to ice (or remain water) tomorrow is a speculation, that doesn't change the none speculative fact that water today is water today. And if you think that saying water today is a speculation just because it can change to ice tomorrow, go ahead today and try walking on it.

 

Just as acting on what is known now, people can plan based on what nonspeculative facts are known today and both can keep your head above water. Then should the pond of speculation freeze over, well, lucky us, we've got a whole new surface to skate upon.

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, thaicurious said:

That something isn't locked into or out of changing tomorrow doesn't make it a speculation today.

 

Water that is water today is water today. It is stating a fact to say the water today is indeed water; it is not pondering a speculation that the water is now water. Everyone today can try walking on the water that is water today and everyone will have the same experience of knowing the water is water in fact, not water in speculation.

 

That water today might be ice tomorrow if the weather turns cold enough for long enough, that is speculation for it exhibits conjecture of what might be future changed conditions without current evidence of those such conditions coming to pass. It might wind up being a warmer winter than usual so the water might never freeze, for instance. But even though the water today might turn to ice (or remain water) tomorrow is a speculation, that doesn't change the none speculative fact that water today is water today. And if you think that saying water today is a speculation just because it can change to ice tomorrow, go ahead today and try walking on it.

 

Just as acting on what is known now, people can plan based on what nonspeculative facts are known today and both can keep your head above water. Then should the pond of speculation freeze over, well, lucky us, we've got a whole new surface to skate upon.

That is a wonky metaphor for the situation. That report is a status report. It is good information to know and follow but it does not indicate a cut in benefits at this point but does point to the need to act on the system before 2033 and they run out of funding. 

[thaicurious]

19 hours ago, Dan O said:

That is a wonky metaphor for the situation. That report is a status report. It is good information to know and follow but it does not indicate a cut in benefits at this point but does point to the need to act on the system before 2033 and they run out of funding. 

 

What you earlier called projection is not the magical thinking or even a strategizing based on the possibilities of any various speculations; rather, it is the mathematics of known variables even if those might vary to some degree (future # of deaths, # of workers, GDP #s, caps on taxed income levels, etc). The current status report says as currently structured, there will be cuts, period. (and note that the last time there were changes was decades ago during Reagan. Those changes to fund further barely passed and only with taxing for the first time these very benefits).

 

That there will be cuts based on current knowns is called a (verifiable) fact, not called a (best guess) speculation even as it projects into the future because it represents the current conditions. These current conditions existed yesterday, they exist today and they will exist tomorrow barring outside force to change them. The statement was not a speculation yesterday about today, rather it was just as true today as it was yesterday. Nor is it a speculation today about today. Nor even a speculation today about tomorrow because that projection is not speculating on possible future changed conditions. So that part of the statement is a fact even if such a fact might be later changed within the context of some future changed conditions about which you are free to speculate but your speculating into your future that does not make the facts today a speculation today.

 

So when I say the current condition of SSI is something people ought consider in planning for their futures, my suggestion is based on a fact, not on a speculation. Speculating on what might be tomorrow based in part upon the facts of today does not transmute today's facts into speculations.

 

That water now is water now is a fact

That SSI now is set to be insolvent & thereby reduce payouts is a fact

That water might evaporate to become gas or freeze to become ice in the future should conditions change is a speculation

That SSI might continue into the extended future to provide the same benefits people count on today is gas, is ice, is a speculation

[Sigmund]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:17 PM, observer90210 said:

It's not's only about age or one's country. It's also about the job involved. Speed train drivers of the previous generations in France were retiring until few years ago at 55 provided they did their entire career with the State Run train (SNCF) with a pension that many would envy. Same for the air trafic controllers in Spain or France with retirement at aroung 50 something.

 

The Golden Globe goes to the Swiss with many public service officials (police, fire etc) who retire after 30-35  yerars of service with pensions going anywhere from 7'400 Swiss Francs per month to approx 10'000 CHF/month (before tax) for the senior officers.

Even by German or Nordic standards, Switzerland remains the gem of the gems. Their middle classes are amongst the richest in the world.  But very tough to get a work permit as the first political party put to power, was chosen for it's anti-European Union stance. The Swiss being neutral, do not want any European Union or any other country meddling in their domestic affairs.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Sigmund

[Dan O]

6 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

 

What you earlier called projection is not the magical thinking or even a strategizing based on the possibilities of any various speculations; rather, it is the mathematics of known variables even if those might vary to some degree (future # of deaths, # of workers, GDP #s, caps on taxed income levels, etc). The current status report says as currently structured, there will be cuts, period. (and note that the last time there were changes was decades ago during Reagan. Those changes to fund further barely passed and only with taxing for the first time these very benefits).

 

That there will be cuts based on current knowns is called a (verifiable) fact, not called a (best guess) speculation even as it projects into the future because it represents the current conditions. These current conditions existed yesterday, they exist today and they will exist tomorrow barring outside force to change them. The statement was not a speculation yesterday about today, rather it was just as true today as it was yesterday. Nor is it a speculation today about today. Nor even a speculation today about tomorrow because that projection is not speculating on possible future changed conditions. So that part of the statement is a fact even if such a fact might be later changed within the context of some future changed conditions about which you are free to speculate but your speculating into your future that does not make the facts today a speculation today.

 

So when I say the current condition of SSI is something people ought consider in planning for their futures, my suggestion is based on a fact, not on a speculation. Speculating on what might be tomorrow based in part upon the facts of today does not transmute today's facts into speculations.

 

That water now is water now is a fact

That SSI now is set to be insolvent & thereby reduce payouts is a fact

That water might evaporate to become gas or freeze to become ice in the future should conditions change is a speculation

That SSI might continue into the extended future to provide the same benefits people count on today is gas, is ice, is a speculation

Your trying to be a word smith to walk around what the report actually says to prove your right and it doesnt pan out.   A currently produced status report that indicates that IF nothing is done there will be an issue in the future and providing a mathematical calculation to show what the extent of the impact would be IF nothing is done is speculation and nothing more.  Will there be a problem should nothing be done, absolutely. Are there any plans to avoid that scenario, absolutely. What will be the final outcome or change as a result to deal with the issue, no idea. Should people pay attention to the situation and plan accordingly to protect yourself ABSOLUTELY.  END of STORY and this discussion. Have a great day  

[thaicurious]

14 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Your trying to be a word smith to walk around what the report actually says to prove your right and it doesnt pan out.   A currently produced status report that indicates that IF nothing is done there will be an issue in the future and providing a mathematical calculation to show what the extent of the impact would be IF nothing is done is speculation and nothing more.  Will there be a problem should nothing be done, absolutely. Are there any plans to avoid that scenario, absolutely. What will be the final outcome or change as a result to deal with the issue, no idea. Should people pay attention to the situation and plan accordingly to protect yourself ABSOLUTELY.  END of STORY and this discussion. Have a great day  

 

Quote

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TRSUM/  ...This document summarizes the findings of the 2023 reports...this year's reports show that:

 

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund will be able to pay 100 percent of total scheduled benefits until 2033, one year earlier than reported last year. At that time, the fund's reserves will become depleted and continuing program income will be sufficient to pay 77 percent of scheduled benefits.

 

I get that you don't like it, but that's the fact.

Any "ifs" you or anyone cares to insert, those are the speculations

 

Your inability to delineate speculations from facts is not my wordsmithing. You have a nice day too. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by thaicurious

[georgegeorgia]

2 hours ago, Sigmund said:

Even by German or Nordic standards, Switzerland remains the gem of the gems. Their middle classes are amongst the richest in the world.  But very tough to get a work permit as the first political party put to power, was chosen for it's anti-European Union stance. The Swiss being neutral, do not want any European Union or any other country meddling in their domestic affairs.

What is their old age pension like? (Switzerland)

Is it 67yo?

 

Can anyone tell me if Finland get any old age pension?

Edited October 27, 2023 by georgegeorgia

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:10 AM, Bobthegimp said:

Does your medical system euthanize people yet?  Ours killed 12k last year and the numbers are growing. 

 

MAID = Medical Assistance in Dying.  Shortages of GPs, long wait times for specialist treatment BUT plenty of money for euthanasia!  Expanding like McD's.  Woe Kanada.

 

 

[The Old Bull]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:15 PM, gargamon said:

I see you obviously haven't needed to use the health care system in Canada. Wait until you need to use it. Need a specialist? Get in line and wait months/years to get in to see them. The free long term care consists of them keeping you locked in a room and sedated most of the day. Need the ER? Waits over 10 hours are normal.

 

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap. And guess what? It never snows in Thailand. 

Canada has three pensions, don't forget the Supplement that brings it up to about $2000 per month but you need to reside in Canada 26 weeks plus a day to get this. I have no problem accessing healthcare when needed. Sounds like you have been taken in by the propaganda US insurance companies put out.

[Bobthegimp]

2 hours ago, Woke to Sounds of Horking said:

 

MAID = Medical Assistance in Dying.  Shortages of GPs, long wait times for specialist treatment BUT plenty of money for euthanasia!  Expanding like McD's.  Woe Kanada.

 

 

They encourage the crippled poor people and aged to take the needle.  Welcome to the new Canada.  

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, The Old Bull said:

Canada has three pensions, don't forget the Supplement that brings it up to about $2000 per month but you need to reside in Canada 26 weeks plus a day to get tfhis. I have no problem accessing healthcare when needed. Sounds like you have been taken in by the propaganda US insurance companies put out.

The supplement is essentially welfare. You have to be very poor to receive it. How sad for you that you can collect it.

 

As for the US propaganda, I lived in the US over 10 years. I needed a hernia surgery in Canada a few years back. After waiting about 16 months they finally got around to scheduling it. Two weeks before the scheduled surgery it was cancelled with no new date set. Thankfully I don't qualify for the supplement, so I flew down to Florida and had it done there. I have medicare because I worked in the US 10 years. Talked to the surgeon Friday, flew in Monday, met surgeon Tuesday, and had the operation 3 days later on Friday. Propaganda? I think maybe the Canadian propaganda about the US system is what you are alluding to. Yes, not everyone is covered there, but if you are it's much superior. 

[gargamon]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:53 AM, Northstar1 said:

Being Canadian I too am entitled to 2 pensions.

I can take my Canada pension at 60 at a reduced rate and old age pension at 65.

I can wait till 65 for my Canada pension at full rate.

along with free health care, free prescription drugs, dental work can be deducted from my tax to a certain amount.

free long term care when I need my diapers changed!

along with my work pension.

I feel fortunate to live in Canada 🇨🇦 

I feel fortunate to be able to live wherever I want and able to afford whatever health care I need. Canada is a good place to live if you want to be on welfare. 

[TigerandDog]

"With Australia the worst waiting until 67yo nowadays but must be residing in the Country 2 years beforehand to gain access to overseas payment."

 

Not entirely correct. The need to be residing in country for 2 years to gain portability to an overseas account ONLY applies if you have resided OUTSIDE Australia for the 2 years preceding being eligible to receive the aged pension. If you've resided in Australia for the 2 years preceding age pension eligibility then as long as the working life requirement is met, the ONLY requirement is that you MUST be in Australia to receive your first pension payment. After that you give them your overseas bank details and the pension is remitted every 4 weeks.

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:08 PM, Bobthegimp said:

They encourage the crippled poor people and aged to take the needle.  Welcome to the new Canada.  

Don't forget the so called mentally ill.  I've often wondered if Kanada - like Aus and NZ - are test labs for, you know, the "whole build back better" and "you will own squat, eat bugs and smile" agendas. At the very least, all that money and manpower into a euthansia programme smells like population control to me.  I read Brave New World in high school.  Didnt expect to be living it.