Cholestrerol levels..

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

So don't buy the fancy-pants name brand, and don't buy it at the overpriced hospital pharmacy.  Take one of the other statins, most commonly available here in Thailand I believe is Bestatin.

 

But if you absolutely, positively need Lipitor, buy the generic version for $10/month.

 

https://bangkokdrugstore.com/product/lipostat-atorvastatin-20-mg-box-of-30-tablets/

Good idea. 

And perhaps consider supplementing with CoEnzyme Q10 as apparently the statins deplete this in the body.

 

Personally, I try to tweak the body with diet and avoid statins. 

[atpeace]

10 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

No they aren't.

 

 

Since you aren't like a car, you'd best get regular medical checkups to ascertain the state of your health and, if needed, take steps to prevent any underlying conditions from becoming life-threatening. See @newnative 's post.

 

 

And checkups promote discovery of your true medical condition, are evaluated as part of your history by a doctor, and may help determine your medical history, perhaps critically.

 

Your idea just leads to seeing a doc after a condition has become symptomatic, already done a lot of irreversible damage, and now needs expensive, perhaps lifelong care. Duh.

 

 

Having a snapshot of the day can be extremely helpful towards understanding your health. Some tests reflect past history as well, such as the important HbA1C.

 

 

But one doesn't need to go to a private hospital for a checkup. And private hospitals run yearly promotions. Phyathai has one running now, and I doubt it's a great earner. It is a way of finding new customers, but hardly the only one. And customers may choose treatment, if needed, at a different hospital. 

 

 

 

Utter nonsense. Besides, the lab reports clearly note any anomalies found.

 

Excellent example of what bad advice is offered on this forum. I recall that kwilco has insisted on disagreeing with, even berating, Sheryl and ended up with egg on his face.

 

 

Thailand arguably is the easiest country in the world to get general health checkups.  Can walk into even rural hospitals and with a google translate put together what you want done during the checkup.  The process  is empowering but person getting the checkup needs to invest a little time in knowing how the numbers apply to themselves.  For example, don't test liver functionality during an intense training block, the numbers would be almost meaningless because of the cellular damage caused by training.

 

I'm of average intelligence but other than the first few checkups over a decade ago in Thailand, I have been much better at evaluating the checkup numbers than the doctors who in many cases have provided bad info and rarely take the time to explain why certain numbers might be high or low.  Nothing against doctors and without them I would be not here today but as far as checkups, the person getting the checkup in most situations should be able to better evaluate the numbers than the doctor.  If the numbers are terrible a doctor might be your only hope.

[hotandsticky]

18 hours ago, atpeace said:

Yes and is almost meaningless unless the three variable that make up the total number are evaluated individually.

 

 

Exactly my point.

[BigStar]

13 hours ago, kwilco said:

You're being very naive and in fact your ideas on why "check-ups might be useful are in fact the very reasons why they aren't.

I think it can be difficult for people to admit thy have been conned by their doctor or hospital all these years.

at several points you make 1.     Appeal to authority - to claim my argument is wrong because of claims of another “expert”.

Te fact is you are attacking the messenger not the message. In reality you are just displaying your own cognitive dissonance.

 

In fact, you yourself made the claim to authority, so you're merely contradicting yourself.

 

20 hours ago, kwilco said:

you need treatment based on your life history by a doctor that either knows you or has your full medical history.

 

And further are appealing to yourself as the authority, with implication that each person is his own authority.🤣

 

Your argument is wrong simply because it's ignorant, misguided, and dangerous. I've seen firsthand its unfortunate consequences. Nobody cares if you follow your own advice, but I'm happy to warn others to ignore it.

 

 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, atpeace said:

the person getting the checkup in most situations should be able to better evaluate the numbers than the doctor. 

I totally agreed with you until this. The average person hasn't a clue about how to evaluate his numbers. The report itself will show which numbers are out of normal range. Then the question is how to bring them into normal range. Some of them are rather obscure. Even a knowledgeable person won't be able to evaluate them off the top of his head, and in context with the other numbers perhaps. (On the forum, we seem to have a weekly question about what a member's blood pressure numbers mean.) The GP will have some idea, however. So you take that into account and do some of your own research AND then see a specialist if it seems necessary. In fact the GP may suggest you do that. No, you don't have to accept his recommendation; ask Sheryl first. 👍 

 

5 hours ago, atpeace said:

If the numbers are terrible a doctor might be your only hope.

 

Yes. Now, that said, all docs everywhere are notorious for prescribing meds and surgery instead of lifestyle changes. They hardly hear of the latter in med school, and they're notoriously out of date, esp. in Thailand.

 

In fairness, that's what patients want to hear anyway. Few, if any, want to consider lifestyle changes and would ignore that advice anyway. We see the evidence here on the forum daily. If they had been receptive already, they probably wouldn't be having the problem until much later, if ever.  

 

 

[gargamon]

16 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Cholesterol testing requires 12 hour fasting.

If she had breakfast, the results would be invalid.

Sorry, that's long out of date. No fasting required now in most countries, US and Canada for sure. 

[NoDisplayName]

14 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Sorry, that's long out of date. No fasting required now in most countries, US and Canada for sure. 

 

Sometimes.  If not already taking statins.

 

Quote

The truth is, your cholesterol can be tested without fasting. In the past, experts believed fasting ahead of time produces the most accurate results. This is because your low-density lipoproteins (LDL) — also known as “bad” cholesterol — may be affected by what you’ve recently eaten. Your levels of triglycerides (another type of fat in your blood) may also be affected by a recent meal.

 

New guidelines, published in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology, say that people who aren’t taking statins may not need to fast before having their blood tested for cholesterol levels.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/fast-before-cholesterol-test#fasting

 

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2018.11.003

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by NoDisplayName

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

fact, you yourself made the claim to authority

Where? - I don't think you actually know what the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority" actually is. do you? 

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Sometimes.  If not already taking statins.

 

 

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2018.11.003

 

 

No fasting is needed for a cholesterol test.

Sometimes a fasting sample is required for a full lipid profile including cholesterol.

 

The problem is that there needs to be a reason for further cholesterol tests or treatment - whether there is a problem - we all produce cholesterol - is it diet or hereditary or disease - checkups don't answer any of this.

With checkups a hospital sets up a series of tests they can do quickly and cheaply and then sells them to the unsuspecting public - there is even the hilarious perception that the more money you pay or more tests you have make you leave feeling more healthy(!?!?!)

Every single person is different and will react to tests differently - you need much more knowledge of the patient that a few lab figures to work out if or how they should be treated - but the patients/customers leave feeling reassured (for the next year - why a year? - why not 14 months, 5 moths or any other random number??) and the hospital makes a quick buck

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Where? - I don't think you actually know what the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority" actually is. do you? 

Duh. You'll bicker and throw out your autodidactic nonsense forever. All that needs saying about your "advice" has been said.

Edited October 29, 2023 by BigStar

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

autodidactic

Seriously? You really think that? No wonder you can't come up with a valid argument.

just because you can't understand it doesn't make it nonsense.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

No fasting is needed for a cholesterol test.

Sometimes a fasting sample is required for a full lipid profile including cholesterol.

 

....

 

So you're sayin' I don't need to fast for a cholesterol test unless I'm takin' a complete cholesterol test that includes testing cholesterol?

 

Gee, thanks doc!  Glad to see your 12 years of medical school done payed off.

 

Oh, by the way, it hurts when I do this......

 

 

[save the frogs]

For those of you consulting doctors and taking statins, have your doctors scared you off foods high in cholesterol like eggs? 

You do realize that processed carbs increasing triglyceride levels is the main problem, not foods like eggs, right? 

[kwilco]

59 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

So you're sayin' I don't need to fast for a cholesterol test unless I'm takin' a complete cholesterol test that includes testing cholesterol?

 

Gee, thanks doc!  Glad to see your 12 years of medical school done payed off.

 

Oh, by the way, it hurts when I do this......

 

 

Cholesterol is a type of lipid - so if you are having the whole thing teste then you need to fast - cholesterol is a lipid but not all lipids are cholesterol.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[NoDisplayName]

12 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Cholesterol is a type of lipid - so if you are having the whole thing teste then you need to fast - cholesterol is a lipid but not all lipids are cholesterol.

 

What's yer point?

 

S'far as I can tell, every post in this thread is referencing a lipid panel ("cholesterol test") measuring total cholesterol, HDL, LDL, triglycerides, and possibly also VLDL.

 

How often is a simple total cholesterol test given?  I dunno, but probably not very often, if the evil and corrupt medical profession is out to scam patients with unnecessary tests.

[4MyEgo]

On 10/28/2023 at 11:12 AM, Luuk Chaai said:

Poor diet.  such as carbs / sugar/seed oils  ( Rice/noodles/bread/pasta/soda/canola,corn,sunflower,peanut oils  etc.

cut out the  poison for a month and go get your leves checked

 

You hit the nail on the head.

[kwilco]

Just now, save the frogs said:

For those of you consulting doctors and taking statins, have your doctors scared you off foods high in cholesterol like eggs? 

You do realize that processed carbs increasing triglyceride levels is the main problem, not foods like eggs, right? 

 

Your diet should be tailormade by consulting with your doctor - most of your cholesterol (80%) is produced by the liver, the rest comes through diet - the problem is when your body can't get the balance right. Most people do this through diet - but obviously the range is limited. Some people have a disease that prevents them from regulating natural levels of cholesterol.

There is “good” and “bad” cholesterol – the one you don’t want is the one that clogs up your arteries

Fixating on one food is just ridiculous. As it tries to imply that that food is “safer” because of others foods producing cholesterol – a false logic if ever there was.

Eggs are high cholesterol, but low in saturated fat, so is lobster, prawns and squid - and there's a lot of prawn and squid in a Thai diet. Farmed prawns are also dreadful for the environment. Offal is low in saturated fat too.

Cholesterol is only found in foods that come from animals, there is no cholesterol in foods that come from plants. So, there is no cholesterol in fruit, vegetables, grains, seeds, nuts, beans, peas and lentils.

 

The worst foods for high cholesterol, given their high saturated fat content, include: Red meat, like beef, pork, and lamb, as well as processed meats like sausage. Full-fat dairy, like cream, whole milk, and butter. Baked goods and sweets – - fried foods, and baked goods are notorious for raising levels

 - i.e – a typical overweight expat’s diet.

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

How often is a simple total cholesterol test given?

thumb prick - not all lipids.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:12 AM, Luuk Chaai said:

No such thing as good or bad cholesterol .. 

Yes there is.

[kwilco]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:12 AM, Luuk Chaai said:

Poor diet.  such as carbs / sugar/seed oils  ( Rice/noodles/bread/pasta/soda/canola,corn,sunflower,peanut oils  etc.

you realise there is no cholesterol in plant products?

[save the frogs]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

The worst foods for high cholesterol, given their high saturated fat content, include: Red meat, like beef, pork, and lamb, as well as processed meats like sausage. Full-fat dairy, like cream, whole milk, and butter. Baked goods and sweets – - fried foods, and baked goods are notorious for raising levels

 - i.e – a typical overweight expat’s diet.

 

Animal foods high in cholesterol are not the problem.

Processed carbs are the problem because they elevetate triglyceride levels. 

 

 

[kwilco]

26 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Animal foods high in cholesterol are not the problem.

Processed carbs are the problem because they elevetate triglyceride levels. 

 

 

I'm sorry but you are Googling too much or listening to your steroid salesman

 

I should add that the advice I’ve received over the years from doctors in Thailand hospitals has ranged from useless to ignorant to bizarre – a real insight into the failings of the Thai healthcare system. …and explains the availability of fast food inside hospital premises and the shops selling TCM

 

The thing to remember is that food is not medicine -  it is not a case of one or the other - you are creating a false dichotomy and that is both unhelpful and misleading.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, kwilco said:

thumb prick - not all lipids.

 

That's not the answer to the question.

 

How often is that done, and are any posters here talking about lipid panels and HDL/LDL actually referring to thumbprick testing?

 

I would guess, although I'm not an authority, that nobody here is talking about those little home DIY test kits or the county fair community health booth screens.

 

But I'll grant you that.  Fasting not necessary for the common thumbprick total cholesterol only test, but fasting recommended for a lipid panel cholesterol test.

 

[BigStar]

21 hours ago, kwilco said:

precisely nothing to do with the checkups sold by hospitals

On the contrary, it's included according to the checkup package you choose. I had one myself in a Phyathai Hsp promotion package. And it was comforting to learn of my low score. 🙂 

[save the frogs]

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I'm sorry but you are Googling too much or listening to your steroid salesman

 

I should add that the advice I’ve received over the years from doctors in Thailand hospitals has ranged from useless to ignorant to bizarre – a real insight into the failings of the Thai healthcare system. …and explains the availability of fast food inside hospital premises and the shops selling TCM

 

The fast food inside the hospitals and bad dietary advice keeps you dependent on the medications and the for-profit medical system. 

Not just in Thailand. The West too. 

 

[kwilco]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

The fast food inside the hospitals and bad dietary advice keeps you dependent on the medications and the for-profit medical system. 

Not just in Thailand. The West too. 

 

yes - you are a classic conspiracy theorist.

[atpeace]

41 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Animal foods high in cholesterol are not the problem.

Processed carbs are the problem because they elevetate triglyceride levels. 

 

 

There have been research showing high cholesterol foods are not an issue and others that it is.  It makes one dizzy trying to keep up with all the opinions. 

 

As for me( off the  charts low triglyceride of 44), I eat low cholesterol, mostly highly processes foods  that are high in protein generally.  My friends that eat similar to me(healthy) are also healthy and the ones with a high cholesterol diet are unhealthy.  Sometimes things are much more simple than the the diet experts make them out to be.

Edited October 29, 2023 by atpeace

[kwilco]

24 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

The fast food inside the hospitals and bad dietary advice keeps you dependent on the medications and the for-profit medical system. 

Not just in Thailand. The West too. 

 

you are trying to put forward an alternative reality that is simplistic, inaccurate and conspiratorial and shows a lack of understanding of how living bodies work.

Most conspiracy theories are based on a smidgeon of science and the bucket load of pseudoscience - it is designed to interest and fire-up the ignorant.

Most of the posts on this thread show a blind faith in white coats that relies on ignorance which is a great place to start a conspiracy theory - whether it is eggs or  an obsession with single issues (e.g. triglycerides) that someone has googled - you need to see dispassionately the whole picture. - it can't be seen through a tinfoil hat.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kwilco

[Luuk Chaai]

On 10/29/2023 at 7:31 PM, kwilco said:

 

Your diet should be tailormade by consulting with your doctor - most of your cholesterol (80%) is produced by the liver, the rest comes through diet - the problem is when your body can't get the balance right. Most people do this through diet - but obviously the range is limited. Some people have a disease that prevents them from regulating natural levels of cholesterol.

There is “good” and “bad” cholesterol – the one you don’t want is the one that clogs up your arteries

Fixating on one food is just ridiculous. As it tries to imply that that food is “safer” because of others foods producing cholesterol – a false logic if ever there was.

Eggs are high cholesterol, but low in saturated fat, so is lobster, prawns and squid - and there's a lot of prawn and squid in a Thai diet. Farmed prawns are also dreadful for the environment. Offal is low in saturated fat too.

Cholesterol is only found in foods that come from animals, there is no cholesterol in foods that come from plants. So, there is no cholesterol in fruit, vegetables, grains, seeds, nuts, beans, peas and lentils.

 

The worst foods for high cholesterol, given their high saturated fat content, include: Red meat, like beef, pork, and lamb, as well as processed meats like sausage. Full-fat dairy, like cream, whole milk, and butter. Baked goods and sweets – - fried foods, and baked goods are notorious for raising levels

 - i.e – a typical overweight expat’s diet.

The worst foods for high cholesterol, given their high saturated fat content, include: Red meat, like beef, and lamb,  Full-fat dairy, like cream, , and butter.

Eggs are the perfect food !

Totally backwards ,,   these are what you should be eating

baked goods,sweetes,"milk ..  loaded with grains, man made emulsions and sugar ...   here;s your killers

[Luuk Chaai]

On 10/29/2023 at 7:35 PM, kwilco said:

you realise there is no cholesterol in plant products?

and zero goodness,     # 1  Fiber.    that you body absolutely does not need even  1 miniscule drop of

good example of  what is fiber..   cellulose ..   totally undigestble. zero nutrients, and oh ,,  another name for celluose..   SAWDUST