Electricity may exceed ฿4 per unit next year

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Photoguy21 said:

You think so? Wow I think you are in for a major shock. To upgrade the national infrastructure will cost a fortune

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gweiloman

[Bobthegimp]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

Yes, that's why new charging stations have been built all over the country, so people can go there for 3 hours after their work day to charge their car. 

 

*Disclaimer * 

 

 I neither own an EV nor did I think through this post. 

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, Bobthegimp said:

 

Yes, that's why new charging stations have been built all over the country, so people can go there for 3 hours after their work day to charge their car. 

 

*Disclaimer * 

 

 I neither own an EV nor did I think through this post. 

Sounds to me like you’re misinformed. Firstly, it doesn’t take 3 hours to charge the average EV. At fast DC charging stations, maybe just 10 mins if charging daily after work. However most EV owners charge at home and this is typically done when they are cuddling their teerak in bed so effectively, the time spent is about 15 seconds (not the cuddling but inserting the charger into the car).

 

Your last sentence is an extremely accurate statement of your circumstance.

[redwood1]

57 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

 

 

 

[Bobthegimp]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Sounds to me like you’re misinformed. Firstly, it doesn’t take 3 hours to charge the average EV. At fast DC charging stations, maybe just 10 mins if charging daily after work. However most EV owners charge at home and this is typically done when they are cuddling their teerak in bed so effectively, the time spent is about 15 seconds (not the cuddling but inserting the charger into the car).

 

Your last sentence is an extremely accurate statement of your circumstance.

 

https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2023/10/25/the_political_risks_of_mandating_evs_for_everyone_988506.html

 

This is a balanced, well written essay about EVs.  One of the similes used in the essay is the comparison between airplanes and helicopters in the aviation industry. The link just came up in one of my feeds.  Google isn't watching us. 

 

It's worth a read if anyone has the time and interest in the subject.  

 

https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/

 

Dr. Tim Morgan discusses the theory that all economies are based on surplus energy.  He's a big supporter of alternative energy sources, yet provides a balanced and realistic appraisal of their viability.  Apolitical.

 

The link is to the blog, not to any particular entry to support a position I take on the subject.  The comments on his blog are intelligent and appear to be carefully considered.  

[Bobthegimp]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

 

 

How big is your solar array?  From those numbers I'd guess around 2kw. Do you have an inverter for the car charger, or does the power feed directly into the grid?  Do you have storage as well? 

 

 

[AhFarangJa]

13 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

The CEO of Toyota has come out and stated they are stopping the production of EV's. Maybe later they will resume but they think they have a better option with Hydrogen based fuel.

Thanks, I have been reading recently about this. Most manufacturers are coming out and saying EV's may not be viable. I believe the fires, and high insurance may be the problem. However, I have also been reading a lot about Hydrogen. More than one manufacturer has the technology, but I guess it is the oil companies, and governments who control what goes on the roads. I mean, if you had a car whose exhaust was water, how can you steal money under false pretenses of global warming by introducing ULEZ and other such cons.

[Freddy42OZ]

14 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

 

Yes, that's why new charging stations have been built all over the country, so people can go there for 3 hours after their work day to charge their car. 

 

*Disclaimer * 

 

 I neither own an EV nor did I think through this post. 

 

 

The condo where my GF lives has charging stations in the carpark.  I've seen quite a few condos in Bangkok that have them. 
Also I keep seeing more charging stations appearing around the city.  

I'm not sure of the long term outcome of EVs.   All I know is they have awesome torque so they are great to drive, the new models from China are getting really good, for example the new BYD Seal is a lovely looking car.


 

[Freddy42OZ]

1 hour ago, AhFarangJa said:

Thanks, I have been reading recently about this. Most manufacturers are coming out and saying EV's may not be viable. I believe the fires, and high insurance may be the problem. However, I have also been reading a lot about Hydrogen. More than one manufacturer has the technology, but I guess it is the oil companies, and governments who control what goes on the roads. I mean, if you had a car whose exhaust was water, how can you steal money under false pretenses of global warming by introducing ULEZ and other such cons.

One issue with hydrogen is that despite being the most common element in the universe, it is mostly attached to other elements.  The process of extracting it currently uses a lot of energy (using fossil fuels).

However a large potential reservoir of white hydrogen was recently found in France, and there may be a lot more in other places.

Article from the 29th Oct, 2023

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html

[Bandersnatch]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:34 PM, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Most apartments in Pattaya charge 9 THB /unit. I pay about 4000 each month, in electric bill alone, for a 40 sqm unit. That's about 450 kWh each month.

 

I pay ฿26 per month for a 450 sqm house and that includes charging an EV and electric scooter, but I do have solar.

 

 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I pay ฿26 per month for a 450 sqm house and that includes charging an EV and electric scooter, but I do have solar.

That's a great advert for going off grid......and no petrol/diesel bills too!!!

[Bandersnatch]

15 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

Nobody just magically "has" a solar installation, they pay a small fortune for it and the system rarely pays for itself. 

 

I searched "how many solar panels to power a Tesla" and came up with this: 

 

Why don't you ask people here who actually have solar and EVs then you might get some facts.

 

A 10kW PV system would be able to run a 7kW AC wall charger for at least 6 hours a day after powering the house = 42kWh @ 7.5km/kWh = 315km/day - should cover daily usage

 

My Payback:
Main Components
20,000 Watts of PV @ ฿9/W = ฿180,000
9kWh LiFePO4 Batteries ฿68,000 x 4 = ฿272,000
Inverters ฿36,000 x 3 = ฿108,000
= ฿560,000
 
Savings: 
PEA saving ฿5,000/month
Fuel saving for 2 drivers ฿5,000/month 
= ฿120,000/Year saving 
Payback = 4.6 Years - after which free electricity and driving

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Freddy42OZ said:

for example the new BYD Seal is a lovely looking car

 

I have ordered one  - top spec AWD has 0-100km in 3.8 seconds. They have bi-directional charging so you can charge them up on solar in the middle of the day and power your house at night from your car.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[KhunLA]

May exceed 4 baht ... when has it ever not exceed 4 baht, unless minimal usage.

 

Until we got solar, and used less that 150 kWh a month, it was always 4+ baht the past 15 ish yrs, and knocking on 5 baht with the higher use bills.

[KhunLA]

15 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

Nobody just magically "has" a solar installation, they pay a small fortune for it and the system rarely pays for itself. 

 

I searched "how many solar panels to power a Tesla" and came up with this: 

Thanks for the comic relief .. priceless ignorance is always good for a chuckle.

[Digitalbanana]

On 10/28/2023 at 7:30 AM, KhunLA said:

Didn't realize

I agree you didn't realize. Conflict and uncertainty always increases prices of basics world over. Supply disruptions, insurance premiums all go up whilst more money is wasted on bombs that could have been spent on something more beneficial.

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, billd766 said:

But you will be able to save the money not spent on petrol or diesel to help pay your electricity bill.

Dream on

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

 

Bit of education. Yes you can charge at home but the electricity still comes from the grid. Do you think it appears magically from somewhere else? Solar and wind do not produce sufficient electricity to fill the difference and even if they did, you have to store the electricity generated.

[Photoguy21]

7 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

Thanks, I have been reading recently about this. Most manufacturers are coming out and saying EV's may not be viable. I believe the fires, and high insurance may be the problem. However, I have also been reading a lot about Hydrogen. More than one manufacturer has the technology, but I guess it is the oil companies, and governments who control what goes on the roads. I mean, if you had a car whose exhaust was water, how can you steal money under false pretenses of global warming by introducing ULEZ and other such cons.

I totally agree with you. Toyota have stopped producing them, Honda have cut back to the point of only clearing the ones in production. BMW is looking for some other fuel. These are major players and when they pull back you have to take notice.

Even if they did turn out to be the future what about people living in apartments / condos? Where will they charge up?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:17 PM, bdenner said:

Same here in the Rice paddies. Was over 4 Baht and been over 5 Baht since Feb 2023 and 3.9 this month so what is this all about???

There was a discount of some sort applied in October and annotated on bills...well, MEA bills, anyway.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 10/27/2023 at 4:42 PM, Letseng said:

Was recently looking at renting an apartment/condo in Bkk. Very few landlords give you the actual bill.

Generally, that's the case for apartment rentals, condominium renters usually get the actual bill.

[Photoguy21]

20 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses.

 

You obviously haven’t thought through your post and obviously don’t own an EV. 

 

 

Evidently you believe the electricity comes from no where. You have Generators plus associated equipment, You need distribution network upgrading plus the storage facilities. Didnt you even consider these issues?

[Bobthegimp]

1 hour ago, Photoguy21 said:

.Didnt you even consider these issues?

No

[Bobthegimp]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Why don't you ask people here who actually have solar and EVs then you might get some facts.

 

A 10kW PV system would be able to run a 7kW AC wall charger for at least 6 hours a day after powering the house = 42kWh @ 7.5km/kWh = 315km/day - should cover daily usage

 

My Payback:
Main Components
20,000 Watts of PV @ ฿9/W = ฿180,000
9kWh LiFePO4 Batteries ฿68,000 x 4 = ฿272,000
Inverters ฿36,000 x 3 = ฿108,000
= ฿560,000
 
Savings: 
PEA saving ฿5,000/month
Fuel saving for 2 drivers ฿5,000/month 
= ฿120,000/Year saving 
Payback = 4.6 Years - after which free electricity and driving

 

 

 

Your panel and storage costs are a fraction of what we're paying in North America. Actually, all of your costs are a fraction of what we pay. The electricity costs here in Thailand are higher and the sun shines for most of the year, making the system viable. 

 

I paid:

$1/per watt (35 baht?) for my 12v panels 14,00 baht 

5760 watts @12v LiFePO4   103,000 baht

12v inverter/charger 15,500 baht

solar controller 5,500  baht. 

 

The panels should be good for four more years, the batteries might never need to be replaced, but the charge controller and inverter both had to be replaced after 5 years.  This is for an installation I did on my camper van, used in Canada, where the sun shines for 5 months if we're lucky. There are 4x 100 watts of flat mounted panels, which isn't the most effective way of gathering sunlight at that latitude.

 

I was ignorant of the cost inputs here in Thailand. Thanks for clearing it up. 

 

The EV debate has far more aspects than just how much you pay or don't pay for the electricity to power your car.  I'll leave that alone because it looks like the worm is turning on that one, and the problem of EVs is going to be self limiting. 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

3 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

evidently you believe the electricity comes from no where. You have Generators plus associated equipment, You need distribution network upgrading plus the storage facilities. Didnt you even consider these issues?

 

This was your carefully considered reply to  @Gweiloman post "Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses."

 

 

If there wasn't less demand and more supply capacity at night why would PEA & MEA offer TOU Tariffs?

 

 

 

 

[Photoguy21]

19 hours ago, Bobthegimp said:

No

Maybe you should start considering them.

[Photoguy21]

17 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

This was your carefully considered reply to  @Gweiloman post "Why would there be a need to upgrade the national infrastructure? Most EVs are charged at home at night when there is low demand for electricity from industries and businesses."

 

 

If there wasn't less demand and more supply capacity at night why would PEA & MEA offer TOU Tariffs?

 

 

 

 

Breaking news for you, the electricity has to come from somewhere. Many people cannot charge from home and even if you can where is the electricityh going to come from. Maybe sprinkle some oofle dust and it magically appears?

[Bandersnatch]

43 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Breaking news for you, the electricity has to come from somewhere. Many people cannot charge from home and even if you can where is the electricityh going to come from. Maybe sprinkle some oofle dust and it magically appears?

 

 

stay off the "oofle dust" my fiend 

[Photoguy21]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

stay off the "oofle dust" my fiend 

I think you need to and come back to reality as you have no idea about this, just wishful thinking

[Photoguy21]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

stay off the "oofle dust" my fiend 

I ban it from the house but apparently some people think the electricity comes from a place that can just increase the output by a significant amount. All electrical companies have a spin reserve but it is only a few percent and certainly not enough for everyone to charge an electric vehicle.