Gaza plunged into darkness after Israel cuts off communications, intensifying siege

[Social Media]

 

Palestinians, aid groups, journalists and civil society organisations have said they have lost touch with staff and families in Gaza, after Israel knocked out internet and communications, cutting off the territory’s residents from contact with the outside world.

NetBlocks, a watchdog organisation that monitors cybersecurity and the internet, reported a collapse in connectivity in the Gaza Strip late on Friday.

 

The Palestinian telecom provider, Paltel, said the bombardment caused “complete disruption” of internet, cellular and landline services.

Shortly after reports of lost service, exceptionally heavy bombardment was heard in the territory and the Israel Defense Forces said their air and ground forces were intensifying their attacks in Gaza.

Already in darkness after most electricity was cut off and fuel for generators ran out, Gaza’s 2.3 million people were thrown into isolation from the rest of the world.

Explosions from continuous airstrikes lit up the sky over Gaza City for hours, but the communications cutoff meant that the number of casualties from strikes and details of ground incursions could not immediately be known.

Al-Jazeera correspondent Tareq Abu Azzoum reported on the ground that Palestinians are “isolated in the territory” without “any access to the networks” at present.

Palestinians outside of Gaza have been unable to reach their relatives. The poet and author Mohammed El-Kurd, tweeted: “No one I know in Gaza is answering my texts.”

The Committee to Protect Journalists expressed alarm, saying the world “is losing a window into the reality” of the conflict. It warned that the information vacuum “can be filled with deadly propaganda, dis- and misinformation”.

The loss of communication dealt a further blow to a medical and aid system which was already on the brink of collapse under Israel’s three-week siege.

 

FULL STORY

 

[Neeranam]

44 minutes ago, Social Media said:

It warned that the information vacuum “can be filled with deadly propaganda, dis- and misinformation”.

Perhaps this is the Israeli intention.

[Nick Carter icp]

They can sit in their rooms in darkness thinking about their behaviour and whether to do it again or not.

Happened to me when I was younger  , I once stayed out  after dark and my Parents sent me to me room and switched the light off .

   I learnt not to come home after dark again 

[JCauto]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Perhaps this is the Israeli intention.

Perhaps the information being broadcast uncritically by the media included direct Hamas propaganda such as reports about thousands of dead children which have not been corroborated? Perhaps due to the uncritical acceptance of the IDF being responsible for the hospital bombing?

We can say for certain that the first casualty of war is the truth and there is practically no way to ascertain with any clarity what exactly is going on. We certainly know what kicked this off.

[animalmagic]

Gaza was plunged into darkness when Hamas took over control.  

Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative Elections in January 2006.  Israel and the Quartet—comprising the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations—demanded that the new Hamas government accept all previous agreements, recognize Israel's right to exist, and renounce violence; when Hamas refused, they cut off aid to the Palestinian Authority.

[thaipo7]

Neeranam   What do you mean by your remark?  "Perhaps this is the Israeli intention."

[John Drake]

This is pretty basic to fighting a war. You try and eliminate your enemy's ability to maneuver and organize. Hamas is a government and a military force. Israel should by all rights seek to limit its ability to communicate and coordinate its actions. This happens in every war. 

[Neeranam]

45 minutes ago, JCauto said:

We certainly know what kicked this off.

This is far from certain for many people, IMHO. A lot of people think it started on Oct 7, this year.

[Neeranam]

39 minutes ago, thaipo7 said:

Neeranam   What do you mean by your remark?  "Perhaps this is the Israeli intention."

If there is no internet in Gaza, the Israelis can try to fool the world(with propaganda and mis-information)that they are not committing war crimes, ethnic cleansing, etc.

I feel that the world has got over the shock of the Hamas attack, in where they rightly condemed Hamas, but are now condemning Israel for their actions.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

.

I feel that the world has got over the shock of the Hamas attack, in where they rightly condemed Hamas, but are now condemning Israel for their actions.

 

   No, its YOU who feels that way  , YOU have got over the shock of the terror attack and YOU condemn Israel's response . 

   You are not the Worlds spokesman 

[SirHonkersTheFirst]

29 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No, its YOU who feels that way  , YOU have got over the shock of the terror attack and YOU condemn Israel's response . 

   You are not the Worlds spokesman 

As we say in my country - what a BOX you are. Or if you follow rugby, a complete and utter SIDE.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

33 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If there is no internet in Gaza, the Israelis can try to fool the world(with propaganda and mis-information)that they are not committing war crimes, ethnic cleansing, etc.

I feel that the world has got over the shock of the Hamas attack, in where they rightly condemed Hamas, but are now condemning Israel for their actions.

You sick puppy

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, SirHonkersTheFirst said:

As we say in my country - what a BOX you are. Or if you follow rugby, a complete and utter SIDE.

 

 

 

   I really have no idea whether you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me , as I am not familiar with either of those slang words 

[ThaiFelix]

Yeah I can see the news now with Israel the reporting of more dead babies, raped and mutilated women but refuse to hand over evidence for fear of upsetting somebody lol!

 

Israel go steal land elsewhere!!

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ThaiFelix said:

Yeah I can see the news now with Israel the reporting of more dead babies, raped and mutilated women but refuse to hand over evidence for fear of upsetting somebody lol!

 

Israel go steal land elsewhere!!

Internets back on, what are you talking about.

[Wobblybob]

Typical, there wasn't a outcry from Al Jazeera when Palestinian Terrorists were cutting the heads of innocent civilians in Israel but cut the internet off in Gaza and Al Jazeera goes into meltdown. 🥴

[Morch]

Cellular, internet service gradually returning to Gaza — report

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/cellular-internet-service-gradually-returning-to-gaza-report/

 

[LukKrueng]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:02 PM, Neeranam said:

This is far from certain for many people, IMHO. A lot of people think it started on Oct 7, this year.

Gaza has been free of Israeli occupation since 2005. That is a fact. What happens now started on October 7th with horrible crimes against humanity. Killing civilians, beheading babies, cutting pregnant women's belly while still alive, killing the unborn baby and then killing the mother. Don't trust me on this. Check what the hamas-Isis happily broadcasted to the world to see.

And if you think they'll stop if ever they can eliminate the state of Israel - think again. Read their charter. After Israel they will go for the rest of the world. And even if you are a Muslim, you won't be safe. They killed their own people as well.

[billd766]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:15 PM, JCauto said:

Perhaps the information being broadcast uncritically by the media included direct Hamas propaganda such as reports about thousands of dead children which have not been corroborated? Perhaps due to the uncritical acceptance of the IDF being responsible for the hospital bombing?

We can say for certain that the first casualty of war is the truth and there is practically no way to ascertain with any clarity what exactly is going on. We certainly know what kicked this off.

Yet another poster who believes that the speaks for everyone.

 

"WE" is not you speaking for me because you certainly don't.

 

So Hamas sends out propaganda and the IDF doesn't?

 

The IDF doesn't kill indiscriminately using tanks, armoured bulldozers, ground attack aircraft and helicopter gunships?

 

The Israeli government doesn't cut off water, power, medical supplies, blockade Gaza by land sea and air ?

 

The Israeli government doesn't commit crimes against humanity and are condemned by many countries worldwide, saved by the veto of the USA. A shameful act if ever I saw one.

 

The Israeli government doesn't evict Palestinian people from their homes and steals their land to give to Israeli settlers?

 

What do you expect the Palestinians to do. Give up and go quietly and go to a refugee camp where the IDF can slaughter them more easily? Or fight back with anything they have? Many have died doing that and many more will die now as the Israeli government has cut off ALL the basic essentials of life to Gaza.

 

I posted my thoughts on a different thread, and the moderators quite correctly deleted my post.

 

My words have changed but my thoughts have not.

 

When I was in my 20s I had great sympathy for the Israelis for their suffering before, during and after WW2, but their leaders since the 1960s have wiped all that away.

[LukKrueng]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yet another poster who believes that the speaks for everyone.

 

"WE" is not you speaking for me because you certainly don't.

 

So Hamas sends out propaganda and the IDF doesn't?

 

The IDF doesn't kill indiscriminately using tanks, armoured bulldozers, ground attack aircraft and helicopter gunships?

 

The Israeli government doesn't cut off water, power, medical supplies, blockade Gaza by land sea and air ?

 

The Israeli government doesn't commit crimes against humanity and are condemned by many countries worldwide, saved by the veto of the USA. A shameful act if ever I saw one.

 

The Israeli government doesn't evict Palestinian people from their homes and steals their land to give to Israeli settlers?

 

What do you expect the Palestinians to do. Give up and go quietly and go to a refugee camp where the IDF can slaughter them more easily? Or fight back with anything they have? Many have died doing that and many more will die now as the Israeli government has cut off ALL the basic essentials of life to Gaza.

 

I posted my thoughts on a different thread, and the moderators quite correctly deleted my post.

 

My words have changed but my thoughts have not.

 

When I was in my 20s I had great sympathy for the Israelis for their suffering before, during and after WW2, but their leaders since the 1960s have wiped all that away.

So easy to ignore the facts...

1. The IDF has never targeted civilians.

2. Before bombarding any hamas-Isis location the IDF notify civilians telling them to evacuate their location. Since day 1 of the current war the IDF has been telling civilians to go south, to safe grounds, yet hamas-Isis block civilians way and forbid them from leaving as they need then add human shields.

3. The IDF has never kidnapped civilians, never raped young girls and women. Never cut babies it of pregnant women's bellies.

 

All the above was done and documented by the hamas-issue terrorists and broadcasted live on the internet, so it's not propaganda, it's facts.

 

4. Since 2005, when the last soldier left the Gaza stript grounds, Israel has supplied to Gaza electricity and water as well as allowed transport of all other goods to Gaza. Gaza's other neighbor, Egypt, had blocked their side of the border.

5. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians workers from Gaza to enter Israel for work so they can earn money.

6. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for medical treatments in Israeli hospitals.

7. Hamas-Isis had used money sent to Gaza for humanitarian proposed for building missiles and rockets, to fortify Gaza's underground metro.

8. Hamash-Isis still hold more than 500,000 liter of fuel right now, but they won't give any of it to the civilian population.

But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

So easy to ignore the facts...

1. The IDF has never targeted civilians.

2. Before bombarding any hamas-Isis location the IDF notify civilians telling them to evacuate their location. Since day 1 of the current war the IDF has been telling civilians to go south, to safe grounds, yet hamas-Isis block civilians way and forbid them from leaving as they need then add human shields.

3. The IDF has never kidnapped civilians, never raped young girls and women. Never cut babies it of pregnant women's bellies.

 

All the above was done and documented by the hamas-issue terrorists and broadcasted live on the internet, so it's not propaganda, it's facts.

 

4. Since 2005, when the last soldier left the Gaza stript grounds, Israel has supplied to Gaza electricity and water as well as allowed transport of all other goods to Gaza. Gaza's other neighbor, Egypt, had blocked their side of the border.

5. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians workers from Gaza to enter Israel for work so they can earn money.

6. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for medical treatments in Israeli hospitals.

7. Hamas-Isis had used money sent to Gaza for humanitarian proposed for building missiles and rockets, to fortify Gaza's underground metro.

8. Hamash-Isis still hold more than 500,000 liter of fuel right now, but they won't give any of it to the civilian population.

But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too

Do you have anything that backs up what you say.

 

You could always ask for independent verification but that would involve independent observers being allowed to enter Gaza without being surrounded by the IDF.

 

quote from your post  "But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too".

 

I am not a supporter of Hamas, but a supporter of the Palestinian people. I hate ALL despotic governments that trample over the human rights of any people.

 

I suppose that you believe that this is fake news too.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67248397

 

and this 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67252107

 

How about this one? Do you think that they are all Hamas supporters too?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67246847

 

You may even believe that this is true. After all it comes from the same news source.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67250802

 

Or do you believe that everything that the Israeli government and the IDF is 100% of the truth, and that they would never tell a lie?

 

That shouldn't be a problem except that the IDF pretty much controls who enters Gaza or not and since the massacre, no independent observers are allowed into Gaza, let alone be  unescorted.

 

The reasoning is that it has been declared a war zone.

 

Who by. you might enquire? By the Israeli government and the IDF who control everything and everyone that goes (or wants to go) into Gaza legally.

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Do you have anything that backs up what you say.

 

You could always ask for independent verification but that would involve independent observers being allowed to enter Gaza without being surrounded by the IDF.

 

quote from your post  "But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too".

 

I am not a supporter of Hamas, but a supporter of the Palestinian people. I hate ALL despotic governments that trample over the human rights of any people.

 

I suppose that you believe that this is fake news too.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67248397

 

and this 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67252107

 

How about this one? Do you think that they are all Hamas supporters too?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67246847

 

You may even believe that this is true. After all it comes from the same news source.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67250802

 

Or do you believe that everything that the Israeli government and the IDF is 100% of the truth, and that they would never tell a lie?

 

That shouldn't be a problem except that the IDF pretty much controls who enters Gaza or not and since the massacre, no independent observers are allowed into Gaza, let alone be  unescorted.

 

The reasoning is that it has been declared a war zone.

 

Who by. you might enquire? By the Israeli government and the IDF who control everything and everyone that goes (or wants to go) into Gaza legally.

Sure, keep following the BBC, who took the side of hamas-Isis and refuse to call them a terrorist organisation. They, like al jasira play the role of a mouthpiece to the hamas-Isis. 

The IDF never stopped anyone from visiting Gaza before October 7th. Right now the border crossing from Israel is closed and will stay close for a long time. But there is another border, and another crossing which is not controlled by Israel. Whoever wants to go in and observe can go through there.

Israel has been requesting the red cross to go check on the hostages so they are not the ones not allowing it, it's hamas-Isis that refuse to let them in.

No one is making up any of the horror stories the hamas-Isis did. No need to look for evidence any further then their own footage of the events. They showed the world the elderly, the kids, the babies that they have kidnapped. They paraded an Israeli young woman that they have kidnapped after raping  her, while she's still bleeding. Nothing off that has anything to do with any action taken by the Israeli government and the IDF in the last 18 years since they have left Gaza.

While the IDF is targeting terrorist and try their best to avoid civilian collateral damage, hamas-Isis is targeting civilians.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Sure, keep following the BBC, who took the side of hamas-Isis and refuse to call them a terrorist organisation. They, like al jasira play the role of a mouthpiece to the hamas-Isis. 

The IDF never stopped anyone from visiting Gaza before October 7th. Right now the border crossing from Israel is closed and will stay close for a long time. But there is another border, and another crossing which is not controlled by Israel. Whoever wants to go in and observe can go through there.

Israel has been requesting the red cross to go check on the hostages so they are not the ones not allowing it, it's hamas-Isis that refuse to let them in.

No one is making up any of the horror stories the hamas-Isis did. No need to look for evidence any further then their own footage of the events. They showed the world the elderly, the kids, the babies that they have kidnapped. They paraded an Israeli young woman that they have kidnapped after raping  her, while she's still bleeding. Nothing off that has anything to do with any action taken by the Israeli government and the IDF in the last 18 years since they have left Gaza.

While the IDF is targeting terrorist and try their best to avoid civilian collateral damage, hamas-Isis is targeting civilians.

 

There is no such thing as Hamas-Isis. It's a recent Israeli propaganda meme. When IS tried to set up shop in the Gaza Strip, Hamas dismantled it pretty quickly. Granted, it was more to do with fearing the competition. The atrocities committed were similar, but such were seen in other places too (say, Rwanda).

 

It is not true that 'the IDF never stopped anyone from visiting Gaza before October 7/10'. There was no such free access, and entering the Gaza Strip from the Israeli border posts always required permits. As far as I recall, there were several incidents over the years where Israel prevented visiting foreign politicians from visiting the Gaza Strip this way.

 

I agree with most of your other comments above.

 

 

[Morch]

 

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

So easy to ignore the facts...

1. The IDF has never targeted civilians.

2. Before bombarding any hamas-Isis location the IDF notify civilians telling them to evacuate their location. Since day 1 of the current war the IDF has been telling civilians to go south, to safe grounds, yet hamas-Isis block civilians way and forbid them from leaving as they need then add human shields.

3. The IDF has never kidnapped civilians, never raped young girls and women. Never cut babies it of pregnant women's bellies.

 

All the above was done and documented by the hamas-issue terrorists and broadcasted live on the internet, so it's not propaganda, it's facts.

 

4. Since 2005, when the last soldier left the Gaza stript grounds, Israel has supplied to Gaza electricity and water as well as allowed transport of all other goods to Gaza. Gaza's other neighbor, Egypt, had blocked their side of the border.

5. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians workers from Gaza to enter Israel for work so they can earn money.

6. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for medical treatments in Israeli hospitals.

7. Hamas-Isis had used money sent to Gaza for humanitarian proposed for building missiles and rockets, to fortify Gaza's underground metro.

8. Hamash-Isis still hold more than 500,000 liter of fuel right now, but they won't give any of it to the civilian population.

But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too

 

Never is a big word. Most of the 'nevers' above actually happened, at one point or another over the years. Such is the way of armies and wars. If your comment was limited to the scope of the current war, or even previous iterations of it vs. Hamas, then it is much more accurate.

 

The Israeli blockade on the Gaza Strip, in place for very good reasons, does not allow the transport of all goods to the Gaza Strip. This is false. There's an extensive list of forbidden items, controlled and restricted items. Again, maybe good reasons for it, but no wholesale free passage as stated above. Electricity and water are supplied, but not on a level addressing the Gaza Strip's needs - this is a complicated issue though - has to do with a whole lot of intra-Palestinian politics, legal responsibility issues and so on.

 

As said in a previous post, no such thing as Hamas-Isis.

 

Other than that, again, mostly agree with your post.

 

@billd766 can be labeled many things, but terrorist fanboy is not one of them. Give it a rest. Also, he's the master of 'the beast'....

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

What do you expect the Palestinians to do. Give up and go quietly and go to a refugee camp where the IDF can slaughter them more easily? Or fight back with anything they have? Many have died doing that and many more will die now as the Israeli government has cut off ALL the basic essentials of life to Gaza.

 

When I was in my 20s I had great sympathy for the Israelis for their suffering before, during and after WW2, but their leaders since the 1960s have wiped all that away.

Yeah, stupid foolish Jews, defending their country from repeated invasions. Why didn't they just let themselves be slaughtered like the Koran says? 

 

I think the Palestinians/Hamas would have a greater case to be made for "fighting back" if they actually fought back against the IDF. Instead, they very carefully avoid the Israeli military and instead deliberately slaughter the innocent.  OTOH, IF the IDF wanted to slaughter Palestinians, they would have done so by now. The fact that casualties are so light is a testament to their professionalism and humanity. 

 

In one sense you are right though- the Palestinians ARE trapped. None of their fellow 22 Arabic countries want even a single Palestinian as a refugee, to welcome them as brothers, give them a chance at a better life.  Arab countries make up 98% of the land area of the Middle East, yet cannot spare even an acre for the Palestinians.  They (the Palestinians) are far more useful as they are.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Sure, keep following the BBC, who took the side of hamas-Isis and refuse to call them a terrorist organisation. They, like al jasira play the role of a mouthpiece to the hamas-Isis. 

The IDF never stopped anyone from visiting Gaza before October 7th. Right now the border crossing from Israel is closed and will stay close for a long time. But there is another border, and another crossing which is not controlled by Israel. Whoever wants to go in and observe can go through there.

Israel has been requesting the red cross to go check on the hostages so they are not the ones not allowing it, it's hamas-Isis that refuse to let them in.

No one is making up any of the horror stories the hamas-Isis did. No need to look for evidence any further then their own footage of the events. They showed the world the elderly, the kids, the babies that they have kidnapped. They paraded an Israeli young woman that they have kidnapped after raping  her, while she's still bleeding. Nothing off that has anything to do with any action taken by the Israeli government and the IDF in the last 18 years since they have left Gaza.

While the IDF is targeting terrorist and try their best to avoid civilian collateral damage, hamas-Isis is targeting civilians.

You are claiming all sorts of things without anything to back your words up.

 

At least I gave you some links which you obviously didn't like.

 

Is this the best response that you have?

 

Do you truly believe that every body who has a different point of view to you is wrong and only the people that agree with you are right?

[JCauto]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

Yet another poster who believes that the speaks for everyone.

 

"WE" is not you speaking for me because you certainly don't.

 

So Hamas sends out propaganda and the IDF doesn't?

 

The IDF doesn't kill indiscriminately using tanks, armoured bulldozers, ground attack aircraft and helicopter gunships?

 

The Israeli government doesn't cut off water, power, medical supplies, blockade Gaza by land sea and air ?

 

The Israeli government doesn't commit crimes against humanity and are condemned by many countries worldwide, saved by the veto of the USA. A shameful act if ever I saw one.

 

The Israeli government doesn't evict Palestinian people from their homes and steals their land to give to Israeli settlers?

 

What do you expect the Palestinians to do. Give up and go quietly and go to a refugee camp where the IDF can slaughter them more easily? Or fight back with anything they have? Many have died doing that and many more will die now as the Israeli government has cut off ALL the basic essentials of life to Gaza.

 

I posted my thoughts on a different thread, and the moderators quite correctly deleted my post.

 

My words have changed but my thoughts have not.

 

When I was in my 20s I had great sympathy for the Israelis for their suffering before, during and after WW2, but their leaders since the 1960s have wiped all that away.

 

Splendid rant, I do hope you take such good care of pronouns in your personal life. You must be a lot of fun.

 

If you observe the last sentence, you will note that it says that "the first casualty of war is the truth and there is practically no way to ascertain with any clarity what exactly is going on". This is what we call the main point of my post. Oh there I go again, using the "we". Am I speaking for all posters there or is this a normal rhetorical device?

While my point referred to Hamas propaganda, of course there is IDF propaganda as well. That was, you know, the point.

If you don't think the terrorist atrocities specifically directed at civilians by Hamas were the event that kicked this latest round off, then I don't know what to tell you. If you can't tell the difference between Hamas and the Israeli Government and how they treat their civilians and manage their territory, then I also don't know what to tell you.

 

If you believe this is a one-way conflict with no fault on one side then I don't believe you fully understand the situation. Neither for that matter do I, but I'm not willing to dive in and absolve one side of blame while entirely focusing on the other. Oh, and of course ignoring all the other ills in the world which blithely pass me by except for this one which for some reason is so much more important than all the others.

 

Netanyahu and his awful government deserve much of the blame for this mess and will likely suffer the consequences at the ballot box, and hopefully individually suffer some international sanctions. I have zero sympathy for Settlers and their deliberate provoking of the Palestinian residents and abrogation of treaties and agreements - but those were not the people who were attacked in the neighbouring Kibbutzes. Hamas and their awful government will not allow elections and will continue to use their population as human shields, prevent them from fleeing areas of conflict, persecute any moderates, LGBTQ+ and other non-radicals and to keep them mired in misery so as to prolong their rule (from luxury residences in Qatar) and continue the conflict. Their end goal remains un-renounced; the death of all Israeli Jews (and Christians and other infidels by the way) and rule of the area from the river to the sea. There's not a lot to like on either side of this politically, however it has to be remembered that there is a significant part of both populations who only want peace and who have been trying to help move towards that despite the difficulties from their own sides in doing so. This includes some of the Israeli governments since the 60's who were actively trying to come to a peace agreement with the Palestinian people.

There is no easy solution in this mess, especially because it is fueled by religious fantasy and fanaticism on both sides and is part of a major geo-political conflict that involves numerous outside powers and interests. The people who suffer the most from this are the innocent non-combatants on both sides. I would urge you and everyone to take any news from this horrible situation with several grains of salt and not engage in the knee-jerk anger and lashing out that benefits those who wish the conflict to continue unabated.

[SirHonkersTheFirst]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:42 PM, LukKrueng said:

So easy to ignore the facts...

1. The IDF has never targeted civilians.

2. Before bombarding any hamas-Isis location the IDF notify civilians telling them to evacuate their location. Since day 1 of the current war the IDF has been telling civilians to go south, to safe grounds, yet hamas-Isis block civilians way and forbid them from leaving as they need then add human shields.

3. The IDF has never kidnapped civilians, never raped young girls and women. Never cut babies it of pregnant women's bellies.

 

All the above was done and documented by the hamas-issue terrorists and broadcasted live on the internet, so it's not propaganda, it's facts.

 

4. Since 2005, when the last soldier left the Gaza stript grounds, Israel has supplied to Gaza electricity and water as well as allowed transport of all other goods to Gaza. Gaza's other neighbor, Egypt, had blocked their side of the border.

5. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians workers from Gaza to enter Israel for work so they can earn money.

6. Israel has allowed thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to enter Israel for medical treatments in Israeli hospitals.

7. Hamas-Isis had used money sent to Gaza for humanitarian proposed for building missiles and rockets, to fortify Gaza's underground metro.

8. Hamash-Isis still hold more than 500,000 liter of fuel right now, but they won't give any of it to the civilian population.

But sure, go ahead and be hamas-Isis supporter, and one day they will get you too

What a shill you are.