Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[novacova]

Just now, novacova said:

“US SAYS IT WILL BACK ISRAEL MILITARILY WHEN FIGHTING RESUMES

Blinken said to warn war cabinet Israel may not have months to topple Hamas

US diplomat says Israel must change way it is fighting, set up safe zones, avoid hospitals, UN facilities: ‘Massive loss of civilian life’ in north Gaza must not be repeated in south.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken warned Israel’s war cabinet on Thursday that it likely doesn’t have months to wage war against Hamas in Gaza, as domestic and international pressure mounts on US President Joe Biden’s administration to draw an end to the fighting, an Israeli official said.“

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/blinken-said-to-warn-war-cabinet-it-may-not-have-months-to-topple-hamas/

It appears the US is laying a path for possibly backing off support for Israel if they don’t bend to the will of the US.

[Danderman123]

41 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Hamas terrorist attack was a direct result of the continual oppression of Palestinians in Israel, including Apartheid.

I agree with eliminate Hamas, but not by killing all 100 children a day over more than a month!!

 

If I were the head of Israel, I'd stop Apartheid and promote equality and peace. 

 

So, if you were in charge in Israel, you would accept a 2 state solution, but leave Hamas to attack endlessly?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

If you knew of a way to eliminate Hamas without so much collateral damage, IDF would be all ears.

Have they found that Hamas "command center" under the hospital yet, 55555555.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are wasting your time. Many times I've asked for such but never receive a reply.

 

@thaibeachlovers @Neeranam

 

You probably have, but that 'ignore' thing......

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, if you were in charge in Israel, you would accept a 2 state solution, but leave Hamas to attack endlessly?

If they had accepted a two state solution back in 1948, Hamas likely would never have happened.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, novacova said:

It appears the US is laying a path for possibly backing off support for Israel if they don’t bend to the will of the US.

 The US have made a worldwide fool of themselves too much recently in the ME. We haven't forgottten the deaths of 100,000 innocents in Iraq after Bush lied about the reason for starting that war. It's all about the oil for the US and how much cash they can personally gain in war, totally corrupt.

[Jeff the Chef]

‘There are 2 million Nazis’ in West Bank, says far-right Finance Minister Smotrich
Remark made in reference to polls showing most West Bank Palestinians back Hamas’s Oct. 7 onslaught; Netanyahu said lobbying Likud MKs, saying only he can foil Palestinian state

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/there-are-2-million-nazis-in-west-bank-says-far-right-finance-minister-smotrich/

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, novacova said:

It appears the US is laying a path for possibly backing off support for Israel if they don’t bend to the will of the US.

 

I think it's more about USA broadcasting to Israel the limits of USA support. That is as it should be.

[Danderman123]

32 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Another nonsense post.

Why do you think Hamas was founded?

This is ALL about unfair treatment of Palestinians.

Hamas was founded to remove Israelis from the Levant.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, if you were in charge in Israel, you would accept a 2 state solution, but leave Hamas to attack endlessly?

No, I told you, I'd stop Apartheid and give Palestinians equality.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Have they found that Hamas "command center" under the hospital yet, 55555555.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

They found enough, and there are supporting evidence from foreign doctors/staff who worked there to confirm things. Considering Israel announced intentions to take the hospital beforehand, not sure why you'd expect Hamas to stick around or leave plenty of evidence behind. Then again, I'm not the one glued to AJ.....

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

You claimed there was an Israeli long term plan afoot. You have not provided any coherent support for this. Facts run counter to your claims.

 

There was an attack plan and Israel knew it at least 1 year in advance. Again, you refute the official narrative if it's against Israeli interests. Nothing new over here...

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/israel-knew-hamas-attack-plan-more-than-year-ago-nyt/

 

Quote from link : 

 

"Israeli officials learned of Hamas' plan for the Oct. 7 terror attack more than a year before it happened, according to a New York Times report Thursday. Bilal Saab, senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, joins CBS News to discuss what the revelation could mean for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government."

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

You claimed there was an Israeli long term plan afoot. You have not provided any coherent support for this. Facts run counter to your claims.

 

There was an attack plan and Israel knew it at least 1 year in advance. Again, you refute the official narrative if it's against Israeli interests. Nothing new over here...

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/israel-knew-hamas-attack-plan-more-than-year-ago-nyt/

 

Quote from link : 

 

"Israeli officials learned of Hamas' plan for the Oct. 7 terror attack more than a year before it happened, according to a New York Times report Thursday. Bilal Saab, senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, joins CBS News to discuss what the revelation could mean for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government."

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If they had accepted a two state solution back in 1948, Hamas likely would never have happened.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Bizarre.

Israel accepted the 1947 Partition Plan. The Palestinians (and their Arab sponsors) did not.

Was there some other version shown on AJ?

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

‘There are 2 million Nazis’ in West Bank, says far-right Finance Minister Smotrich
Remark made in reference to polls showing most West Bank Palestinians back Hamas’s Oct. 7 onslaught; Netanyahu said lobbying Likud MKs, saying only he can foil Palestinian state

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/there-are-2-million-nazis-in-west-bank-says-far-right-finance-minister-smotrich/

 

And...?

[Neeranam]

 

Doesn't surprise me.

 

Israel knew Hamas' attack plan more than a year ago, New York Times reports

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/israel-knew-hamas-attack-plan-more-than-year-ago-nyt/

[Neeranam]

Leaked: Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

 

The document, issued on 13 October, identifies a plan to transfer all residents of the Gaza Strip to North Sinai as the preferred option among three alternatives regarding the future of the Palestinians in Gaza at the end of the current war between Israel and the Hamas-led Palestinian resistance.

 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/11290

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, I told you, I'd stop Apartheid and give Palestinians equality.

 

@Neeranam

 

Hamas is after more than that.

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, I told you, I'd stop Apartheid and give Palestinians equality.

In that scenario, Hamas would still maintain its founding objective of ejecting Israelis from the Levant.

 

You seem to have difficulty understanding this point. Since this is the key to understanding the current conflict, I will ask you directly:

 

Do you understand that Hamas' goal is extinction of the state of Israel, in any form?

 

Please answer directly, without weaseling.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

There was an attack plan and Israel knew it at least 1 year in advance. Again, you refute the official narrative if it's against Israeli interests. Nothing new over here...

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/israel-knew-hamas-attack-plan-more-than-year-ago-nyt/

 

Quote from link : 

 

"Israeli officials learned of Hamas' plan for the Oct. 7 terror attack more than a year before it happened, according to a New York Times report Thursday. Bilal Saab, senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, joins CBS News to discuss what the revelation could mean for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government."

 

Poster claimed Israel had a 75 years long plan regarding the Palestinians. This is neither true, not much to do with what you currently claimed/linked.

 

As for what you posted - there are plenty of reports that there were indications for the upcoming attack, and that they were discounted, ignored or wrongly assessed. A whole lot of that on Israeli media.

 

That you hint at some conspiracy involved does not make it so, nor do you supply any actual support for it.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

Hamas is after more than that.

Apparently, some people cannot internalize this concept. They seem to believe that improving the status of West Bank Palestinians would somehow stop attacks by Hamas.

[Jeff the Chef]

18 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

‘There are 2 million Nazis’ in West Bank, says far-right Finance Minister Smotrich
Remark made in reference to polls showing most West Bank Palestinians back Hamas’s Oct. 7 onslaught; Netanyahu said lobbying Likud MKs, saying only he can foil Palestinian state

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/there-are-2-million-nazis-in-west-bank-says-far-right-finance-minister-smotrich/

 

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And...?

Interesting that the people of Israel use the holocaust to create one of their own.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Leaked: Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

 

The document, issued on 13 October, identifies a plan to transfer all residents of the Gaza Strip to North Sinai as the preferred option among three alternatives regarding the future of the Palestinians in Gaza at the end of the current war between Israel and the Hamas-led Palestinian resistance.

 

https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/11290

 

@Neeranam

 

That bit of nonsense was already discussed on the previous main topic. This is not a government policy plan - but a paper presented to the Ministry of Intelligence, which despite its name is a minor portfolio lacking any authority. That you should rehash this again after it was already addressed is not surprising.

[Thorgal]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Chants by soldiers are not the same as national policy. Israel is not going to annex Gaza.

 

Apparently not the same for "The River to the Sea" songs during protests worldwide...

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Interesting that the people of Israel use the holocaust to create one of their own.

 

Interesting, if expected,  that you claim something that is not true.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

Apparently not the same for "The River to the Sea" songs during protests worldwide...

 

The 'river to the sea' ideology is reflected in the Hamas Charter.

[Thorgal]

Just now, Morch said:

 

The 'river to the sea' ideology is reflected in the Hamas Charter.

 

The old charter, yes. The updated one from 2017, not.

This was discussed, but again refuted by you because it's against the Israeli narrative...

[metisdead]

Some more posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.  

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

The old charter, yes. The updated one from 2017, not.

This was discussed, but again refuted by you because it's against the Israeli narrative...

 

Is it your claim that the Hamas Charter acknowledges Israel's right to exist? That it relinquishes claims to the area where Israel is nowadays?

Do you understand that the previous Hamas Charter was not dismissed? (that was explained on past discussions as well).

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

The old charter, yes. The updated one from 2017, not.

This was discussed, but again refuted by you because it's against the Israeli narrative...

Stop lying, we've been through this already and you know it:

 

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

Much like the original, the new document asserts Hamas’s long-standing goal of establishing a sovereign, Islamist Palestinian state that extends, according to Article 2, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and from the Lebanese border to the Israeli city of Eilat—in other words, through the entirety of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. And it is similarly unequivocal about “the right of return” of all Palestinian refugees displaced as a result of the 1948 and 1967 wars (Article 12)

https://archive.ph/QGQvP

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/