CRS requierements, when/if new tax situation chamges

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, jojothai said:

You are correct.

The USA is not on the list of participating countries.

However, as you point out they have other ways of getting information.

 

Some DTAs probably have a clause about data sharing, but perhaps not as automatic as the CRS.

[flexomike]

On 11/28/2023 at 6:33 PM, ukrules said:

What do you think CRS is?

Can't remember sh it

[worrab]

On 11/29/2023 at 3:28 PM, jojothai said:

However, for the UK expats getting paid their pension here into a Thai bank and declaring it for visa, then you need to start considering the tax situation because there is no double tax treaty unless you are on civil service pension.

I was under the impression that if you pay taxes in UK then there is a DTT so, on the self assessment form done here, any taxes paid in UK are then credited against any tax owing in Thailand. Surely if there is a DTT agreement then it covers all taxes and not just some.

So can you show where it states DTT does not cover pensions?  

[worrab]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:06 PM, jojothai said:

However exchange of data is no use until Thai banks start to get the TINs from people.

From discussions I have had with my financial advisor, TINs are only required if you are remitting finances to UK. In my situation because I will be receiving funds next year from an inheritance, tax free in Thailand, this will be sent to my Thai Bank. This is more than enough for myself, wife and son to live on. So my pensions which I used to transfer here will now remain in my UK bank so I have funds for when I visit. Therefore there is no need for me to register for a TIN.

  

[The Cyclist]

17 minutes ago, worrab said:

I was under the impression that if you pay taxes in UK then there is a DTT so, on the self assessment form done here, any taxes paid in UK are then credited against any tax owing in Thailand. Surely if there is a DTT agreement then it covers all taxes and not just some.

So can you show where it states DTT does not cover pensions?  

 

The UK - Thai DTA states quite clearly that only Government Pensions are specifically covered, ie, only taxable in the UK.

 

Other UK pensions that are taxed in the UK will be covered by some form of credit system. What that will be remains to be seen.

 

I am still of the opinion that any income taxed in the UK will not be subject to Thai tax when it is remitted to Thailand. Possibly nothing more than a paper exercise, show the income, show the tax paid, job jobbed.

 

After all, that is the reason for a Double Tax Agreement, so that you do not get taxed twice.

 

Which probably  means getting a TIN and filing a tax return, listing the income on the new part of  the tax return, which is currently being updated*

 

* Would be pretty strange updating a document to include a section for income covered by a DTA, to then not use it.

 

The main issue for some will be proving that the income has actually been taxed, which most likely, will be an issue that will not be specific to the UK.

 

 

[worrab]

51 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I am still of the opinion that any income taxed in the UK will not be subject to Thai tax when it is remitted to Thailand. Possibly nothing more than a paper exercise, show the income, show the tax paid, job jobbed.

This is what I have been led to believe. Any income tax paid to HMRC will not be taxed when remitted here. It will be credited against any taxes owing here. Another case of a forest worth of paperwork which we know the Thais love!! 

And for UK expats, a P60 will be the evidence required if needed by RD. 

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, worrab said:

And for UK expats, a P60 will be the evidence required if needed by RD. 

 

Yes, I would think for UK expats a P60 would be all that was required.

 

It shows the income and the tax paid in the previous year. It should not matter that the UK's tax year is different to the Thai tax year.

 

In the case of UK pensions, mine also send with my P60's a Statement of future Payments which shows monthly amount and monthly tax paid and very easy to tie together with a Thai bank statement.

[jojothai]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:10 AM, worrab said:

I was under the impression that if you pay taxes in UK then there is a DTT so, on the self assessment form done here, any taxes paid in UK are then credited against any tax owing in Thailand. Surely if there is a DTT agreement then it covers all taxes and not just some.

So can you show where it states DTT does not cover pensions?  

The subject has been discussed at least a few times in the forum and it has been noted that its only civil servant pensions.

Best you get the DTT and check it.

[jojothai]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:20 AM, worrab said:

From discussions I have had with my financial advisor, TINs are only required if you are remitting finances to UK. In my situation because I will be receiving funds next year from an inheritance, tax free in Thailand, this will be sent to my Thai Bank. This is more than enough for myself, wife and son to live on. So my pensions which I used to transfer here will now remain in my UK bank so I have funds for when I visit. Therefore there is no need for me to register for a TIN.

  

FYI,

The CRS requirements are very clear and requires that the bank gets a TIN from you. 

Thats what my uk and other banks and financial institutions all required.

I have had problems with them wanting much more personal information on their forms and refused to provide other info that was not required.

In order to do so i read the CRS and the TIN is a requirement.

When the banks here start to Implement the CRS, they should be requesting the TIN.

However i have not had any such request.

 

[worrab]

17 hours ago, jojothai said:

The subject has been discussed at least a few times in the forum and it has been noted that its only civil servant pensions.

Best you get the DTT and check it.

So, you are saying that, for instance, my combined pensions including state pension on which I pay UK taxes would then be liable to be taxed again in Thailand when remitted here?? Not the impression I had from my financial advisor who stated the UK tax paid would be credited against any Thai tax owed.  Not that this will affect me as I am keeping the pensions in UK 

[jojothai]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:39 AM, worrab said:

So, you are saying that, for instance, my combined pensions including state pension on which I pay UK taxes would then be liable to be taxed again in Thailand when remitted here?? Not the impression I had from my financial advisor who stated the UK tax paid would be credited against any Thai tax owed.  Not that this will affect me as I am keeping the pensions in UK 

I am not saying whether you will be taxed here or not. I do not know.
Your financial advisor should give advice. And should know what is in the DTT and whether it is only government pensions (civil servant).

However, if the advisor thinks that you will not need a TIN for the bank, then ask them to check what the CRS states.

Implementation of the CRS is supposed to have started here in Thailand, but there do not appear to be any requests yet from the banks or other financial institutions for the information they are supposed to get. TIT.

I get my pension paid in the UK, or offshore, not remitted here to avoid any possible tax.
Previously it was clear that i can bring into Thailand in the next tax year and not be liable for tax.
However, we do not yet know for sure how things will be in 2024.

[jojothai]

2 minutes ago, jojothai said:

I am not saying whether you will be taxed here or not. I do not know.
Your financial advisor should give advice. And should know what is in the DTT and whether it is only government pensions (civil servant).

However, if the advisor thinks that you will not need a TIN for the bank, then ask them to check what the CRS states.

Implementation of the CRS is supposed to have started here in Thailand, but there do not appear to be any requests yet from the banks or other financial institutions for the information they are supposed to get. TIT.

I get my pension paid in the UK, or offshore, not remitted here to avoid any possible tax.
Previously it was clear that i can bring into Thailand in the next tax year and not be liable for tax.
However, we do not yet know for sure how things will be in 2024.

The other thing that I did not say before is that the CRS declaration requires that you state your country of residence and the TIN.
So i could not give my UK TIN to get around the problem, because I am resident here now or in other countries i was working before.
I do not want to be considered resident in the UK.
In the UK it is necessary to declare the state pension that is paid there, but it is within the yearly personal allowance.