UK State pension frozen when residing in Thailand

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, 5davidhen1 said:

Just a small (perhaps insignificant, perhaps not) addition to this thread:

I know from personal experience that HMRC talks to DWP. So, if there's anything you don't want DWP to know about, make sure not to inform HMRC.

I agree. People who claim to be UK resident in order to obtain increases to the State Pension every year, had better be filing tax returns as UK residents.

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

I agree. People who claim to be UK resident in order to obtain increases to the State Pension every year, had better be filing tax returns as UK residents.

 

 

No choice, all my income is taxed at source by the UK government. Tax returns are not required as I only have pensions.

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No choice, all my income is taxed at source by the UK government. Tax returns are not required as I only have pensions.

If all your pension income is taxed at source, great you don't need to file a return

[jwest10]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:46 PM, NoshowJones said:

The Labour government are the same thieving lot that the Tories are. They have had the same chance to stop thieving from the UK OAP's living in certain countries abroad as the Tories. Why can't some people see this?

Exactly 650 of them are pure vermin

[NE1]

I have a form to fill in for my UK pension payments starting next year.  ( IPC BR1 GOV NSP )

Are there any pros or cons to been married ? as they want to know an awful lot about my wife and her origins .

 

 

[Mutt Daeng]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:14 PM, NE1 said:

I have a form to fill in for my UK pension payments starting next year.  ( IPC BR1 GOV NSP )

Are there any pros or cons to been married ? as they want to know an awful lot about my wife and her origins .

 

 

Better to claim by telephone and you avoid most of the questions on that form. That's what I and a lot of other people I know did.

[NE1]

1 hour ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Better to claim by telephone and you avoid most of the questions on that form. That's what I and a lot of other people I know did.

I was thinking about that , do you still have to send your Birth certificate etc by post after ?

Edited December 23, 2023 by NE1

[Mutt Daeng]

10 hours ago, NE1 said:

11 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Better to claim by telephone and you avoid most of the questions on that form. That's what I and a lot of other people I know did.

I was thinking about that , do you still have to send your Birth certificate etc by post after ?

Edited 10 hours ago by NE1

No, It's all done over the phone.

[Tiber]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:09 AM, Huckenfell said:

Why is the business of the government where one lives just as long as one is legally entitled to the pension?

You are right, no business of theirs, however it does give people jobs there at overseas pension dept,and they will cling onto their positions like fury, it wants scrapping.   just do not tell, not lying, but go one further, not big money, request a 'freedom of information' 'how many expats have been punished/money removed/sanctioned etc. for receiving unfrozen old age pension in frozen land,; there is only one, few years ago, a voluntary statement, but there is a story to that one  lol,  Ill give the answer here and now  nobody           Somebody did a request few years ago, but not specific enough, but was answered,  nobody.          UP to you but your wasting thousands

[BritManToo]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:14 PM, NE1 said:

I have a form to fill in for my UK pension payments starting next year.  ( IPC BR1 GOV NSP )

Are there any pros or cons to been married ? as they want to know an awful lot about my wife and her origins .

Tell them you're single, makes the form much easier.

They don't need to know you're married!

[HauptmannUK]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tell them you're single, makes the form much easier.

They don't need to know you're married!

If you are married and have to pay tax on your income you can use part of your wife's unused tax allowance.

[NE1]

4 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

If you are married and have to pay tax on your income you can use part of your wife's unused tax allowance.

Are you talking Thailand tax or UK tax ?

[beautifulthailand99]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:09 AM, BritManToo said:

You're missing the point!

UK banks cancel the accounts of Brits living overseas. There is no information for the DWP to see.

Border Force - entry and exits - all the data is on there if and when they choose to see it and has been for some years and you have to ask yourself why they wouldn't use that it's low-hanging fruit and easy to code for a potentially big return. They could back date it as well and apply penalties. Exit checks came in 2015.

Edited December 27, 2023 by beautifulthailand99

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Border Force - entry and exits - all the data is on there if and when they choose to see it and has been for some years and you have to ask yourself why they wouldn't use that it's low-hanging fruit and easy to code for a potentially big return. They could back date it as well and apply penalties.

You're wrong, they have no idea if you're in or out of the country. The police used to regularly knock on doors looking for me, if they'd had info I was out of the country, they wouldn't waste their time.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong, they have no idea if you're in or out of the country. The police used to regularly knock on doors looking for me, if they'd had info I was out of the country, they wouldn't waste their time.

 

   Passports are biometric these days and they can see who leaves and enters the U.K .

Why were the Police looking for you ? Was it for your crimes in the U.K or Thailand ?

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong, they have no idea if you're in or out of the country. The police used to regularly knock on doors looking for me, if they'd had info I was out of the country, they wouldn't waste their time.

The police may well not have access to the Border Force data on a regular basis but they probably easily could if they had to. A computer somewhere knows who you are and when you entered and exited the country. The DWP has details of your pension and eligibility. It would not be difficult to join up those 2 data sets and indeed would be surprised if they didn't at some point. The reason Thai authorities are going after overseas remittances is probably that they can now that the tech and processor power required to crunch that data is now here.

Edited December 27, 2023 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

Chat GPT

 

As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, there wasn't a direct integration between the UK Border Force's computer system and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) database. However, both agencies play distinct roles, and there are information-sharing mechanisms in place to ensure that immigration and welfare policies are enforced effectively.

The UK Border Force is responsible for securing the UK border, enforcing immigration and customs regulations, and preventing illegal immigration. They use various systems and databases to verify the identity and immigration status of individuals entering or leaving the country.

 

On the other hand, the Department for Work and Pensions manages social welfare and benefits programs in the UK. This department administers a range of benefits, including pensions, unemployment benefits, and disability benefits.

 

While these agencies may share information through government networks and databases, the specifics of their data integration and sharing processes are subject to legal and privacy considerations. The UK government has data protection laws and regulations in place to safeguard individuals' personal information.

 

It's important to note that developments in government systems and policies can change, and there may have been updates or changes since my last knowledge update in January 2022. For the most current and accurate information, I recommend checking with official government sources or contacting the relevant agencies directly.

Edited December 27, 2023 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

Bragging on an open forum about committing pension fraud isn't as clever as you think it is.

 

Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense. The penalties for such fraudulent activities can include both criminal and civil consequences. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, here are potential penalties for defrauding the UK state pension:

1. Criminal Charges: Individuals involved in defrauding the state pension may face criminal charges. If convicted, they could be subject to fines and imprisonment. The severity of the penalties may depend on the nature and extent of the fraud.

2. Civil Penalties: The UK government has mechanisms in place to impose civil penalties for pension fraud. The Pensions Regulator has the authority to take action against individuals or organizations that breach pension law. Civil penalties may involve financial sanctions.

3. Repayment of Illegally Obtained Benefits: Individuals found guilty of pension fraud may be required to repay any state pension benefits obtained through fraudulent means. This could include a requirement to return the funds received improperly.

It's important to note that laws and penalties can change, and new developments may have occurred since my last update in January 2022. If you have concerns or suspicions about pension fraud, it is advisable to report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK, this may include reporting the matter to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or other law enforcement agencies.

[chickenslegs]

20 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Why were the Police looking for you ? Was it for your crimes in the U.K or Thailand ?

Maybe trying to recruit him.

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Bragging on an open forum about committing pension fraud isn't as clever as you think it is.

 

Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense. The penalties for such fraudulent activities can include both criminal and civil consequences. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, here are potential penalties for defrauding the UK state pension:

1. Criminal Charges: Individuals involved in defrauding the state pension may face criminal charges. If convicted, they could be subject to fines and imprisonment. The severity of the penalties may depend on the nature and extent of the fraud.

2. Civil Penalties: The UK government has mechanisms in place to impose civil penalties for pension fraud. The Pensions Regulator has the authority to take action against individuals or organizations that breach pension law. Civil penalties may involve financial sanctions.

3. Repayment of Illegally Obtained Benefits: Individuals found guilty of pension fraud may be required to repay any state pension benefits obtained through fraudulent means. This could include a requirement to return the funds received improperly.

It's important to note that laws and penalties can change, and new developments may have occurred since my last update in January 2022. If you have concerns or suspicions about pension fraud, it is advisable to report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK, this may include reporting the matter to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or other law enforcement agencies.

Reign it in, this is not the place for lectures on UK law or on morality!

[Chris Daley]

I'll get my money somehow.

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense.

If it's such a serious offence, why has nobody ever been charged?

[Mike Lister]

If you live in Thailand and you want to get your state pension normalised, it takes about six months of effort but it can be done more quickly. You will need to return and to all intents and purposes, live there and look like you are going to stay there for ever. You will need:

 

a place to stay, if you own a property you can live in. all the better.

travel there on a one way ticket

transfer some funds from Thailand to the the UK

open a bank account, sign on with a doctor and start paying Council Tax

 

After a while, DWP will write to you and ask you to fill out a form about your customary and settled lifestyle

Becoming permanently resident again is not based on the number of days that you spend in a any one location, it looks at all the other factors. The process tries to determine if you have really returned and where you have ties to. After six months any changes will be bedded in and permanent.

 

I've done the above twice in twenty years. On both occasions my plan was to return and spend six months in both locations but to be UK resident for tax purposes. My plans fell apart, most recently because of covid and before that, because of a change of heart. On both occasions my state pension was uplifted which it continues to be today, all legal and above boards

 

[brianthainess]

40 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Bragging on an open forum about committing pension fraud isn't as clever as you think it is.

 

Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense. The penalties for such fraudulent activities can include both criminal and civil consequences. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, here are potential penalties for defrauding the UK state pension:

1. Criminal Charges: Individuals involved in defrauding the state pension may face criminal charges. If convicted, they could be subject to fines and imprisonment. The severity of the penalties may depend on the nature and extent of the fraud.

2. Civil Penalties: The UK government has mechanisms in place to impose civil penalties for pension fraud. The Pensions Regulator has the authority to take action against individuals or organizations that breach pension law. Civil penalties may involve financial sanctions.

3. Repayment of Illegally Obtained Benefits: Individuals found guilty of pension fraud may be required to repay any state pension benefits obtained through fraudulent means. This could include a requirement to return the funds received improperly.

It's important to note that laws and penalties can change, and new developments may have occurred since my last update in January 2022. If you have concerns or suspicions about pension fraud, it is advisable to report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK, this may include reporting the matter to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or other law enforcement agencies.

Claiming the state pension when living in Thailand is not fraud, claiming the increases is.

[brianthainess]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:02 AM, Mike Lister said:

I agree. People who claim to be UK resident in order to obtain increases to the State Pension every year, had better be filing tax returns as UK residents.

 

 

The state pension is below the UK tax threshold so unless you have other income there is no reason to file a tax return.

[beautifulthailand99]

This is the cost of uplifting the frozen pension - 4.5 billion over 5 years.  Let's say for argument's sake 5% is fraudulently claimed then that's a potential loss of 250 million. The cost to amend the system effectively peanuts - ROI for the civil servant that recommends it to the minister is off the scale. Data doesn't live in dusty silos anymore.  You may or may not get away with it but I wouldn't bet on it.                                                                  

                                                                                                                                            

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/estimated-cost-of-uprating-uk-state-pensions-in-frozen-rate-countries-2024-to-2028/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries-2024-to-2028

[Nick Carter icp]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

The state pension is below the UK tax threshold so unless you have other income there is no reason to file a tax return.

 

    You still need to file a tax return, even if you don't have to pay any tax .

Although you can contact them and ask to be exempt from filing a return 

[Nick Carter icp]

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If it's such a serious offence, why has nobody ever been charged?

 

   It can be reported here .

You have given your Thai address out numerous times , well , given the location, photos and things nearby and it wouldn't be too difficult to find your gated community with fat middle class Thai woman  living there 

 

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It can be reported here .

You have given your Thai address out numerous times , well , given the location, photos and things nearby and it wouldn't be too difficult to find your gated community with fat middle class Thai woman  living there 

 

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

It's interesting how much some people fear their governments. I've always found the authorities (everywhere) to be lazy and incompetent.

Edited December 27, 2023 by BritManToo

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong, they have no idea if you're in or out of the country. The police used to regularly knock on doors looking for me, if they'd had info I was out of the country, they wouldn't waste their time.

Obviously low level crime.

 

Had you been s murder suspect, they would have found out where you were/are.