The Children of Gaza = More than 7000 Killed.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:47 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I think they need to temper their ambitions of what a successful outcome might look like.

 

Do they even know themselves, or are they just making it up as they go along? We know what happens when they don't get it right, as the Americans found out in Iraq, and they lost more troops after the "victory" than during the war.

IMO the israelis thought they could drive them into Egypt never to return, but Sisi put the kibosh on that plan, and quite sensibly too. He knows what will happen if there is a huge refugee camp right next to the israeli border.

 

I think I know what they want to do now, given their actions to destroy water sources and deny food and medicine, but I'm not going to say on here what that is.

 

Whatever they thought they could do, will be negated by the willing volunteers for the resistance from most of the survivors of Gaza.

Israel will be in perpetual war for generations- is that what they really want?

Like it says in the Bible, sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Again with them fantasies.

 

There was actually wide acknowledgement Egypt will not allow anything of the sort. Nothing new there, and no reason to expect Egypt to change its policies. 

 

Your usual insinuations are, similarly, not supported by facts. Guess you missed out the part where the center of the Gaza Strip is yet to see major attacks, Rafah being largely untouched and there still being Palestinians even in the northern part of the Gaza Strip.

 

And as usual, like Hamas, you seem to be willing to fight to the last Palestinian.

 

Did it occur to you that if Israel will be an perpetual war, then so will the Palestinians - who will never get their own state?

 

So far the Bible seems to have got it wrong - Hamas sawed, the Gazan reap.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:52 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

A/ If israel is actually able to be destroyed by a few fighters armed with rifles and RPGs, Israel doesn't have a hope of survival anyway. Who has all the tanks, who has all the artillery, who has the airforce, who has the huge trained reserve, who has the gunboats, who has the guided missiles and the air defenses, who has the absolute support of the most powerful country in the world? If you don't know, it's not Palestine.

 

B/ it's not possible to destroy Hamas unless you kill every man woman and child in Palestine and all those Palestinians outside Palestine as well.

By now there is probably within the beating heart of every Palestinian an unquenchable desire for revenge against israel, and that will be passed down generation to generation. Kill every Hamas fighter and they will be replaced. The name may change, but the desire will be the same- revenge on israel. The whirlwind is coming.

 

Some things are unforgivable and will never be forgotten.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Is it possible to make Hamas a minimal threat, using current tactics and strategy. It just takes time.

 

The IS, AQ and the PLO all went through this.

 

And while your fiery words might convince yourself - I'm less sure than you that all Palestinians will sign up for what you offer.

But again, you're not making an argument, just posting hot air.

 

So much pathos.....it's ridiculous.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 8:00 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's just as well it was the israelis that killed them. If the Palestinians had killed 3 unarmed israelis under a white flag they would likely have destroyed half of the remaining undestroyed Gaza by now.

Apparently it's only OK to kill unarmed civilians if it's israelis doing it.

 

I wonder how the israeli apologists are going to cover for soldiers that deliberately killed 3 unarmed men under a white flag. Expect more but but but stories anytime soon.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Nobody but you claimed it's ok.

 

You seemed to claim its acceptable/understandable for Hamas to kill civilians.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:29 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

As I pointed out to another poster, a trained soldier shoots only what he aims at. If they shot unarmed men under a white flag it was deliberate, because they thought they were Palestinians, IMO.

It will never be admitted, but if they were Palestinian men, there would be none of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about it. Probably be cheering the shooter.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Is this based on your extensive military combat service under similar situations?

 

And here's a reminder - the Palestinians are the ones who kidnapped them to begin with....

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:34 AM, ozimoron said:

 

Those trained soldiers must have been shaking at the knees as they saw 3 unarmed and shirtless hostages waving a white flag.

 

Said the hero of the sea cadets.

[Morch]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:35 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Tis you with the double talk. I thought you were better than that.

 

When the allies went into Japan you are right, they didn't massacre the population, UNLIKE what is happening in Gaza where they are massacring the civilian population, including over 7,000 children. Had the allies gone into Japan and blown up thousands of children, would the Japanese be of the same mind now?

 

I'm done with you for that post. Carry on without me from now on.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

A couple of pointers:

 

The USA bombed the living hell out of Japan. Look up Doolittle, Hiroshima for reference.

Japan surrendered.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think your hatred of Palestinians has warped your mind, by what you so openly say.

I pity you.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

You make similar comments about Israelis in general.

Others on here (can't recall if you too, I think so) claimed Biden is guilty of 'war crimes' because the USA supplies arms to Israel.

 

So really, your faux outrage and condemnation aren't very convincing.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

He and his buddy Netanyahu have been supporting Hamas for years.

 

Buddies how?

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

How exactly was any foreign money spent digging these tunnels? Did they buy earthmoving equipment? Employ thousands of workers? I'm curious as to how this works. 

 

Concrete costs money.

And yes, some digging machinery that wasn't supposed to be there was discovered.

I think it may appear in one of the recent vids posted about that large tunnel just discovered.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Your racism is showing and you have no idea about me. You simply resort to insulting others because you don't have the courage to criticise the actions fo your own country.

 

No, that would be you having no clue. Call it racism or whatever, but it's like that. It's just the way it is.

That your politics dictate all cultures are same, doesn't make them so.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Yes, to the shame of Israel, the IDF and inelegance services Israel was so proud of, turned out PM Netanyahu knew very well and in advance of the billions Qatari money flowing to Gaza and turned a blind eye thinking it will be put for a good use and for the better of everyone, little he knew that it will come to bite him in the ass some years later and in a BIG way,

and yes, it was reported that up to 50,000 Palestinians were employed in digging those state of the art tunnels and subways, and again yes, Palestinians were free to buy earth moving equipment in Israel and used in Gaza, presumably with good intentions, but know we all know the truth... 

 

Netanyahu was alerted and informed to monies going to Hamas, Hamas investment ventures abroad that could have been disrupted and other such things. He ignored them.

 

 

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Rubbish. Netanyahu knew very well he was strengthening Hamas to ruin the prospects of the PA to gain controlling power over Gaza. He active aided and abetted Hamas when he could have destroyed them economically and politically. That's what bit him on the ass, not his feigned ignorance of their activities.

 

About this, we have no disagreement. He chose his political survival (this isn't about ideology much, even) over the country's security.

[metisdead]

A post in which the quoted content had been altered contravening our Forum Rules has been removed:

 

28. You will not make changes to messages quoted from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. Do not shorten any post in a way that alters the context of the original post. Do not change the formatting of the post you are quoting.

 

 

[ozimoron]

33 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Buddies how?

 

Before the war in Ukraine, Israel and Russia enjoyed positive strategic relations. The bond and trust between Putin and Netanyahu had allowed Israel to operate against Hezbollah and Iranian targets within Syria and Iran, actions that necessitated quiet consent from Russia.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/netanyahu-has-finally-realised-russia-is-no-friend-of-israel/

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Before the war in Ukraine, Israel and Russia enjoyed positive strategic relations. The bond and trust between Putin and Netanyahu had allowed Israel to operate against Hezbollah and Iranian targets within Syria and Iran, actions that necessitated quiet consent from Russia.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/netanyahu-has-finally-realised-russia-is-no-friend-of-israel/

 

There was no bond. It was a meeting of specific interests. The minute it didn't suit him, Putin wen the other way.

The one that was hyping his connection with Putin was Netanyahu. When push came to shove it didn't amount to much.

And unless you missed it, the war in Ukraine started a while back - long before the 7/10 attack by Hamas.

So the 'buddies' bit has no current relevance (if it ever did) - just an attempt by you to tie them together.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There was no bond. It was a meeting of specific interests. The minute it didn't suit him, Putin wen the other way.

The one that was hyping his connection with Putin was Netanyahu. When push came to shove it didn't amount to much.

And unless you missed it, the war in Ukraine started a while back - long before the 7/10 attack by Hamas.

So the 'buddies' bit has no current relevance (if it ever did) - just an attempt by you to tie them together.

 

Gee, even Lavrov is the voice of balance here.

 

After the phone call between Netanyahu and Putin, Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has, for the first time, condemned Hamas’s attack, recognising it as an act of terrorism. At the same time, Lavrov also accused Israel of indiscriminately shelling Gaza. 

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Gee, even Lavrov is the voice of balance here.

 

After the phone call between Netanyahu and Putin, Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov has, for the first time, condemned Hamas’s attack, recognising it as an act of terrorism. At the same time, Lavrov also accused Israel of indiscriminately shelling Gaza. 

 

Russia does what's best for Russia. Putin does what's best for Putin. I don't think he actually got 'buddies' as such.

Considering current ties with Iran, stance on Hamas - not exactly what you advertised.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Russia does what's best for Russia. Putin does what's best for Putin. I don't think he actually got 'buddies' as such.

Considering current ties with Iran, stance on Hamas - not exactly what you advertised.

 

For decades Russia's and Israel's interest aligned in supporting Hamas. Stop trying to rewrite history.

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

For decades Russia's and Israel's interest aligned in supporting Hamas. Stop trying to rewrite history.

 

Decades?

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Decades?

 

Allergic to google? It seems some here aren't well informed about their dear leader.

 

For 14 years, Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; the pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps the Israeli prime minister preserve his own rule

 

Much ink has been spilled describing the longtime relationship – rather, alliance – between Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas. And still, the very fact that there has been close cooperation between the Israeli prime minister (with the support of many on the right) and the fundamentalist organization seemingly evaporated from most of the current analyses – everyone’s talking about “failures,” “mistakes” and “contzeptziot” (fixed conceptions).

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

 

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

 

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

Since the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, the Gulf state of Qatar has come under fire by Israeli officials, American politicians and media outlets for sending hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Gaza, which is governed by the Palestinian militant group.

But all that happened with Israel’s blessing.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

 

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Allergic to google? It seems some here aren't well informed about their dear leader.

 

For 14 years, Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; the pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps the Israeli prime minister preserve his own rule

 

Much ink has been spilled describing the longtime relationship – rather, alliance – between Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas. And still, the very fact that there has been close cooperation between the Israeli prime minister (with the support of many on the right) and the fundamentalist organization seemingly evaporated from most of the current analyses – everyone’s talking about “failures,” “mistakes” and “contzeptziot” (fixed conceptions).

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

 

Oh, that kind of 'decades - like one and a half. See, I was expecting something more accurate, and forgot that you love you exaggerations - buddies, decades - anything goes to make it sounds right. You still haven't made you original 'buddies' point, though, and Netanyahu's bad choices were not denied or ignored. As for 'dear leader' - I know you don't bother reading topics, but most of what I post about the man is criticism and negativity. Same thing every time - you make a comment that either not true or overboard, then dig your hole deeper.

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Oh, that kind of 'decades - like one and a half. See, I was expecting something more accurate, and forgot that you love you exaggerations - buddies, decades - anything goes to make it sounds right. You still haven't made you original 'buddies' point, though, and Netanyahu's bad choices were not denied or ignored. As for 'dear leader' - I know you don't bother reading topics, but most of what I post about the man is criticism and negativity. Same thing every time - you make a comment that either not true or overboard, then dig your hole deeper.

 

When I did math 1.4 was a plural number. It's a long time however you cut it.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

When I did math 1.4 was a plural number. It's a long time however you cut it.

 

Grasping at straws there, cadet.

[ozimoron]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Grasping at straws there, cadet.

 

Really? Netanyahu actively supports Hamas for 14 years and you brush that off as clutching at straws or no big deal? You should be condemning Netanyau for this instead of defending him. Do you support Hamas as well because your hero does. Every time Hamas killed a settler or fired a missile, Netanyahu rubbed his hands with glee because it gave him an excuse to divide the Palestinians further.

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Really? Netanyahu actively supports Hamas for 14 years and you brush that off as clutching at straws or no big deal? You should be condemning Netanyau for this instead of defending him. Do you support Hamas as well because your hero does. Every time Hamas killed a settler or fired a missile, Netanyahu rubbed his hands with glee because it gave him an excuse to divide the Palestinians further.

 

No, that would be you presenting my comments in a misleading way.

 

What I brush aside is your claims about Netanyahu and Putin being 'buddies, or that the relevant 'support' lasted 'decades'.

 

There was nothing said about, 'no big deal', there was no 'defense' of Netanyahu offered, Netanyahu is not 'my hero', and I don't know what Netanyahu does in private - maybe you two are 'buddies' and you know better.

 

So what we've got above is a pack of dishonest lies from you based on absolutely nothing that I've said.

 

You cannot back up your hyperbole, so you dig a deeper hole. When that fails, you go on dishonest personal attacks.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, that would be you presenting my comments in a misleading way.

 

What I brush aside is your claims about Netanyahu and Putin being 'buddies, or that the relevant 'support' lasted 'decades'.

 

There was nothing said about, 'no big deal', there was no 'defense' of Netanyahu offered, Netanyahu is not 'my hero', and I don't know what Netanyahu does in private - maybe you two are 'buddies' and you know better.

 

So what we've got above is a pack of dishonest lies from you based on absolutely nothing that I've said.

 

You cannot back up your hyperbole, so you dig a deeper hole. When that fails, you go on dishonest personal attacks.

 

You downplay 14 years as if it were 5 minutes.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

You downplay 14 years as if it were 5 minutes.

 

I do no such thing.

I point out to your hyperbole comments, which you cannot own up to.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I do no such thing.

I point out to your hyperbole comments, which you cannot own up to.

 

Won't condemn Netanyahu for enabling Hamas? Many in Israel do. And it was decades, you just won't back up your claims or denials.

 

The accusations aimed at Netanyahu go beyond merely failing to foresee or prevent the Hamas attack of October 7, however. Many accuse him of deliberately empowering the group for decades as part of a strategy to sabotage a two-state solution based on the principle of land for peace.

 

This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

 

[ozimoron]

Netanyahu's hawkish defence minister Avigdor Liberman was the first to report in 2020 that Bibi had dispatched Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the IDF's officer in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, to Doha to "beg" the Qataris to continue to send money to Hamas.

 

"Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas," the right-wing leader complained.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Won't condemn Netanyahu for enabling Hamas? Many in Israel do. And it was decades, you just won't back up your claims or denials.

 

The accusations aimed at Netanyahu go beyond merely failing to foresee or prevent the Hamas attack of October 7, however. Many accuse him of deliberately empowering the group for decades as part of a strategy to sabotage a two-state solution based on the principle of land for peace.

 

This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

 

 

What is up with your lies?

 

I did condemn him in posts on here, and it's not exactly news even. Not for anyone who's been following things.

 

You act like you've got some 'a-ha' moment, you don't.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Netanyahu's hawkish defence minister Avigdor Liberman was the first to report in 2020 that Bibi had dispatched Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the IDF's officer in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, to Doha to "beg" the Qataris to continue to send money to Hamas.

 

"Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas," the right-wing leader complained.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

Yes...and?

 

This has been linked and discussed already, you know? Oh, forgot - you don't read topics.