Statins stimulate atherosclerosis and heart failure: pharmacological mechanisms

[BritManToo]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:41 PM, JensenZ said:

It's more important how well you live rather than how long you live. We can call this your health span, which comes to an end in your marginal decade. Your lifespan can have several useless years near the end if you're not lucky enough to die suddenly, avoid

It's already been named HLE, healthy life expectancy and is 61, then you have DFLE, disability free life expectancy and is 63.

[save the frogs]

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

D@mn good, enjoyed every bite. Longhorn Steakhouse Pattaya.

 

but it's not feasible to eat steaks in restaurants on a regular basis. far too expensive.

better to learn how to cook a decent steak at home / invest in a good grill. 

 

[save the frogs]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

why no vegetables? i love vegetables plus fibre and all that, constipated?

some vegetables have things which some experts consider harmful, like OXALATES, LECTINS ...

maybe too many of these vegetables can be problematic.

not sure. a lot of complex stuff in the nutrition world. 

[save the frogs]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

why no vegetables? i love vegetables plus fibre and all that, constipated?

I am constantly making tweaks, but I'm not sure if I know what I'm doing.

All nutritionists are giving conflicting advice.

Used to think butter was ok. Now thinking to get rid of butter and use coconut oil (high in MCTs).

And avoiding dairy, except goat cheese. The goats cheese uses a different protein than cow cheese. 

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

but it's not feasible to eat steaks in restaurants on a regular basis. far too expensive.

 

For ordinary mortals, yes.

 

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

better to learn how to cook a decent steak at home / invest in a good grill. 

 

I'm too lazy myself, but of course I agree, as would the many serious foodies we seem to have among our members. 

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I am constantly making tweaks, but I'm not sure if I know what I'm doing.

All nutritionists are giving conflicting advice.

Used to think butter was ok. Now thinking to get rid of butter and use coconut oil (high in MCTs).

And avoiding dairy, except goat cheese. The goats cheese uses a different protein than cow cheese. 

 

Is it working? i had a blood test last week, all results very good, my high carb low fat diet works very well, plus i enjoy fruit and veg, eat a lot, great to eat when you want and carbs make you feel good

[save the frogs]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Is it working? i had a blood test last week, all results very good, my high carb low fat diet works very well, plus i enjoy fruit and veg, eat a lot, great to eat when you want and carbs make you feel good

I have no idea. I don't get blood work done. 

And I don't fully trust the medical establishment.

If I get on their radar, they'll probably start pushing statins on me. 

 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I have no idea. I don't get blood work done. 

And I don't fully trust the medical establishment.

If I get on their radar, they'll probably start pushing statins on me. 

 

without blood tests you won't know if your strange diet is good or bad

[save the frogs]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

without blood tests you won't know if your strange diet is good or bad

 

 

I don't trust most doctors to help me deal with those blood test results in the best way. 

 

The topic is statins. They are probably being way over-prescribed. 

 

I need to educate myself more about blood tests. I haven't gotten around to it.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

 

I don't trust most doctors to help me deal with those blood test results in the best way. 

 

The topic is statins. They are probably being way over-prescribed. 

 

I need to educate myself more about blood tests. I haven't gotten around to it.

 

 

Go to a lab, no need for a doctor unless you want to explore further. Google will help you understand the key blood tests. 700 baht from lifecare lab gives a very good list of tests

Edited December 25, 2023 by scubascuba3

[save the frogs]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Go to a lab, no need for a doctor unless you want to explore further. Google will help you understand the key blood tests. 700 baht from lifecare lab gives a very good list of tests

ok thanks for the tip, scuba.

[mstevens]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

 

 

I don't trust most doctors to help me deal with those blood test results in the best way. 

 

The topic is statins. They are probably being way over-prescribed. 

 

I need to educate myself more about blood tests. I haven't gotten around to it.

 

 

 

I used to be like you and was reluctant to get blood tests. And like you, it was largely due to concerns about the medical industry and the way so many doctors throw pills at a problem to address the symptoms without identifying and addressing the route cause. I figured why should I get blood tests done if it is simply going to result in me taking pills when I am doing ok without those pills!

But what I found was that when I started getting blood tests done, it sort of became addictive as I adjusted my diet and lifestyle to improve my numbers. Taking zinc, for example, caused by PSA to drop from mid-range normal to low-range normal (which is better). Eating a medium protein, high fat diet and reducing carbs to less than 100 grams / day caused my cholesterol numbers to go from very good to superb with very, very high HDL and very, very low triglycerides (which is exactly what you want). My LDL is quite high but as a lean mass hyper responder, that is of zero concern.

 

I went from getting no blood tests done for a very long time to getting a range of blood tests done regularly and, like I say, it's enjoyable to see the results of lifestyle changes. And the great thing about Thailand is that you can get blood tests done very easily and very affordably!

 

 

[mstevens]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Is it working? i had a blood test last week, all results very good, my high carb low fat diet works very well, plus i enjoy fruit and veg, eat a lot, great to eat when you want and carbs make you feel good

 

Good to hear your diet has produced good results. I have the complete opposite diet (high fat, medium protein, relatively low carbs) and my nubmers are also very good. It just goes to show that different diets can work well for different people!

[save the frogs]

10 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 

I used to be like you and was reluctant to get blood tests. And like you, it was largely due to concerns about the medical industry and the way so many doctors throw pills at a problem to address the symptoms without identifying and addressing the route cause. I figured why should I get blood tests done if it is simply going to result in me taking pills when I am doing ok without those pills!

But what I found was that when I started getting blood tests done, it sort of became addictive as I adjusted my diet and lifestyle to improve my numbers. Taking zinc, for example, caused by PSA to drop from mid-range normal to low-range normal (which is better). Eating a medium protein, high fat diet and reducing carbs to less than 100 grams / day caused my cholesterol numbers to go from very good to superb with very, very high HDL and very, very low triglycerides (which is exactly what you want). My LDL is quite high but as a lean mass hyper responder, that is of zero concern.

 

I went from getting no blood tests done for a very long time to getting a range of blood tests done regularly and, like I say, it's enjoyable to see the results of lifestyle changes. And the great thing about Thailand is that you can get blood tests done very easily and very affordably!

 

 

 

thanks.

 

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 

Good to hear your diet has produced good results. I have the complete opposite diet (high fat, medium protein, relatively low carbs) and my nubmers are also very good. It just goes to show that different diets can work well for different people!

Kinda, apparently toxins start building up on these low carb ketosis type diets, i guess time will tell 

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

Good to hear your diet has produced good results. I have the complete opposite diet (high fat, medium protein, relatively low carbs) and my nubmers are also very good. It just goes to show that different diets can work well for different people!

 

 

But a lot went unmentioned.

@scubascuba3 does quite a lot of exercise, 400 km a week of bicycling (am I remembering correctly?), supposedly 10k km a year around the outskirts of Pattaya, works out in gym as well. So, burns off a lot of the glucose. Still, suffers insulin drops after spikes and needs to eat again. When he finds himself gaining weight, as he inevitably does, he cuts calories (mostly carbs) to get back to a healthy weight. Evidently hasn't checked his visceral fat, had a CAC scan or an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test). And, evidently a trust fund beneficiary, is a lot younger than most members here.

 

Getting regular checkups is critical, however. @save the frogs definitely should do that.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by BigStar

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, BigStar said:

 

 

But a lot went unmentioned.

@scubascuba3 does quite a lot of exercise, 400 km a week of bicycling (am I remembering correctly?), supposedly 10k km a year around the outskirts of Pattaya, works out in gym as well. So, burns off a lot of the glucose. Still, suffers insulin drops after spikes and needs to eat again. When he finds himself gaining weight, as he inevitably does, he cuts calories (mostly carbs) to get back to a healthy weight. Evidently hasn't checked his visceral fat, had a CAC scan or an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test). And, evidently a trust fund beneficiary, is a lot younger than most members here.

 

Getting regular checkups is critical, however. @save the frogs definitely should do that.

 

 

for me gaining weight is 1kg, I'd expect everyone with a good diet to go up and down a little, don't forget the McDonell's, your favourite family, don't do any exercise and are slim and stay slim. If I wanted to put weight on I'd eat more fatty food

[BigStar]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

for me gaining weight is 1kg,

 

or 2 kg, let's not be too modest here.

 

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'd expect everyone with a good diet to go up and down a little

 

It's amazing how mine hardly varies. I think there may be something to body weight set point theory. If so, it's a mixed blessing, good in some cases (reset to a slim constant) or bad (keeps you fat even when you eat less). 

 

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

don't forget the McDonell's, your favourite family, don't do any exercise and are slim and stay slim.

 

McDougall's diet seems to cause premature dementia, a first manifestation of which may be forgetting how to spell his name. But that family's fortune is built on their staying slim. Now you can stay slim on any diet if you restrict calories sufficiently. The Auschwitz survivors hadn't had much exercise. But, as you've been informed several times, being slim doesn't guarantee you're healthy or have no underlying issues.

 

17 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If I wanted to put weight on I'd eat more fatty food

 

Or just exercise a lot less. :)

 

 

[scubascuba3]

45 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Now you can stay slim on any diet if you restrict calories sufficiently. The Auschwitz survivors hadn't had much exercise. But, as you've been informed several times, being slim doesn't guarantee you're healthy or have no underlying issues.

The whole point of high carb low fat is you don't restrict calories, you keep eating until satiated 

[BigStar]

22 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The whole point of high carb low fat is you don't restrict calories, you keep eating until satiated 

 

Which doesn't work well, as you're not satiated when you normally should be, owing to insulin resistance and the dysregulation of appetite. The point really is to keep eating until you're fat and diabetic, keeping the food industry, docs, and drug companies in business.

 

A low carb diet does help ensure you stop eating when you should because you stay insulin sensitive. Hunger is then not a problem.

 

And you yourself do in fact restrict calories when you become overweight by eating less carb-rich junk foods.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

 

Which doesn't work well, as you're not satiated when you normally should be, owing to insulin resistance and the dysregulation of appetite. The point really is to keep eating until you're fat and diabetic, keeping the food industry, docs, and drug companies in business.

 

A low carb diet does help ensure you stop eating when you should because you stay insulin sensitive. Hunger is then not a problem.

 

And you yourself do in fact restrict calories when you become overweight by eating less carb-rich junk foods.

you've got that all wrong, carbs are great for being satiated, there's no insulin resistance thanks, only in your carb phobic dreams

[save the frogs]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

there's no insulin resistance thanks

Is there a specific test to check how insulin resistant you are? Is that OGTT? 

 

[save the frogs]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The whole point of high carb low fat is you don't restrict calories, you keep eating until satiated 

Your assertions about fat are over-simplified. 

 

Too much fat CAN make you gain weight, but that doesn't mean you need to eat no fat. 

 

I won't bother linking the video, but just watched a guy who is super lean and fit. He explains how he has gained weight by eating too much butter, so he cut down on butter.

 

But he is still eating around 175grams of fat (30g from butter) every day. 

 

 

[save the frogs]

8 hours ago, BigStar said:

supposedly 10k km a year around the outskirts of Pattaya, works out in gym as well. So, burns off a lot of the glucose. Still, suffers insulin drops after spikes and needs to eat again. When he finds himself gaining weight, as he inevitably does, he cuts calories (mostly carbs) to get back to a healthy weight.

 

Some carbs are very high in electrolytes. Like bananas .. potassium. Coconut water . 

Low carb people need to supplement with electrolyte powders to compensate for low levels of electrolytes. 

Also, very low carb leads to constipation issues. At least it did for me.

Many people gain weight because they are inactive.

You can cheat more with no carbs and not gain weight even if you're not active.

But a 0 carb diet does not appear to be optimal just based on electrolyte deficiencies and constipation issues alone. There are probably other reasons why consistently 0 or near zero carb may not be optimal. 

But I'm not convinced what the optimal diet is yet. But I don't think eating only meat is optimal. But some people seem to do it for long periods of time and maybe it does work for them.

I got sick of the constipation. 

Although it is more challenging to keep slim when you add some carbs. You really do need to be very active. 

 

And speaking of carbs, I just watched one of Sten Ekberg's videos on honey. And of course, being a low carb scientific type, he was warning against excess honey. But one guy in the comments section was from Greece and claims to eat a boatload of honey and have good numbers. I don't think scientists have a complete grasp on what some of these carbs are doing in the body. Honey, for instance, appears to mystify scientists.

Edited December 25, 2023 by save the frogs

[scubascuba3]

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Your assertions about fat are over-simplified. 

 

Too much fat CAN make you gain weight, but that doesn't mean you need to eat no fat. 

 

I won't bother linking the video, but just watched a guy who is super lean and fit. He explains how he has gained weight by eating too much butter, so he cut down on butter.

 

But he is still eating around 175grams of fat (30g from butter) every day. 

 

 

Yep that's why it's low fat, not no fat

[scubascuba3]

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Is there a specific test to check how insulin resistant you are? Is that OGTT? 

 

I don't know but probably it would be indicated in hba1c then further tests if needed, being insulin resistant is part of being diabetic type 2

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I just watched one of Sten Ekberg's videos on honey. And of course, being a low carb scientific type, he was warning against excess honey. But one guy in the comments section was from Greece and claims to eat a boatload of honey and have good numbers. I don't think scientists have a complete grasp on what some of these carbs are doing in the body. Honey, for instance, appears to mystify scientists.

As you say these "YouTube experts" don't really know, i know high carb people who eat a lot of table sugar and are slim and have good numbers with not much exercise. Trial and error is a good way to find out whats working with blood tests before and after. I hear reports of low carbers struggle with constipation and can be sickly, plus ex keto people comment about toxins build up over time, along with other negatives

[scubascuba3]

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Your assertions about fat are over-simplified. 

 

Too much fat CAN make you gain weight, but that doesn't mean you need to eat no fat. 

 

I won't bother linking the video, but just watched a guy who is super lean and fit. He explains how he has gained weight by eating too much butter, so he cut down on butter.

 

But he is still eating around 175grams of fat (30g from butter) every day. 

 

 

A key thing with carbs is low fat, if you are high fat high carb it gets bad results hence all the really fat people and obese America

[save the frogs]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

As you say these "YouTube experts" don't really know,

a lot of them have medical degrees.

nobody knows. seems like the human body is too complex for science to fully grasp. 

we need to learn by trial and error. 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

A key thing with carbs is low fat, if you are high fat high carb it gets bad results hence all the really fat people and obese America

Good Carbs Bad Carbs

Good Fats Bad Fats

Good Cop Bad Cop