refused first 1 year extension of stay on Non-O retirment visa at CW today

[norbra]

1 hour ago, likerdup1 said:

I had no problems in the past at CW. This is a recent occurrence at this particular desk. AND I BELIEVE A TREND. It looks as though that all appointments specifically for a retirement Non-O 1 year extension made online go to this desk. I made another appointment and again,was directed to L1 35.

 

So, if this is the case, (and it certainly looks to be) anyone making an appointment online for a retirement visa extension will face the two IO's at this desk. The female and senior male I/O behind her. Any expats applying at that desk will more than likely face the same scrutiny of their housing/residency documents as I and Des1 had.

 

Despite what has worked in the past for many on this board, it looks to be that things have changed. Where just a TM.30 and lease were enough (I was told that just the TM.30 and receipts of monthly payment should be sufficient) Now this desk is asking for a 1 year lease, Tabien Baan, House Deed and ID of owner . All copied and signed by owner.

 

It's wonderful we have reports of past fair treatment, but as they say in the finance world. Past performance does not guarantee future performance :-)

 

This appears to be a trend and in the spirit of helpfulness anyone with an appointment at that desk would do well to be prepared. IMHO.

 

Just out of interest who directed you to L35?

[bamnutsak]

As CW is my reporting office, and I've done ~ 10 consecutive Ext Stay/Ret/Inc there, I follw the requirements quite closely. The trip reports some post here aer often very detailed and extremely helpful.

I update my doc list whenever people list a potentially new requirement. 

 

My current list re: domicile ...
Lease: term runs longer than the applied for ext stay + ~ 3 months)

12 months of monthly bills and proof pf payment
Blue book signed by landlord
Thai ID card – lined through twice, "for Immigration only" signed
TM30 filing 
Photo_ House, self, number and name visible
Hand-drawn map + Gooogle maps
TM6 copies
90-day report (receipt)

 

 

I also found this table from a trip report

UPDATED 17th MARCH 2020
CHAENG WATTANA IMMIGRATION DIVISION 1
APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF STAY TO NON-IMM "O" RETIREMENT VISA - CONDO RENTER    TICK
Form "TM7" completed in BLUE ink dated and signed      
Copies of passport I.D pages, past Immigration stamps, entry, exit past and current visas’, past and current extensions of stay,  and copy of "TM6" from last arrival date to Thailand      
Copy last 90 -day report     
Copy signed lease, rental agreement     
Copy TM30 showing "TM6" barcode number     
Condo owner I.D     
Copy of condo Tabien Baan     
Copy of your name entered into Tabien Baan     
Bank Deposit confirmation letter (No older that 7 days)     
Copy of transactions in bankbook showing balance updated on the day of application     
Self-hand drawn map of Condo area     
"Number 3", statement from Juristic or Thai person guaranteeing you live at the address of the application     
Signed "STM2"Acknowldgement understanding terms of stay approval     
Signed Acknowledgement understanding penalties of overstaying visa     
1900 Baht     

And my experience in the L Desk area is different than the OPs. First-level IO reviews documents, reorders them, and collects the fee stamps the passport sends you out to wait. My package gets reviewed by at least two more officers, while I'm seated in the waiting area, before my passport is returned. These get batched into three or four.

 

During my most recent renewal in September, I did witness the chap in front of me dealing with a male (supervisor, I inferred) IO on his financials.

 

Things like a lease, the house book, owner's ID have been on my list for at least six years. I always provide them, some years these are kept, other times returned to me.

 

IMO, the OP just needs to get the documents (lease, house book, owner's ID) and obtain the extension. Kvetching about changes, and specific desk numbers seems like a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by bamnutsak

[likerdup1]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:41 PM, bamnutsak said:

As CW is my reporting office, and I've done ~ 10 consecutive Ext Stay/Ret/Inc there, I follw the requirements quite closely. The trip reports some post here aer often very detailed and extremely helpful.

I update my doc list whenever people list a potentially new requirement. 

 

My current list re: domicile ...
Lease: term runs longer than the applied for ext stay + ~ 3 months)

12 months of monthly bills and proof pf payment
Blue book signed by landlord
Thai ID card – lined through twice, "for Immigration only" signed
TM30 filing 
Photo_ House, self, number and name visible
Hand-drawn map + Gooogle maps
TM6 copies
90-day report (receipt)

 

 

I also found this table from a trip report

UPDATED 17th MARCH 2020
CHAENG WATTANA IMMIGRATION DIVISION 1
APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF STAY TO NON-IMM "O" RETIREMENT VISA - CONDO RENTER    TICK
Form "TM7" completed in BLUE ink dated and signed      
Copies of passport I.D pages, past Immigration stamps, entry, exit past and current visas’, past and current extensions of stay,  and copy of "TM6" from last arrival date to Thailand      
Copy last 90 -day report     
Copy signed lease, rental agreement     
Copy TM30 showing "TM6" barcode number     
Condo owner I.D     
Copy of condo Tabien Baan     
Copy of your name entered into Tabien Baan     
Bank Deposit confirmation letter (No older that 7 days)     
Copy of transactions in bankbook showing balance updated on the day of application     
Self-hand drawn map of Condo area     
"Number 3", statement from Juristic or Thai person guaranteeing you live at the address of the application     
Signed "STM2"Acknowldgement understanding terms of stay approval     
Signed Acknowledgement understanding penalties of overstaying visa     
1900 Baht     

And my experience in the L Desk area is different than the OPs. First-level IO reviews documents, reorders them, and collects the fee stamps the passport sends you out to wait. My package gets reviewed by at least two more officers, while I'm seated in the waiting area, before my passport is returned. These get batched into three or four.

 

During my most recent renewal in September, I did witness the chap in front of me dealing with a male (supervisor, I inferred) IO on his financials.

 

Things like a lease, the house book, owner's ID have been on my list for at least six years. I always provide them, some years these are kept, other times returned to me.

 

IMO, the OP just needs to get the documents (lease, house book, owner's ID) and obtain the extension. Kvetching about changes, and specific desk numbers seems like a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for providing this list. It is exactly the sort of information that is very very useful to be posted on this board. If more of us would make posts like this it would go a long way in helping people navigate the ever changing immigration requirements. Thank you very kindly.

[norbra]

1 hour ago, likerdup1 said:

Thank you for providing this list. It is exactly the sort of information that is very very useful to be posted on this board. If more of us would make posts like this it would go a long way in helping people navigate the ever changing immigration requirements. Thank you very kindly.

I answered your question

Again who directed you to desk L1-35?

My last extensions were done by appointment and always done at appointment desk L1-32.

Edited December 24, 2023 by norbra

[likerdup1]

9 hours ago, norbra said:

I answered your question

Again who directed you to desk L1-35?

My last extensions were done by appointment and always done at appointment desk L1-32.

It looks as though, the new online appointment system (rolled out about 6 weeks ago) directs all retirement extension appointments to L1-35. I've made a few appointments, cancelled and rescheduled. It looks as though all online appointments for retirement extensions using this new system go to  L1-35 now. (the desk where I was denied). One could verify this by making an appointment as a test then cancelling. It can be done quite easily with the new system.

[likerdup1]

In the spirit of why this forum exists for here are my observations up to this day. Today I was given a 1 year permission extension to stay of my Non-O retirement visa which I obtained, mid October 2023 at Division 1 CW Bangkok.

 

This is for other expats who wish to DIY their immigration business.

I never use an agent and always do my immigration business in Thailand myself.

 

1) ALL online appointments for Non-O extensions go to desk L1-35 at Chang Wattana

2) The IO's at that section are strict in my experience last week where I was denied as previously mentioned in my OP.

3) I was asked to provide a print out of my eVisa which is how I first entered Thailand back in Sept. Had the PDF on my phone and printed it out at the copy shop downstairs.

4) Was asked to draw a map showing the location of my residence in Bangkok

 

Personally I would avoid doing business with the IO at L1-35 which is where all appointments go. That desk looks to be busy doing mostly appointments and is the ONLY desk that processes applications for online appointments.

 

Today I walked in and took a number early in the morning, around 8am. My number was called for the document check desk (27) and my docs were checked. My que ticket was taken and I was told I'd be seen at desk L1-32. Once called to 32, on reviewing my docs the IO asked that I draw a map of my residence location (rough map in relation to nearest main street). I also was asked to get a better copy of the Tabien Baan as it was a bit hazy, so I did that and returned. I entered Thailand on a 60 day tourist eVisa. I was also asked to print that out as it's to be included from NOW ON for any extensions done in the future on the most current Non-O. (went downstairs a 2nd time to print it out) and supplied a copy to the IO to include with my application set.

 

The IO was a polite woman and was very helpful to me. I am grateful that I was lucky enough to do business with her. I dressed well, spoke some Thai with her and kept my cool when asked to comply with her requirements. After a lot of stamping and signatures on her part she asked for the fee and I was given a receipt and asked to wait. I waited about a hour (pretty busy there after lunch) and was given my passport back with the 1 year extension stamp.

 

All in all it was about a 5 hour day at CW. But I was able to do my business without paying an agent and be tied to an agent for any future business.

 

I hope this helps other immigration DIY expats here.

yours, Likerdup1

Edited December 26, 2023 by likerdup1

[rwilem]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:22 AM, likerdup1 said:

It looks as though, the new online appointment system (rolled out about 6 weeks ago) directs all retirement extension appointments to L1-35. I've made a few appointments, cancelled and rescheduled. It looks as though all online appointments for retirement extensions using this new system go to  L1-35 now. (the desk where I was denied). One could verify this by making an appointment as a test then cancelling. It can be done quite easily with the new system.

Did my extension based on retirement a few weeks back, and a few weeks before that had made an appointment. The L1-35 desk is where the appointment notice directed me to appear. 

 

After the IO finished with the applicant who was at the desk, I was asked to go to that front L1 desk (27, is it?) for a 'document check'. OK, did that and returned to L1-35 and waited again while another applicant was being served.

 

Tip: May as well get the 'documents check' done first before you appear/hang out at the front of the L1-35 desk. 

[bamnutsak]

13 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Today I was given a 1 year permission extension to stay

 

So you were able to obtain a contract? Copy of the House Book?

 

 

IMO your analysis of the "desk" situation is flawed. Every extension gets reviewed by the same second-level supervisor, and then another third-level supervisor, so the initial IO is immaterial.

 

 

13 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Personally I would avoid doing business with the IO at L1-35 which is where all appointments go. That desk looks to be busy doing mostly appointments and is the ONLY desk that processes applications for online appointments.

 

Easily the worst advice ever - not utilizing the appointment option for fear of a 'desk', or particular IO. With an appointment and a complete set of documents, I'm normally done in 30 minutes. And with a 09:30 appointment, I've been serviced as early as 09:00.

 

On 12/25/2023 at 12:22 AM, likerdup1 said:

the new online appointment system (rolled out about 6 weeks ago)

 

I think the new online appointment system has be in place for much longer than six weeks.

 

 

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, bamnutsak said:

 

So you were able to obtain a contract? Copy of the House Book?

 

 

IMO your analysis of the "desk" situation is flawed. Every extension gets reviewed by the same second-level supervisor, and then another third-level supervisor, so the initial IO is immaterial.

 

 

 

Easily the worst advice ever - not utilizing the appointment option for fear of a 'desk', or particular IO. With an appointment and a complete set of documents, I'm normally done in 30 minutes. And with a 09:30 appointment, I've been serviced as early as 09:00.

 

 

I think the new online appointment system has be in place for much longer than six weeks.

 

 

 

How long has it been since you've been to CW to do an extension? Your description of the application review process is inaccurate. At CW it goes like this.

 

1) queue number is called and ALL and ANY type of extension applications go to Desk 27 first for a cursory review of the docs (signatures, copys clear etc) I know this since this first desk 27 MISSED a good 3 docs that were requested by the actual I/O who does the "official" review. In fact the first go around last week where I had no Tabien Baan, she let me through to the 2nd desk. First review of the docs at desk 27 is a simple cursory review. It is NOT an official review of the docs. If everything passes this first cursory look at your application Desk 27 IO takes your queue ticket and sends you to a particular desk. In my case desk 32 yesterday. Desk 27 is THE document check desk for all types of extension applications. It IS NOT an official review. It is a simple once over looking for missing signatures, unclear copies, some new docs that might be missed. (In most cases she was handing out this new "statement" document that everyone was filling out and signing) and perhaps a missing doc or two. IT IS NOT AN OFFICIAL REVIEW. By the way. This new statement document is brand new and not even available on the Immigration website yet.

 

2) Your queue number is called then a senior IO at one of the desks 31-37 does an official review of the application AFTER the cursory review. This IO thoroughly goes through the application making many multitudes of stamps on all the documentation and signs off on EVERTHING in the set. This IO will often ask for more documentation, ask questions etc etc. This IO also takes the fee and issues a receipt. confirming your application is approved.

 

3) A 3rd IO is given your completed application (which has already been approved) and stamps your passport. He/She may be the most senior and do a final quick review of the docs but do you know of anyone, who's reported an application kicked back by this IO? I highly doubt it. This IO does the actual Passport stamp. My opinion is this IO does a only a quick review of the previous I/O's work and does the stamping. In fact she is the one who handed me my passport yesterday where most of the time her trainees do it.

 

Regarding the treatment of applications by different IO's. How is that so hard to understand? Read through this thread carefully and you'll see I'm not the only one who, when faced with the IO at 35 had problems.

 

The new appointment system looks to have been rolled out about Nov 1. I know because I tried to make an appointment for my first Non-O application for Oct 15 and the old system kept giving a browser 404 code (I"m a systems engineer so look it up for yourself) until they updated the official Immigration website with the new URL. This was around Nov 1.

 

Why so aggressive there buddy? You don't trust me? Worst advice ever? LOL!

 

Calling my observations flawed when you have NOT been to CW in how many months? Things change fast my friend. Either that or you are just looking to ask questions by criticizing and looking for response. I don't mind. I'm here to help. Are you?

Edited December 27, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

10 hours ago, rwilem said:

Did my extension based on retirement a few weeks back, and a few weeks before that had made an appointment. The L1-35 desk is where the appointment notice directed me to appear. 

 

After the IO finished with the applicant who was at the desk, I was asked to go to that front L1 desk (27, is it?) for a 'document check'. OK, did that and returned to L1-35 and waited again while another applicant was being served.

 

Tip: May as well get the 'documents check' done first before you appear/hang out at the front of the L1-35 desk. 

This always happens when using the appointment system for extensions. All appointments go to desk L1-35 for the official application review. But first must go through cursory document check and THEN get sent to a particular desk. They have not yet figured out how to automatically send the appointments to go to the the "document check" desk first. I showed up for an appointment last week and was directed by one of the "helper gals" to desk 27 first then sent to L1-35 same as you.

 

ALL WALK-INS get a queue ticket and automatically are called to desk 27 first for a cursory "document check" and then sent to A PARTICULAR DESK for the official review.

Edited December 27, 2023 by likerdup1

[DrJack54]

10 hours ago, rwilem said:

Did my extension based on retirement a few weeks back, and a few weeks before that had made an appointment

Would be good if you posted exactly what docs you provided.

Some of the lists in this thread include various things that I have never provided.

In the OP case , seems was his first extension after obtaining non O from  a eVisa (tourist) 

Without TM47 perhaps subjected to added scrutiny re proof of address. 

 

[likerdup1]

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Would be good if you posted exactly what docs you provided.

Some of the lists in this thread include various things that I have never provided.

In the OP case , seems was his first extension after obtaining non O from  a eVisa (tourist) 

Without TM47 perhaps subjected to added scrutiny re proof of address. 

 

As I shared before. A TM47 is not needed for a first extension of a Non-O for purpose of retirement because a Non-O for purpose of retirment does not give permission to stay in excess of 90 days. Added "scrutiny" was absolutely not due to absence of a TM.47 because it is NOT required to submit one. On both of my visits to CW last week and yesterday I was never asked for one either.

 

Nobody, ever needs to submit a TM.47 when on a Non-O 90 days permission to stay for the purpose of retirement because it does not give MORE THAN 90 days permission to stay. Please reread this thread. You had already made a similar suggestion.

 

If I have some time I'll post a complete list of the docs I submitted.

Edited December 27, 2023 by likerdup1

[norbra]

Whilst the OP has provided a heap of information I still cannot grasp the process he described.

He had an appointment,who sent him to L1-35?

After then going to LI-27 he was sent to another desk?

Whilst things might have changed since my last couple of extensions where I went directly to LI-27 showed my appointment email,had docs checked and sent to LI-32,processed and paid, received passport from LI-33.

Must have been too simple.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

If I have some time I'll post a complete list of the docs I submitted.

I was asking @rwilem for the docs he provided.

I'm quite aware that TM47 cannot be provided for first extension.

In my 10 extensions at CW the TM47 has only been required in the last 2. 

Thinking this could be included now for address verification.

Perhaps some of your issues have been down to inadequate proof residence.

Folk have reported added scrutiny (Jomtien) re TM30.

Also note that you were unaware of requirement of hand drawn map of residence at CW. 

 

Looking forward to upcoming reports for extensions (retirement) to confirm if this "extra difficulty" using appointment hence L-35 is across the board. 

[likerdup1]

26 minutes ago, norbra said:

Whilst the OP has provided a heap of information I still cannot grasp the process he described.

He had an appointment,who sent him to L1-35?

After then going to LI-27 he was sent to another desk?

Whilst things might have changed since my last couple of extensions where I went directly to LI-27 showed my appointment email,had docs checked and sent to LI-32,processed and paid, received passport from LI-33.

Must have been too simple.

 

First visit to CW was for an appointment LAST TUESDAY. No queue number was needed. I was sent to desk 27 document check by one of the "helper" trainee galls and then sent to desk 35 for the official application review. My app was denied. I was denied because I only provided a TM.30 and was told I must have a 1 year lease.

 

Second visit to CW yesterday. I walked in and needed a queue number and got one. My queue number was called for desk 27. Documents checked and then sent to desk 32 for official check of my app and documents. (this is the short version of what happened, I actually needed to make two print outs of docs downstairs too and bring them back to the official IO at desk 32 / she was very helpful and patient with me) This is in stark contrast to the abrupt manner of the IO at desk 35. Application was approved at desk 32 and I received an extension of stay stamp yesterday.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by likerdup1

[it is what it is]

 

i;ve had no problems with a monthly contract.

[norbra]

10 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

 

First visit to CW was for an appointment LAST TUESDAY. No queue number was needed. I was sent to desk 27 document check by one of the "helper" trainee galls and then sent to desk 35 of the official review. My app was denied.

 

Second visit to CW yesterday. I walked in and needed a queue number and got one. My queue number was called for desk 27. Documents checked and then sent to desk 32 for official check of my app and documents. (this is the short version of what happened, I actually needed to make two print outs of docs downstairs too and bring them back to the official IO at desk 32 / she was very helpful and patient with me) This is in stark contrast to the abrupt manner of the IO at desk 35.

 

Your second visit went as one would expect as it is an easy process.

Glad you had a successful outcome.

[likerdup1]

4 minutes ago, norbra said:

Your second visit went as one would expect as it is an easy process.

Glad you had a successful outcome.

Yes, although there were additional things that were needed that I didn't anticipate and required two trips down stairs to the copy/print shop. As I said I needed a print out of my eVisa and also a clearer copy of the Tabien baan which was sent to me via LINE by the apartment manager.

 

[norbra]

1 minute ago, likerdup1 said:

Yes, although there were additional things that were needed that I didn't anticipate and required two trips down stairs to the copy/print shop. As I said I needed a print out of my eVisa and also a clearer copy of the Tabien baan which was sent to me via LINE by the apartment manager.

 

My last extension required that I need to show copies of 2 passbooks. Doc checker said not need a couple of pages,I followed her advice and removed them from my submission but she was wrong,IO printed the missing docs without question.