Mine and others' rights.

[dingdongrb]

Asking a public forum what the moral thing to do is........ hmmmmmmm

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[blackcab]

No, the person who gave the deposit is not entitled to their deposit back. All you have to do is make sure that the condo is available to rent to them on the day they agreed to move in. If you keep your part of the agreement and they do not keep theirs then their deposit is forfeit.

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

So the OP is potentially out of pocket.

Yes, who knows how much money the OP has lost due to this time waster. 

 

If you put a deposit down then renege, be prepared to lose your deposit. 

 

That's exactly what it says in the contract.

 

Oh, wait...

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, BangkokHank said:

The purpose of the deposit was to have the owner hold the condo for the person making the deposit, rather than renting it out to somebody else. The condo owner did his part. The person making the deposit did not uphold his part of the agreement, whether it was his fault or not. As such, the condo owner has every right to keep the money. He doesn't have to keep it, but he has the right to. If I were him, I would try to rent the condo out to someone else - and then keep the amount of the deposit that I had lost in the transaction with the original depositor. Under no circumstances should the condo owner lose money over the renter's inability to get a visa.

 

A totally VERBAL agreement.

 

Next?

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Its clear the OP has ethics from his posting. 

 

We don't know if the guy who was denied the visa is telling the truth, maybe he's just a time wasting scammer. 

 

 

A time-wasting scammer? This forum is chock-a-block with either scammers or those that call EVERYTHING in Thailand a scam because they didn't learn to tie their own shoelaces all those years ago.

 

Sheesh.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

No, the person who gave the deposit is not entitled to their deposit back. All you have to do is make sure that the condo is available to rent to them on the day they agreed to move in. If you keep your part of the agreement and they do not keep theirs then their deposit is forfeit.

 

But according to the contract.

 

Oh, wait...

[AlexRich]

If he signed a rental agreement then you are losing out on 12 month's rent. And as you are now faced with advertising the apartment for the rent you are entitled ... morally and legally ... to keep the deposit.

[Yellowtail]

Couple of days....

[JimTripper]

Deposit gets returned minus the days it takes you to re-rent the unit. Time starts from the day they canceled. Price used to deduct off days is the amount they agreed to rent it for. Waste of time doing things is not chargable, that's your choice.

Edited January 2 by JimTripper

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

If he signed a rental agreement then you are losing out on 12 month's rent. And as you are now faced with advertising the apartment for the rent you are entitled ... morally and legally ... to keep the deposit.

 

From the OP (my emphasis).

 

On 1/1/2024 at 10:11 AM, Jan1970 said:

... Now, he wants the deposit  back: here is no written contract and no agreement on both sides in case of my or his impediment to rent the property: ...

[Yellowtail]

Yeah, the owner is realistically out nothing, and the potential tenant gave him the money we assume in good faith. 

 

I see no legal obligation to return the money, but it was only a couple days. 

 

I would get the potential tenant a chance to substantiate their claim that the visa was denied refund the deposit after at the end of the first month the lease was supposed to run. 

 

I would not want to give a refund to someone that just found a better deal, but if the guy is telling the truth I would. 

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I would not want to give a refund to someone that just found a better deal, but if the guy is telling the truth I would. 

 

Then make sure that any agreement on a deposit is more than simply verbal; include this in the advertising such as "The security deposit is non-refundable but will be deducted from the invoice once the tenant takes up residence". That way, you don't need to worry about anyone's ulterior motives or waste your time asking them to prove something that is frankly nobody elses business.

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Then make sure that any agreement on a deposit is more than simply verbal; include this in the advertising such as "The security deposit is non-refundable but will be deducted from the invoice once the tenant takes up residence". That way, you don't need to worry about anyone's ulterior motives or waste your time asking them to prove something that is frankly nobody elses business.

How would a written agreement help the OP? 

[CanadaSam]

Amazing how from one post, we can easily determine the character of people on this forum!

 

The guy owns the condo so he is not poor, and the people telling him to keep the tourist's few thousand deposit would be people I would like to be very far away from.

[AlexRich]

10 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

Amazing how from one post, we can easily determine the character of people on this forum!

 

The guy owns the condo so he is not poor, and the people telling him to keep the tourist's few thousand deposit would be people I would like to be very far away from.

 

I don't agree. If you gave over a deposit you are implicitly committing that you are renting the property for an agreed period. If you don't go through with that commitment you avoid having to pay the full length off the rental, but you forfeit the deposit. The landlord lost the option of renting to other interested parties, so the deposit compensates him for the inconvenience. Whether he owns the apartment outright or not is irrelevant.  

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Then make sure that any agreement on a deposit is more than simply verbal; include this in the advertising such as "The security deposit is non-refundable but will be deducted from the invoice once the tenant takes up residence". That way, you don't need to worry about anyone's ulterior motives or waste your time asking them to prove something that is frankly nobody elses business.

How would a written agreement help the OP? 

 

 

Seriously?

 

The prospective tenant agrees to the terms as stated in the advert and sends the landlord the refundable security deposit.

The prospective tenant's circumstances change for whatever reason and cannot take up the occupancy.

Under the agreed terms, the landlord thus retains the security deposit and doesn't need to wring his hands in moral despair on an anonymous internet forum.

 

Now maybe, just maybe, this inclusion of a nominally refundable security deposit will put off some potential tenants. Maybe, just maybe, those are the sort of tenants that should be avoided anyway.

 

 

[Olmate]

36 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

 

Seriously?

 

The prospective tenant agrees to the terms as stated in the advert and sends the landlord the refundable security deposit.

The prospective tenant's circumstances change for whatever reason and cannot take up the occupancy.

Under the agreed terms, the landlord thus retains the security deposit and doesn't need to wring his hands in moral despair on an anonymous internet forum.

 

Now maybe, just maybe, this inclusion of a nominally refundable security deposit will put off some potential tenants. Maybe, just maybe, those are the sort of tenants that should be avoided anyway.

 

 

And likewise if the  landlord is so hungry for a holding deposit rather than showing goodwill,  he should beavoided too! 

[Skipalongcassidy]

I'm no longer surprised to see so many posters that have no idea what a business transaction means as far as responsibility by the parties involved... they really believe that they have no commitment to their promise... sad for them to live in their world.

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

If you gave over a deposit you are implicitly committing that you are renting the property for an agreed period.

 

Pull the other one.

 

I have twice paid deposits for new cars ahead of delivery at two different dealerships. I have been refunded when I managed to get the vehicles faster from another dealership.

 

One of the dealerships was when I was living in the US.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

 

Seriously?

 

The prospective tenant agrees to the terms as stated in the advert and sends the landlord the refundable security deposit.

The prospective tenant's circumstances change for whatever reason and cannot take up the occupancy.

Under the agreed terms, the landlord thus retains the security deposit and doesn't need to wring his hands in moral despair on an anonymous internet forum.

 

Now maybe, just maybe, this inclusion of a nominally refundable security deposit will put off some potential tenants. Maybe, just maybe, those are the sort of tenants that should be avoided anyway.

 

 

Again, how would a written agreement help the OP? 

[AlexRich]

16 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Pull the other one.

 

I have twice paid deposits for new cars ahead of delivery at two different dealerships. I have been refunded when I managed to get the vehicles faster from another dealership.

 

One of the dealerships was when I was living in the US.

 

 

If a deposit is meaningless then why not pay it only when you take possession of the property? Why pay one at all before entering the property? 

 

The reason is that the deposit secures the property and gives the landlord an incentive not to rent to anyone who comes after you. Unfortunately, if you don't proceed with what you have agreed you risk losing it.