The dangers of AA fundamentalism

[impulse]

15 minutes ago, Angus55 said:

It is non existent in groups overseas but in the USA it can be  a problem. More just because there are fundamentalist Christians at the meetings and they would try and convert anyone irrespective of the location / situation anyway.

 

In 35+ years and thousands of meetings, mostly in the Bible Belt, I've never felt it.  People often refer to Jesus, but that's just what they call the God of their understanding.  I don't take it as a trigger of any kind.  Nor have I ever been proselytized toward any religion.

 

I've run into just as many agnostics and atheists that refer to Good Orderly Direction.  Which is a reference to the discipline of doing the steps and not picking up the first drink.  That's their religion, their GOD...   Discipline and honesty and doing the next right thing.

 

We all get along fine, and just love each other, even when we disagree.  But I can see problems for people who may be triggered by a reference to Jesus.  I don't have a solution for them, other than to keep coming back if you really wanna stay stopped.

 

[Andy F]

They exist in England too. I was in a cult like splinter group in London called

 

"The vision for you"

 

https://aaforagnostics.com/?s=Cult

 

Also, check out AAcultwatch, a UK website. It's very eye opening 

 

 

[Angus55]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

In 35+ years and thousands of meetings, mostly in the Bible Belt, I've never felt it.  People often refer to Jesus, but that's just what they call the God of their understanding.  I don't take it as a trigger of any kind.  Nor have I ever been proselytized toward any religion.

 

I've run into just as many agnostics and atheists that refer to Good Orderly Direction.  Which is a reference to the discipline of doing the steps and not picking up the first drink.  That's their religion, their GOD...   Discipline and honesty and doing the next right thing.

 

We all get along fine, and just love each other, even when we disagree.  But I can see problems for people who may be triggered by a reference to Jesus.  I don't have a solution for them, other than to keep coming back if you really wanna stay stopped.

 

Thats good to hear. Keeping off the stuff is the main thing. Jesus is just another name for God anyway. 

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, Angus55 said:

It is non existent in groups overseas but in the USA it can be  a problem. More just because there are fundamentalist Christians at the meetings and they would try and convert anyone irrespective of the location / situation anyway.

I've been to meetings all over the US and I think you are making this up.

[Angus55]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I've been to meetings all over the US and I think you are making this up.

As I said , it can be a problem in the USA....this is obvious considering the number of fundamentalist Christians in states like Kansas and the southern states.. Im guessing you were at meetings in LA or NYC .

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, Angus55 said:

As I said , it can be a problem in the USA....this is obvious considering the number of fundamentalist Christians in states like Kansas and the southern states.. Im guessing you were at meetings in LA or NYC .

As I said, I've been to meetings all over the US and I think you are making this up.

[HalAndLois]

Is this a parody of leftism gone mad?  Or are you really trying to malign a group that has helped millions of people quit drinking and live a happier and more productive life?  AA tries to build up, and you try to destroy.  

[mogandave]

23 minutes ago, HalAndLois said:

Is this a parody of leftism gone mad?  Or are you really trying to malign a group that has helped millions of people quit drinking and live a happier and more productive life?  AA tries to build up, and you try to destroy.  

Unfortunately, the left has largely taken over AA the way they’ve taken over everything else.

[Andy F]

If you read my book, you would see that it is the religious fundamentalists in AA that are destroying AA. They are the ones that have gone mad interpreting the AA program to suit their extreme interpretation of the program. Although in the minority, sadly, this type of fundamentalism has become a cancer on the AA landscape

 

Vulnerable newcomers are dying after getting involved in their cult like power driven agendas.

 

These type of abuses have to be stopped in AA!

 

https://aaforagnostics.com/

 

Check out my book."You can't be a real alcoholic if you don't believe in God" It's free.

 

Andy F 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27 by Andy F

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Andy F said:

If you read my book, you would see that it is the religious fundamentalists in AA that are destroying AA. They are the ones that have gone mad interpreting the AA program to suit their extreme interpretation of the program. Although in the minority, sadly, this type of fundamentalism has become a cancer on the AA landscape

 

Vulnerable newcomers are dying after getting involved in their cult like power driven agendas.

 

These type of abuses have to be stopped in AA!

 

https://aaforagnostics.com/

 

Check out my book."You can't be a real alcoholic if you don't believe in God" It's free.

 

Andy F 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the left, that are largely responsible for destroying everything that the religious built, always blame the religious for the destruction. 

 

 

[Andy F]

Nothing wrong with religious AA members mate. It's the hardcore religious fundamentalists that have become the cancer in AA

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, Andy F said:

Nothing wrong with religious AA members mate. It's the hardcore religious fundamentalists that have become the cancer in AA

By "hardcore religious fundamentalists" you mean people that actually practice their faith, yes? 

[Andy F]

Your sarcasm is a true measure of your ignorance! 

 

Ordinary religious observance and faith are entirely different from hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA

 

One is healthy, the other sick. Very sick in fact!

[HalAndLois]

Quote

Your sarcasm is a true measure of your ignorance! 

Classless comment.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, Andy F said:

Your sarcasm is a true measure of your ignorance! 

 

Ordinary religious observance and faith are entirely different from hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA

 

One is healthy, the other sick. Very sick in fact!

Why don't you explain the difference for us, and how it is ruining AA? 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, HalAndLois said:

Classless comment.

It's what the left always resorts to. 

[Andy F]

^{You can read all about AA fundamentalism here}

 

^{http://aacultwatch.blogspot.com/}

 

^{I very much doubt that you will take the time to read about the dangers of fundamentalism because it's almost impossible to convince a fundamentalism that he is wrong in going down the road of any type of extremism.} 

 

^{It's got nothing to do with genuine spirituality.} 

 

[Yellowtail]

21 minutes ago, Andy F said:

^{You can read all about AA fundamentalism here}

 

^{http://aacultwatch.blogspot.com/}

 

^{I very much doubt that you will take the time to read about the dangers of fundamentalism because it's almost impossible to convince a fundamentalism that he is wrong in going down the road of any type of extremism.}

 

^{It's got nothing to do with genuine spirituality.} 

 

 

So, you can't explain the difference, yet you called me ignorant. Typical leftist. 

 

No doubt only leftist atheists can be truly spiritual, yes? 

 

 

[Andy F]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you can't explain the difference, yet you called me ignorant. Typical leftist. 

 

No doubt only leftist atheists can be truly spiritual, yes? 

 

You call atheists,agnostics and freethinkers leftists as if there were some kind of political division in AA. There aren't. There are only alcoholics who believe in God and those that either don't or are still seeking.

 

For people who purport to have faith in a loving God, all I am hearing is sarcasm, and judgement. If I ever do convert and become a Christian, remind me to avoid whatever church you attend.

 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Andy F said:

You call atheists,agnostics and freethinkers leftists as if there were some kind of political division in AA. There aren't. There are only alcoholics who believe in God and those that either don't or are still seeking.

 

For people who purport to have faith in a loving God, all I am hearing is sarcasm, and judgement. If I ever do convert and become a Christian, remind me to avoid whatever church you attend.

 

 

I thought you were going to explain how "Ordinary religious observance and faith are entirely different from hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA", what happened" 

 

Oh, that's right, you don't know, so you have to resort to name-calling. 

 

And I never called atheists, agnostics and freethinkers leftists, nor did I claim that there was some kind of political division in AA. That's just something you made up.

 

If I ever do become an atheist, remind to not be the kind that condescends to everyone they disagree with and calls them names. 

 

[mogandave]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:33 PM, HalAndLois said:

Classless comment.

“There’s no class like low class.”

[StandardIssue]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:32 AM, Andy F said:

Your sarcasm is a true measure of your ignorance! 

 

Ordinary religious observance and faith are entirely different from hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA

 

One is healthy, the other sick. Very sick in fact!

If this so called Hardcore Religious Fundamentalism in AA  isn't one of the best examples of what hyperbole is I don't know what is. "Hardcore Religious Fundamentalism" in AA?  If there is anything of the sort going on it has been a few isolated cases in the millions of daily meetings of AA worldwide. I challenge anyone claiming this is actually a "thing" to give documented proof.

 

If you go to enough AA meetings you will hear all kinds of crazy things by the wide variety of people attending AA meetings. You get the full spectrum of ideologies, political views etc. seeping in. Fortunately not frequently. This is par for the course. AA is full of sick alcoholics, along with a lot of recovered alcoholics who are well and give good solid help.

 

Fortunately for the most part in my 31 years attending meetings most of the "fruit loops with agendas" are easily recognized and most people are smart enough to figure out what's right and whats wrong. This "Hardcore religious fundamentalism in AA" plainly is a non issue invented for what seems to be the effort of a few so called "secular AA's to twist plain good old fashioned AA practiced as it has been since 1939 to suit their prejudice toward AA's program of seeking a Higher Power, God, Power Greater to get recovery from alcoholism.

 

The 12 step program of AA works. What goes on in the meetings of AA has very little to do with practice of the 12 steps which are the directions to get recovery from alcoholism. The meetings of AA do not give recovery from alcoholism. Practice of the 12 steps does. All this business of religious fundamentalism is to do with the fellowship and very little to do with the actual 12 step program.

 

I think the OP may have the impression that most people can't figure out for themselves what's right and wrong in meetings. Including newcommers. Most people have enough sense to be able to figure out what sounds right and what sounds wrong especially if they take time to visit the AA website and read some of the literature given out in meetings.

 

One of the best things about AA is the we have 2 fundamental basic text books that outline the AA program. What is in those books fully illustrates the program.

 

The 12 step program of AA works. It does not need to be interpreted, changed or revised. It is basically written in stone in two books.

 

The Book "Alcoholics Anonymous"

And the book "The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions"

 

Anything that is said in an AA meeting that doesn't line up with what is in those books is NOT AA and if anyone is curious enough to study the literature they can figure out what is right and what is wrong about what's said in AA meetings.

Edited June 22 by StandardIssue

[StandardIssue]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:03 AM, Andy F said:

Nothing wrong with religious AA members mate. It's the hardcore religious fundamentalists that have become the cancer in AA

What about those militant atheists and agnostics? Someone told me they are the herpes in AA meetings. Is that true?

And what about those guys who carry those blue books with them into AA meetings? Some of them even read whats in those books in meetings!! What do we call them?

Edited June 22 by StandardIssue

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

What about those militant atheists and agnostics? Someone told me they are the herpes in AA meetings. Is that true?

And what about those guys who carry those blue books with them into AA meetings? Some of them even read whats in those books in meetings!! What do we call them?

We call them Andy F. 

[StandardIssue]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:53 PM, mogandave said:

Unfortunately, the left has largely taken over AA the way they’ve taken over everything else.

 

I've been to thousands of AA meetings in my 31 years of recovery from alcoholism and politics rarely if ever gets mentioned in AA. If it does good meeting leaders politely remind people to not discuss politics.

 

Fortunately there are quite a number of spiritually minded people who understand that spirituality has a lot to do with love, tolerance, patience, acceptance, charity and selflessness. Acceptance and tolerance of other peoples views is one of many fundamental spiritual principles found through practice of AA's 12 step program.

 

AA has NO political agenda whatsoever. It's only purpose is to help people suffering from alcoholism sober up and get recovery from alcoholism.

Edited June 22 by StandardIssue

[mogandave]

On 6/22/2024 at 8:01 PM, StandardIssue said:

 

I've been to thousands of AA meetings in my 31 years of recovery from alcoholism and politics rarely if ever gets mentioned in AA. If it does good meeting leaders politely remind people to not discuss politics.

 

Fortunately there are quite a number of spiritually minded people who understand that spirituality has a lot to do with love, tolerance, patience, acceptance, charity and selflessness. Acceptance and tolerance of other peoples views is one of many fundamental spiritual principles found through practice of AA's 12 step program.

 

AA has NO political agenda whatsoever. It's only purpose is to help people suffering from alcoholism sober up and get recovery from alcoholism.

I was talking about the leadership, not the meetings.

[StandardIssue]

12 hours ago, mogandave said:

I was talking about the leadership, not the meetings.

I would advise you to visit the official AA website https://aa.org.

AA has no leadership. You obviously do not know much about AA. AA has no leaders in any capacity whatsoever. Nobody dictates anything or forces anybody to do anything. Nobody has any control over anybody else in AA. There are only a loose set of traditions that most groups follow and even those are not always closely followed. There are also two basic text books that outline the 12 step program of recovery. One was written in 1939 and one in the 1950's. The program portion of these books has not been changed since their publication.

 

To ad something of value to this thread I would first educate yourself about AA and attend a few open meetings. Unless you are the sort of person who just likes to bomb threads with falsehoods and wait to get corrected I would ask you to respectfully refrain from making such narrow minded conclusions.

Edited June 25 by StandardIssue

[mogandave]

7 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

I would advise you to visit the official AA website https://aa.org.

AA has no leadership. You obviously do not know much about AA. AA has no leaders in any capacity whatsoever. Nobody dictates anything or forces anybody to do anything. Nobody has any control over anybody else in AA. There are only a loose set of traditions that most groups follow and even those are not always closely followed. There are also two basic text books that outline the 12 step program of recovery. One was written in 1939 and one in the 1950's. The program portion of these books has not been changed since their publication.

 

To ad something of value to this thread I would first educate yourself about AA and attend a few open meetings. Unless you are the sort of person who just likes to bomb threads with falsehoods and wait to get corrected.

The General Service Board. 

 

 

[StandardIssue]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

The General Service Board. 

 

 

What about it?

[mogandave]

2 minutes ago, StandardIssue said:

What about it?

That was what I meant when I said leadership. Sorry for the confusion.