Excess Death Trends Debate

[johng]

Video

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/664b688c-cf82-4280-8d3d-8a2169c78d11

 

Transcript

https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/debate/2024-01-16/commons/westminster-hall/excess-death-trends

[KhunLA]

@TallGuyJohninBKK

Pay attention @ 9:36 onward:

 

"Yesterday, consultant cardiologist Dr Aseem Malhotra, who is a world-leading expert in the causes of heart disease, told TNT Radio that even though cardiovascular disease is multifactorial, top of the list in the hierarchy of causes behind excess cardiac-related deaths has to be the experimental covid mRNA vaccine until proven otherwise. This is not speculative.

Dr Malhotra’s point is not speculative but based on the highest level of data that combines plausible biological mechanism, randomised control trials, high-quality observational data, pharmacovigilance data, autopsy data and clinical data. Those who choose not to acknowledge these cold, hard facts are either unaware of the evidence, wilfully blind or lacking in conscience."

[thaicurious]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

Aseem Malhotra is a controversial British cardiologist,[1] health campaigner,[2] author, and, contrary to public health consensus, an anti-mRNA vaccine activist.[3] He contends that people should ... reduce their use of prescription drugs...

 

... His views on diet and health have been criticized by the British Heart Foundation as "misleading and wrong", and his public questioning of the need ever to use statins has been condemned as a danger to public health ...

 

...Despite initially campaigning for the COVID vaccine,[12] he later campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines[13] contrary to the available evidence..."

 

Yikes!

[retarius]

4 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

Aseem Malhotra is a controversial British cardiologist,[1] health campaigner,[2] author, and, contrary to public health consensus, an anti-mRNA vaccine activist.[3] He contends that people should ... reduce their use of prescription drugs...

 

... His views on diet and health have been criticized by the British Heart Foundation as "misleading and wrong", and his public questioning of the need ever to use statins has been condemned as a danger to public health ...

 

...Despite initially campaigning for the COVID vaccine,[12] he later campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines[13] contrary to the available evidence..."

 

Yikes!

Anyone who challenges the received wisdom of the day is considered controversial. No one will meet the guy in debate because he has actually studied the data and knows the results. 

[jaywalker2]

This has already been debunked numerous times. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N3490M3/

 

It's useless to debate these things anymore. You either believe that the entire mainstream medical establishment and global health authorities in all major countries are lying or that these rogue doctors making outlandish (and unprovable) claims are the only the only ones telling the truth.

 

Your choice.

 

[johng]

Just now, jaywalker2 said:

This has already been debunked numerous times. 

 

Then what is causing the excess death ??

[johng]

5 minutes ago, retarius said:

Anyone who challenges the received wisdom of the day is considered controversial

Galileo for example 

According to Wikipedia

tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy",

and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

[jaywalker2]

Read the article in the link.

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

Anyone who challenges the received wisdom of the day is considered controversial. No one will meet the guy in debate because he has actually studied the data and knows the results. 

Untrue. Read his twitter feed. It's full of invective.  His father died from a heart attack and he blames the vaccine. That's what has triggered him. As I said, there are so many studies that have found the vaccines to be safe and effective (including the Cochrane Review). The risk from myocarditis and pericarditis is well established. It is rare and mainly limited to young men, so it can easily be avoided. Do you believe the studies or this guy?

 

[DavisH]

10 minutes ago, johng said:

 

Then what is causing the excess death ??

The pandemic. Come back and tell me how many excess deaths following the 1918 pandemic. 

[jaywalker2]

1 minute ago, johng said:

Galileo for example 

According to Wikipedia

tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy",

and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

We are not living in medieval Europe under the control of the Catholic Church. This doctor has a twitter acount, a YouTube account, a Rumble account.  He's been on TV and interviewed numerou times by online media.  He has right-wing politicians in his corner. He's making a career or being anti-vax.

 

He isn't Galileo.

[johng]

The pandemic  is still ongoing have you notified the WHO ?

you tell me how many excess deaths after 1918 ??  I don't know.

[johng]

1 minute ago, jaywalker2 said:

We are not living in medieval Europe under the control of the Catholic Church

Those in control are different  but they try to achieve the same goal.

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, thaicurious said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

Aseem Malhotra is a controversial British cardiologist,[1] health campaigner,[2] author, and, contrary to public health consensus, an anti-mRNA vaccine activist.[3] He contends that people should ... reduce their use of prescription drugs...

 

... His views on diet and health have been criticized by the British Heart Foundation as "misleading and wrong", and his public questioning of the need ever to use statins has been condemned as a danger to public health ...

 

...Despite initially campaigning for the COVID vaccine,[12] he later campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines[13] contrary to the available evidence..."

 

Yikes!

Before, no major problems, until speaking out against the MSM spin of covid vaccines.

 

Paraphrased from  above wiki link:

".. was listed as one of The Sunday Times 500 most influential people in 2016, and was twice recognized as one of the top fifty black and minority ethnic community member pioneers in the UK's National Health Service by the Health Service Journal

 

...  He held specialist registrar positions at St James's University Hospital in Leeds and Blackpool Victoria Hospital.

 

Malhotra has held cardiology posts with the UK National Health Service as a cardiology specialist registrar at Harefield Hospital, at the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead and as an Honorary Consultant Cardiologist at Frimley Park Hospital. He is a former Consultant Clinical Associate to the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges and is a visiting professor at Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health, Salvador, Brazil. In 2015 he was appointed as a trustee of the King's Fund and was reappointed for a further three years in 2018.

 

In addition to his work as a cardiologist, he has been described as a "highly regarded public health campaigner" and an anti-obesity expert who is "passionate about tackling the companies and policies responsible for creating ... an obesogenic environment".

 

... In 2013 he was recognized in the inaugural list of the top 50 BME Pioneers in the NHS Health Service Journal, for his research on sugar rich diets and obesity and cardio-vascular disease and for his public health campaigns, including profit-making of big corporations at the expense of public health, unhealthy hospital meals and sale of junk food in hospitals [8] The judges commented that "Yes. He challenges people". In 2014 he was recognized for a second year running in the Health Services Journal top 50 BME Pioneers: described by the judges as "An upcoming star", the entry recognized that he had ignited a debate about over-investigation, over-diagnosis and overmedication and brought media attention to the BMJ's "Too much medicine" campaign.

 

... At the end of 2013, Malhotra won the accolade of being named a "Food Hero" for the Children's Food Campaign for his campaigning against junk food being marketed to children and sugar filled vending machines in hospitals"

 

After you speak out against mRNA vaccines ...

 

... "In 2021, Malhotra was appointed chair of the scientific advisory committee[30][25] of the small UK charity The Public Health Collaboration. On 20 Feb 2023, the Public Health Collaboration announced that Malhotra was no longer part of the organisation.

 

In January 2023, a group of doctors, including some General Practitioners, called on the UK General Medical Council to investigate Aseem Malhotra’s fitness to practice due to what they claim is his ‘high-profile promotion of misinformation about Covid-19 mRNA vaccines’. On 2 June 2023, the doctors took the first formal step in legal proceedings against the GMC by sending them the formal pre-action protocol letter. This stated 'we are bringing this legal action because we believe that the GMC, as the official regulator of doctors’ professional standards, has a duty to act in this case."

 

Take note, there never seems to be a follow up after the out spoken are discredit in the pubic domain.  I've seen this over & over, along with the purging of so much info on the internet.

 

Many receiving accolades, awards ... until speaking out against the mRNA vaccines.   Then they are 'under investigation' .... but never the results of the investigation reported.

 

hmm ... go figure

 

 

[fondue zoo]

22 minutes ago, johng said:

 

Then what is causing the excess death ??

 

Death

[Will B Good]

It is certainly convincing when one reads his background......but I am also reminded of India's most preeminent nuclear physicist who threw up his whole career and future to prove a little boy born into poverty was the reincarnation of Nehru.....

 

hmm.....go figure.

[Will B Good]

Just now, fondue zoo said:

 

Death

It can be fatal

[thaicurious]

1 hour ago, positivevibes said:

 

 

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adn1077

"Acute infections with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) cause a respiratory illness that can be associated with systemic immune cell activation and inflammation, widespread multiorgan dysfunction, and thrombosis...

 

Patients with Long Covid display signs of immune dysfunction and exhaustion (1), persistent immune cell activation (3), and autoimmune antibody production (1), which are also pathological features of acute COVID-19..."

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/01/240118150800.htm

"In patients with Long Covid, the complement system (aka the innate immune system) no longer returns to its basal state, but remains activated and, thus, also damages healthy body cells...

 

Continued activation of complement system damages tissue and blood cells...

 

More than 6,500 proteins in the blood of the study participants were analyzed both during the acute infection and six months later.

"The analyses of which proteins were altered in Long Covid confirmed the excessive activity of the complement system. Patients with active Long Covid disease also had elevated blood levels indicating damage to various body cells, including red blood cells, platelets and blood vessels,""

 

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronavirus/news/2023-12-28-covid-reinfections-increases-long-covid-risk

"The study shows that the more reinfection cycles a patient endures, the more the disease alters our immune system. Over time, it obliterates the T-cells responsible for helping our body remember how to fight the virus. The virus seems to thrive on repetition, exploiting our weakened defences with each encounter and increasing the risk of long-term organ system damage. This is true even for low-risk groups such as the vaccinated, younger people or children."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

This has already been debunked numerous times. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N3490M3/

 

It's useless to debate these things anymore. You either believe that the entire mainstream medical establishment and global health authorities in all major countries are lying or that these rogue doctors making outlandish (and unprovable) claims are the only the only ones telling the truth.

 

 

Malhotra has been proven wrong so many times regarding his claims about COVID vaccines it's hard to keep track:

UK cardiologist misleads on Covid-19 vaccine safety

A cardiologist from the United Kingdom says Covid-19 vaccines should be suspended because they pose a greater threat than the virus itself. This is false; experts say his research misleads on the risks of vaccination by cherry-picking evidence and relying on flawed studies, and public health authorities agree the benefits of the shots outweigh the risks.

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.32L483D

 

Article by cardiologist Aseem Malhotra made unsupported claims about the benefits and risks of COVID-19 vaccination

Inadequate support: Malhotra’s claim that COVID-19 vaccines might do more harm than good is based on anecdotal evidence and low-quality studies—some of them disputed—that are insufficient to support his claim.
Cherry-picking: The article cited mainly studies suggesting a negative effect of COVID-19 vaccines, but didn’t acknowledge the wider body of evidence showing that the vaccines are safe and effective.

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/article-by-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-made-unsupported-claims-about-benefits-risks-covid-19-vaccination/

 

 

COVID-19 Vaccine Benefits Outweigh Small Risks, Contrary to Flawed Claim From U.K. Cardiologist

Dozens of studies support the use of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, which have a good safety profile and work well in preventing severe disease and death. Yet, citing a single, flawed paper, a British cardiologist known for peddling misinformation has misleadingly argued that the shots are harmful and “should never have been approved.”

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/scicheck-covid-19-vaccine-benefits-outweigh-small-risks-contrary-to-flawed-claim-from-u-k-cardiologist/

 

etc etc etc.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As for the anti-vaxers claims about a connection to so-called excess deaths, that's also been repeatedly debunked and proven false.

 

No Evidence Excess Deaths Linked to Vaccines, Contrary to Claims Online

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/scicheck-no-evidence-excess-deaths-linked-to-vaccines-contrary-to-claims-online/

 

COVID-19 vaccines aren’t responsible for the excess mortality of 2022

Unsurprisingly, reports of excess mortality well into 2022 became fodder for claims by vaccine-skeptic groups that mass vaccination against COVID-19 was responsible for this increase in deaths (see here and here for examples of such social media posts). An article by the website The Exposé, published at the end of November 2022, claimed that “at least 118k children and young adults have ‘died suddenly’ in the USA” and that this was “most likely due to the Covid-19 injections”.

This is a variation of the recurring false allegations that COVID-19 vaccines are unsafe and deadly that Health Feedback debunked on multiple occasions (see here, here, and here). As we’ll show below, the claims linking vaccination to excess mortality are baseless.

 

https://healthfeedback.org/what-can-explain-the-excess-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-europe-in-2022/

 

No evidence COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are significant contributing factor to UK’s 30,000 excess cardiovascular deaths

Millions of people have viewed a BBC News interview with a British cardiologist who used the broadcast to spread misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines.

...

The BHF spokesperson also rejected the claim that mRNA vaccines, which were rolled out in England in December 2020 (here), had caused the excess number of deaths, writing in an email that the benefits of vaccination “far outweigh the very small risk of rare side effects like myocarditis or pericarditis for the vast majority of people, especially as people get older”.

 

Reuters has addressed similar claims linking COVID-19 vaccines with excess mortality (here, here and here), cardiac arrests (here, here and here), and other heart issues.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths/fact-check-no-evidence-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-significant-contributing-factor-to-uks-30000-excess-cardiovascular-deaths-idUSL1N3490M3/

 

Lots more of the same from various reputable sources... But the above links are a good sampling showing the nonsense of the claims.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

@TallGuyJohninBKK

Pay attention @ 9:36 onward:

 

Good old Andrew Bridgen.... one of the familar COVID vaccine misinformation voices in Parliament:

 

Andrew Bridgen's vaccine debate claims fact checked

Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen made a number of claims about the safety and efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines during a ’Vaccines: Potential Harms’ adjournment debate he raised in the House of Commons on 13 December. 

 

Some of these claims were missing important context, so we’ve fact checked four of them in detail.

 

We have previously fact checked Mr Bridgen’s claims about Covid-19 vaccines twice in recent weeks—once when he made an inaccurate claim at Prime Minister’s Questions about vaccines during pregnancy and breastfeeding, and separately during a larger debate on Covid-19 vaccines. 

 

https://fullfact.org/health/andrew-bridgen-vaccine-safety-debate/

 

MPs' vaccine debate fact checked

Adverse events aren’t the same as confirmed ‘vaccine injuries’

Mr Bridgen claimed: “A study published in The Journal of the American Medical Association, included 7,806 children aged five or younger who were followed for an average of 91.4 days after their first Pfizer vaccination. The study showed that one in 500 children under five years of age who received a Pfizer mRNA—messenger ribonucleic acid—covid vaccine were hospitalised with a vaccine injury, and one in 200 had symptoms ongoing for weeks or months afterwards.”

 

It’s misleading to call these ‘vaccine injuries’. The study in question was looking at events that occurred after vaccination, but were not necessarily related to or caused by the vaccine. 

.....

Pfizer did say they hadn’t tested transmission

Later, Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen said: “Surely the hon. Gentleman is well aware of the much-publicised interview of a Pfizer representative by a committee of the European Parliament only a couple of weeks ago, when they admitted that they had done no testing whatever to see whether the vaccination prevented transmission of the virus.”

 

Mr Bridgen’s comment implied that Pfizer had originally claimed its Covid-19 vaccine stopped transmission.

Pfizer was always clear that it did not test whether the vaccines reduced the risk of transmission among already infected individuals. In other words, it didn’t test whether an infected person was more or less likely to spread the disease if they were vaccinated.

 

https://fullfact.org/health/vaccine-safety-westminster-debate/

 

And once again, there are other similar instances where other of his public comments on the vaccines have been proven wrong.

 

[johng]

2 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

He's making a career or being anti-vax.

Don't you think he would have a much more lucrative career as a cardiologist ? 

instead he has gone out on a limb to warn people about what he sees could be major problem.

 

As for the "fact checkers"  I take what they say with a huge bag of salt and ask who is it that checks the fact checkers and maybe more importantly who is funding these "fact checkers"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, johng said:

As for the "fact checkers"  I take what they say with a huge bag of salt and ask who is it that checks the fact checkers and maybe more importantly who is funding these "fact checkers"

 

Then you've got a lot of checking to do because, as listed in the various fact checks above....

 

Reuters, Agence France-Presse (AFP), Healthfeedback.org and factcheck.org -- and the various experts they consult with and the facts they cite -- all  say Malhotra is just WRONG!

 

He's simply one of a small number of prominent anti-vax outcasts who has repeatedly been shown to be peddling misinformation.

 

[johng]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Then you've got a lot of checking to do because, as listed in the various fact checks above..

Are you suggesting  that I "do my own research"   isn't that frowned upon these days ?

won't I risk being called an anti vax, anti science,right wing misinformation peddler ?

 

obviously I can't compete with the "fact checkers" and AI chatbots who's sole purpose is to defend the narrative and "debunk" anyone who goes against it.

 

What about the disturbing ongoing worldwide excess mortality rate..is there an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, johng said:

 

What about the disturbing ongoing worldwide excess mortality rate..is there an elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about ?

 

 

Already addressed and answered above. Lots of people are talking about it, just not spreading false conspiracy theories about it. Plenty of elaboration in the long article below of the various factors contributing to the excess deaths issue:

 

What can explain the excess mortality in the U.S. and Europe in 2022?

https://healthfeedback.org/what-can-explain-the-excess-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-europe-in-2022/

 

including...

COVID-19 vaccines aren’t responsible for the excess mortality of 2022

Unsurprisingly, reports of excess mortality well into 2022 became fodder for claims by vaccine-skeptic groups that mass vaccination against COVID-19 was responsible for this increase in deaths (see here and here for examples of such social media posts). An article by the website The Exposé, published at the end of November 2022, claimed that “at least 118k children and young adults have ‘died suddenly’ in the USA” and that this was “most likely due to the Covid-19 injections”.

 

This is a variation of the recurring false allegations that COVID-19 vaccines are unsafe and deadly that Health Feedback debunked on multiple occasions (see here, here, and here). As we’ll show below, the claims linking vaccination to excess mortality are baseless. [emphasis added]