As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

"Netanyahu says..." I think Netanyahu and IDF classify any Palestinian male over 15 that they kill or capture as "Hamas." 

 

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of the world, what you “think” is confined to your small, insular, pro Hamas kingdom of the blind.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

So, now, I think we're back to the structure of a solution I proposed weeks ago - Hamas could agree to a staged release of the hostages based on reciprocal stages involving a ceasefire and then talks on a two-state solution by Israel. 

 

Why are you continually supporting some kind of, in fact, any kind of, benefit, for Hamas, as a reward for taking innocent civilians hostage over 4 months ago ?

 

The hostage taking of innocent civilians, contravenes every single international law and treaty, of both wartime and peacetime; it contravenes every single moral and ethical dictum know to the civilised world …. yet you continually offer a perspective from the viewpoint of Hamas; one that deems that they should receive some kind of negotiated benefit from their illegal and barbaric acts.

 

I can only conclude that you either need to recalibrate your moral compass, or that you support a terrorist organisation, despite your multiple, lame, perfunctory denials of so doing.   

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Why are you continually supporting some kind of, in fact, any kind of, benefit, for Hamas, as a reward for taking innocent civilians hostage over 4 months ago ?

 

The hostage taking of innocent civilians, contravenes every single international law and treaty, of both wartime and peacetime; it contravenes every single moral and ethical dictum know to the civilised world …. yet you continually offer a perspective from the viewpoint of Hamas; one that deems that they should receive some kind of negotiated benefit from their illegal and barbaric acts.

 

I can only conclude that you either need to recalibrate your moral compass, or that you support a terrorist organisation, despite your multiple, lame, perfunctory denials of so doing.   

 

 

So you'd wipe them out if they don't surrender no matter the cost of civilian lives?

[Bkk Brian]

This is not how you make deals but then again Israel is dealing with terrorists:

 

Senior Hamas leader says operations like October 7 will 'guarantee a potential deal'

Senior Hamas official, Osama Hamdan, spoke to Iran’s state-owned PressTV about a potential deal for a ceasefire in Gaza as part of a hostage release negotiations. Similar to other leaders from the terrorist organization, he called for more “resistance” like the “Al-Aqsa Flood” massacre on October 7.

Hamdan reiterated that the lack of a deal was due to Israelis not being “committed to their agreements and promises,” despite the previous ceasefire reached for the release of hostages being broken by Hamas, as well as a long-term truce before the attack on October 7.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1708326714-senior-hamas-leader-says-operations-like-october-7-will-guarantee-a-potential-deal

[Eloquent pilgrim]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

So you'd wipe them out if they don't surrender no matter the cost of civilian lives?

 

If you would be kind enough to point out exactly where I said that, I will be very happy to reply to you; if you cannot point out where I said that, then I suggest you take the matter up with whichever authority was responsible for your English reading tuition …. many thanks, have a good evening.

 

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

If you would be kind enough to point out exactly where I said that, I will be very happy to reply to you; if you cannot point out where I said that, then I suggest you take the matter up with whichever authority was responsible for your English reading tuition …. many thanks, have a good evening.

 

 

I didn't allege that you said it directly. The tone of the post I replied to implied that is what you meant so I wanted to ask you if you thought that was acceptable or not?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I didn't allege that you said it directly. The tone of the post I replied to implied that is what you meant so I wanted to ask you if you thought that was acceptable or not?

 

Please explain in concise English, how the tone of my comment implied  that I wanted to wipe them out, no matter the cost of civilian lives.

 

The entire content of my comment was a criticism of another poster who's comments continually support the Hamas viewpoint, and nothing else.

 

I made no mention whatsoever of wiping out Hamas or the cost of civilian lives; you however, default to your usual posting methodology of replying to words that you incorrectly attribute to people, rather than what they have actually said; not sure if it is a simple lack of reading skills on your part, or if you are just a troll with no constructive contribution of your own to make  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Please explain in concise English, how the tone of my comment implied  that I wanted to wipe them out, no matter the cost of civilian lives.

 

The entire content of my comment was a criticism of another poster who's comments continually support the Hamas viewpoint, and nothing else.

 

I made no mention whatsoever of wiping out Hamas or the cost of civilian lives; you however, default to your usual posting methodology of replying to words that you incorrectly attribute to people, rather than what they have actually said; not sure if it is a simple lack of reading skills on your part, or if you are just a troll with no constructive contribution of your own to make  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

That's what I took from it. How about you answer my question precisely and then we will know for sure? It's a simple yes or no but feel free to add further comments.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

My answer to that is NEGOTIATIONS!!!!! And, I would suggest that would be started with exchanging some of the hostages for a ceasefire. What do you suggest be done right now?

Are they not negotiating now? A soon as Israel stops shooting, the negotiations will be over. 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's what I took from it. How about you answer my question precisely and then we will know for sure? It's a simple yes or no but feel free to add further comments.

That's because you're a Hamas apologist. 

 

If Israel wanted to wipe them out, no matter the cost in civilian lives, they would have been wiped out by now. 

 

I support wiping Hamas out, and I believe that as in all wars, some cost in civilian lives is acceptable. 

 

What do you think? 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, couchpotato said:

But the IDF have had 5 months to do this (ie: eliminate Hamas), and have really only managed to kill 30,000+ civilians, bust up a few tunnels and collapse a thousand buildings. Netans strategy is crap, and needs an overhaul..Hamas will never be defeated in this way. Of course IMHO

 

   Don't forget that all the 30 000+ civilians were all woman and children , waiting in queues to get drinking water 

Edited February 19 by Nick Carter icp

[Eloquent pilgrim]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's what I took from it. How about you answer my question precisely and then we will know for sure? It's a simple yes or no but feel free to add further comments.

 

You don’t seem to understand how open forum comments work. I made a reply to another poster; you then butted in accusing me of saying, or implying something that I neither said nor implied; yet when I asked you to explain how you thought that I made that implication, you are unable to answer, but somehow think that I am obliged to answer your completely unrelated question ….

 

Your inability to understand the written word would now appear to be the least of your many comprehension difficulties.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You don’t seem to understand how open forum comments work. I made a reply to another poster; you then butted in accusing me of saying, or implying something that I neither said nor implied; yet when I asked you to explain how you thought that I made that implication, you are unable to answer, but somehow think that I am obliged to answer your completely unrelated question ….

 

Your inability to understand the written word would now appear to be the least of your many comprehension difficulties.

 

Unless you are willing to disavow that you believe it';s acceptable to wipe out Hamas regardless of the cost to civilian life until you disavow it. I assert that a reasoble interpretation of your post is that you do in fact believe that. Your answers since then have demonstrated a lack of candour. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Unless you are willing to disavow that you believe it';s acceptable to wipe out Hamas regardless of the cost to civilian life until you disavow it. I assert that a reasoble interpretation of your post is that you do in fact believe that. Your answers since then have demonstrated a lack of candour. 

I support wiping Hamas out, and I believe that as in all wars, some cost in civilian lives is acceptable. 

 

What do you think? 

 

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Unless you are willing to disavow that you believe it';s acceptable to wipe out Hamas regardless of the cost to civilian life until you disavow it. I assert that a reasoble interpretation of your post is that you do in fact believe that. Your answers since then have demonstrated a lack of candour. 

Can you demonstrate how you asserted that from his post? 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Can you demonstrate how you asserted that from his post? 

He made it up. 

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

Any entity, group or country that want to see Israel gone, eradicated, massacred  in a blood shed 

I have no mercy or sympathy for,  Palestinians are allowing a terrorist group tied to Iran and other shady countries

and they're willing to lose tens of thousands of lives for a dream that will never happen, only to serve as 

pawn by others and they're too blind to see it...

Oh, absolutely! Because nothing says peace and understanding like advocating for eradication and bloodshed, right? It's truly heartwarming to see such empathy and compassion shining through. And yes, because we all know that demonizing an entire population based on the actions of a few is the epitome of rationality and fairness. Keep spreading that love and understanding!

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, WDSmart said:

At the cost of the 130+ hostages' lives? 

It seems that Israel are killing thousands of civilians, mostly women and children in order to kill Hamas, yet are not willing to hurt any Israelis in the process. Kind of sums up how Israelis value Palestinians.

[still kicking]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

It seems that Israel are killing thousands of civilians, mostly women and children in order to kill Hamas, yet are not willing to hurt any Israelis in the process. Kind of sums up how Israelis value Palestinians.

I totally agree with you 

[Wobblybob]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It seems that Israel are killing thousands of civilians, mostly women and children in order to kill Hamas, yet are not willing to hurt any Israelis in the process. Kind of sums up how Israelis value Palestinians.

My guess is that the Israelis value their own citizens and to prevent another 7/10 harsh measures need to be taken, actions have consequences! 

[Bkk Brian]

Video found in the Khan Yunis area some time ago. Just released after getting permission from family in Israel. The terrorists with their hostages who were only 4 years old and 9 months old at the time, along with the mother. 

 

BREAKING: @IDF releases security cam footage of the abduction of Shiri Bibas and her two little children, Ariel (4) and Kfir (9 months), on October 7. #BringThemHomeNow

 

IDF finds video of Bibas family in Gaza, ‘very concerned’ for mother, youngest hostages

The IDF on Monday released what it said was recently discovered footage showing mother Shiri Bibas and her two young children surrounded by gunmen in the Gaza Strip hours after they were abducted by Hamas-led terrorists on October 7, and expressed serious fears over the captive family.

The clip from surveillance cameras in Khan Younis showing Bibas holding Ariel and Kfir, who were 4 years and 9 months old, respectively, at the time of the kidnapping, is the first proof of life of the three members of the family since they were dragged into Gaza, IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said in a press conference. The boys’ father, Yarden, was kidnapped separately and is also still held in Gaza.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-finds-video-of-bibas-family-in-gaza-very-concerned-for-mother-youngest-hostages/

 

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It seems that Israel are killing thousands of civilians, mostly women and children in order to kill Hamas, yet are not willing to hurt any Israelis in the process. Kind of sums up how Israelis value Palestinians.

What a strange statement, there are Israeli's at risk of death everyday...................

[ezzra]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It seems that Israel are killing thousands of civilians, mostly women and children in order to kill Hamas, yet are not willing to hurt any Israelis in the process. Kind of sums up how Israelis value Palestinians.

Any so called ' freedom fighters' who fight for independence, who commit massacres of looting and burning,

beheading, mutilations, rape and kidnappings of ordinary citizens are nothing but a barbarians, and barbarians 

should be dealt in one way and one way only,

Those others who died in Gaza are either collateral losses, or those who harbored, aided and abetted the terrorist

and did nothing to raise concern and stop the madness.

 

NO ONE OF THE MANY ARAB/MUSLIM COUNTRIES LIKE OR WANT PALESTINIANS IN THEIR MIDST 

because they know all too well, that with the Palestinians you get those mongols Hamas and their sorts

to continue causing problems where ever they will be...

Edited February 20 by ezzra

[ezzra]

The real concern of Israel by giving the palestinians their own state is that it is a 1,000% certainty that Iran

and other countries who want to destroy israel will gain a foothold on Israel's borders just like Hezbollah 

did in poor, spineless lebanon, and that Gaza will turn into a weapons manufacturing hub

now that no one can say or do any anything, and this is something that Israel WILL NOT LIVE

WITH OR AGREE TO under any circumstances...

Edited February 20 by ezzra

[Rimmer]

A post citing an unapproved source has been removed also a reply

[WDSmart]

20 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Why are you continually supporting some kind of, in fact, any kind of, benefit, for Hamas, as a reward for taking innocent civilians hostage over 4 months ago ?

 

The hostage taking of innocent civilians, contravenes every single international law and treaty, of both wartime and peacetime; it contravenes every single moral and ethical dictum know to the civilised world …. yet you continually offer a perspective from the viewpoint of Hamas; one that deems that they should receive some kind of negotiated benefit from their illegal and barbaric acts.

 

I can only conclude that you either need to recalibrate your moral compass, or that you support a terrorist organisation, despite your multiple, lame, perfunctory denials of so doing.   

 

As i usually do, I'll respond to your post paragraph by paragraph...

I'm not SUPPORTING the benefit Hamas now has because they took hostages. I'm only suggesting ways Hamas could negotiate with Israel to ensure their release. They just aren't going to hand them over without some reciprocal action on the part of Israel.

Yes, Hamas committed a war crime when they took the hostages. Yes, they are terrorists. And, yes, I post what I think Hamas might consider to assure the safe release of the hostages. As I said above, they aren't just going to hand them over and say, "Excuse me." They'll want something in return.

I do not have a "moral compass," nor do I abide by any fixed set of morals. I act as I feel appropriate at the time. I do not support Hamas, and this post is another robust, conscientious declaration of that.

[WDSmart]

20 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not how you make deals but then again Israel is dealing with terrorists:

 

Senior Hamas leader says operations like October 7 will 'guarantee a potential deal'

Senior Hamas official, Osama Hamdan, spoke to Iran’s state-owned PressTV about a potential deal for a ceasefire in Gaza as part of a hostage release negotiations. Similar to other leaders from the terrorist organization, he called for more “resistance” like the “Al-Aqsa Flood” massacre on October 7.

Hamdan reiterated that the lack of a deal was due to Israelis not being “committed to their agreements and promises,” despite the previous ceasefire reached for the release of hostages being broken by Hamas, as well as a long-term truce before the attack on October 7.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1708326714-senior-hamas-leader-says-operations-like-october-7-will-guarantee-a-potential-deal

Yes, this is exactly what I said months ago. 

I THEORIZED that Hamas conducted their Oct 7 terrorist act in order to draw Israel into a war, knowing they would overreact and commit the atrocities against civilians that they have. This would eventually weaken the support of Israel's allies. This, and the hostages they would take, would force Israel into some kind of negotiations, which would, in the end, benefit the Palestinians.

I also THEORIZED that the Zionists in control of the Israeli government knew about Hamas' plans and allowed them to attack so they would have a justification to destroy Gaza and take it over. In this second case, if it is true, I think the Zionists underestimated Hamas' ability to invade Israel and did not expect such a horrific attack.

Edited February 20 by WDSmart

[Bkk Brian]

35 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, this is exactly what I said months ago. 

I THEORIZED that Hamas conducted their Oct 7 terrorist act in order to draw Israel into a war, knowing they would overreact and commit the atrocities against civilians that they have. This would eventually weaken the support of Israel's allies. This, and the hostages they would take, would force Israel into some kind of negotiations, which would, in the end, benefit the Palestinians.

You may have THEORIZED that but it was also well known and reported months ago.

 

36 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I also THEORIZED that the Zionists in control of the Israeli government knew about Hamas' plans and allowed them to attack so they would have a justification to destroy Gaza and take it over. In this second case, if it is true, I think the Zionists underestimated Hamas' ability to invade Israel and did not expect such a horrific attack.

I told you before, I don't entertain your conspiracy theories.

[transam]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Sometimes, theory becomes fact. This was also known about over a year ago.
Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan Over a Year Ago - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Israel was attacked most days, by different means.............

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Sometimes, theory becomes fact. This was also known about over a year ago.
Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan Over a Year Ago - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

No, no fact at all there, just a sick conspiracy theory..............

 

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

I also THEORIZED that the Zionists in control of the Israeli government knew about Hamas' plans and allowed them to attack so they would have a justification to destroy Gaza and take it over. In this second case, if it is true, I think the Zionists underestimated Hamas' ability to invade Israel and did not expect such a horrific attack.